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Seems like a thread worth having, maybe getting us all to reflect on ourselves a bit.
So we all have weaknesses or things we wish were stronger in our playing, but some inabilities are more relevant than others. For example, I don't have a good repertoire of chord melody arrangements, so that could be perceived as a weakness or inability - but it doesn't bother me that much as it's not that relevant to my goals and what I'm trying to sound like.
So the things that I feel are my biggest weaknesses right now that are actually relevant to the situations I find myself in:
1. Soloing in odd meters. I know what I need to be practicing to get better at this, but I just haven't been able to prioritize it enough yet - though I have made some strides. I can solo a bit in odd meters, but with a very limited rhythmic vocabulary, so my playing gets annoyingly repetitive.
2. Live sound when playing with a drummer - gelling with a band in terms of time, tone, and dynamics. I just haven't played enough gigs in my life (working on that tho) so there are a lot of subtleties about playing live that I can't tackle in the woodshed. Most sessions I do wind up being drummer-less.
3. Comfort with basic (8th note-oriented) vocabulary at higher tempos. This has troubled me for a while, it gets a little better as time passes. There was a time when I was more into the Martino style of playing mostly 8th notes, and at that time I made some strides with tempos but now that I'm going for a different sound I've found getting up there in tempo (and remaining fluid) to be pretty darn challenging.
There are a lot of other things too. I just played a gig last night so it got me thinking a bit.
Part of my motivation for this thread is that the usual style of communication on these boards is to give advice and talk practice strategies, etc, but I thought it would be a cool change of pace for us to just organize some thoughts on where we each feel like we need improvement.
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10-03-2011 01:48 PM
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Mine is... Groove.
I can play in 'time' but I'm trying to make a distinction between playing in time and projecting a strong groove and really swinging.
Here's what I'm talking about. This is from the fly me to the moon thread we did, several of us played over a BIAB backing track. We might have all played in time more or less but reg made that BIAB track groove and swing. IMHO, His version sounded so much better than the rest that I had to analyze it. I transcribed his solo... but my conclusion was the biggest difference between his and the rest was the way he swings.
I think this is one of the hardest areas to improve on. All I can think of is to listen to good examples of guys who swing like crazy, transcribe, sing along, try to copy on my guitar.
Anyone got other tips on how to improve ones groove and swing?
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Boy, I got lots!
I have a terrible memory for B sections...
I have a tough time playing straight Pat Martino-ish eighth lines at higher tempos...I can't seem to turn off the swing.
I have a lot of "licks" in my playing that I know I overuse.
I play way too much on fast tunes...
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Octaves. Just realized their importance in the last few weeks. I've been playing them as scales, stepwise, thirds, etc. Can really feel my left hand getting stronger. Other grips are starting to feel easier as a result...
Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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(1) Speed. Just can't hang with faster tunes. I'm working on a specific regimen right now, though, to hopefully correct this by the spring.
(2) Improvisation in odd time signatures. I guess I just don't feel 11/4, 7/4 or 5/4 yet. Working on it.
(3) Sight reading. Man, I suck at reading charts on sight. I have been working out of the Leavitt books for 10 min a day for a few months now...I'm not sure I've improved much, but I am getting marginally better.
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Good thread idea!
(Besides mastering Giant Steps by 12 years old) I have other things on my plate quite often.
I am no sight-reader. How do you get a guitar player to turn his amp down? Put sheet music in front on him! ...I can read and write charts, but sight-reading near the correct tempo ain't gonna happen here. Not sure if I'll invest time into mastering that skill, but I try to read/write when I can.
I am no shredder. Playing at 250BPM+ is really rough on me. I don't listen to too much fast tempo stuff these days anyhow. I am working on efficient picking/fingering techniques though. I have improved a lot this year already.
Complex tuplets are too rhythmically dissonant for me to grasp as of now- my brain goes nuts. Fitting 5, 7, or some 11 notes in the place of 4 or 6 if far from my reach. Just mastering all of the variations of 3 over 4 and 4 over 3 was quite a task for me considering the syncopated grooves that jazz is often based on. I'm really not sure if oddball tuplets will make it into my rhythmic vocabulary anytime soon.
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I agree, this is a great thread. What's really great is that some of you more accomplished players not only are willing to share your knowledge but you also share with us the negative aspects of your playing. That commands a great deal of respect from me.
In any case, here are my foibles.
1. Since I'm a solo player, my timing is not as solid as it should be. Sometimes I find myself speeding up and rushing the tune. The solution? I'm working with a metronome now.
2. My sight reading also sucks. Solution?--I'm practicing reading exercises from a reading studies book.
3. Moving voices during chord melodies sometimes give me fits and tangle my fingers up. Solution?--Working on chords slowly moving bass lines and inner voices should get me over the hump.
4. My speed when it comes to quick tunes. That, I'm working on trying to play along with as many recordings as I can.
That's all I can think of now. I know there are a lot more. One thing though. As I've mentioned before, I'm a non gigging jazz player. I'm not trying to improve my weak areas to get more gigs. I look at jazz guitar as a quest just for the knowledge and the ability to do something alot of other folks don't. It's sort of like a Zen thing.
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Likewise. It seems that any really great player must have a constant level of self-criticism in order to not "settle" for their first attempts at a new skill, etc. If the criticism gets out of hand, depression and negativity sets in and is counterproductive... There must be a balance! I certainly have been over-critical of myself to the point where I lose the drive to go on... Then I think, "hell, I've made it this far- might as well see where I end up!". Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
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Trying to stengthen up my ears
I want to be able to hear changes to standards without looking
getting better but its an uphill battle
very rewarding when you 'get' a change tho
Studying Teach me tonight ......rah
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hmmm, this is a can of worms for me.
1) I spend too much time trying to be a good improvisor.
2) I know many, many chords but only use a few of them when I play.
3) I need to work on more different styles (funk, country, rock, etc..).
4) I need to pay more attention to the bridge on songs that have them.
5) I need to spend more time on my reading skills.
6) I need to spend more time using concepts I already know and understand but don't use when I play.
7) I need to renew and rebuild my chord melody song vocabulary because it is my favorite way to play the guitar.
These are the things I always think about when I sit down to practise but I alway seem to gravitate toward either playing a lot of old standards or writing a new song.
wiz
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Shucks, howie, that #7 is another one for me...
Unless I have a gig coming up I fall way behind on my repertoire...
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A rather general lack of talent...
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Baloney! Don't sell yourself short. Coltrane is proof that success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Originally Posted by tonedeaf
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I agree with FatJeff. No quit. We all have talent. Originally Posted by tonedeaf
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Mine is definitely a lack of fretboard knowledge. By this I mean knowing the notes, and seeing how the shapes all fit together.
I know, I'm still a beginner.
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I have tons to work on, but the things that are really bugging me right now are:
-Repertoire: I don't know enough tunes, and it's becoming a hindrance now that I am playing more gigs that include jazz. I am trying to learn a few tunes a week.
-Technique: Specifically faster picking without tensing up.
-Confidence!: This is a weird one but...I am pretty confident at home with playalongs, but put me on the bandstand with serious players and I get really timid. This probably has to do with not having a large enough repertoire.
-Jazz Vocabulary: I can improvise and stay inside the changes pretty well (with the exception of altered sounds - working on it) but I find that my lines are fairly bland (unless I get lucky and I find myself fully in "the zone" but that happens very rarely). I feel that there are probably some stock phrases that I should learn which will help me build my own sound eventually. I don't want to play music by numbers ("insert II/V lick # 42 here") but I think assimilating some of those phrases could serve as a launch pad of sorts. Transcribing should help...I've done a lot of it but really should be doing one or more per week.
By the way, this is my first post. Been lurking for a while...great forum!
Cal
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I remember when I used to go to continuing education courses, there were two types of lecturers. The first type "never made a mistake". His cases were always perfect and never failed. His work was always beautiful. The second type showed his mistakes and failures as well as his successful cases. That's the guy who I respected a lot more because, not only did he show what could happen, he also taught how to correct the mistakes. He showed that although he was an expert, he was still human and things don't always go as planned. In other words, his ego never got in the way. Originally Posted by JonnyPac
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The biggest challenge for me, is finding as many opportunities to play with others, as often as possible. Unless you want to be a solo performer, you get to the point where you need to get out of the shed to get better.
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I am in the same boat as you cosmic. I am sick of playing with myself, (guitar).
Also I just don't know many tunes. I pull out the real book and comp through changes or learn the head, but soon I am working on something else and I more or less forget about any finesse that I acquired.
When I used to gig a lot, getting tunes down, to me was a perfectionist endeavor. But now I am more interested in the workings of the harmony so that I can improv better. But even with this, I make great progress, just to have it go to the wayside due to some new idea I start working on, and PUFF it is gone. I do revisit, but it takes a few minutes to regroup. So it is not truly ingrained.
Another weakness is reading. I can pull heads from a lead sheet. I can draw the timing out, but it is a process that is not natural. In other words I could not do what Reg or Matt does at a gig with a tune I do not know. I can read a chord chart like there is no tomorrow, if the chords are stated, not notated, but to read the melody fluently? Forget it. So that pisses me off. But I still plug away.
I also have a tendency to want to master everything that turns me on. This becomes very frustrating. I am to anal to know when to let it go so that I do not burn out. I burn out a lot.
Which leads me to my last big weakness. Like Jonny said, tuplets are a bitch when they get really advanced. I love counting weird groupings against, 3/4, 4/4,5/4, 6/8, I want to work more on this very much. To me it is fascinating. I am just not developed enough to pull it off YET. I wish I could pick someone's brain for an hour. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I am sure that I could list many more, but those are the big ones that I can see at the moment.Last edited by brwnhornet59; 10-04-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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My main weakness is forgetting. I always and I mean ALWAYS forget where I am in a tune and then I screw up.
Even if I know the tune backwards and even if it's one of mine....and it's usually one of mine....I will still forget where I am.
I can't stop thinking of other things. My brain won't concentrate on the one task at hand.
If I try very hard to name the next chord coming I can survive for a while but then I'll think something like "good job old son you're almost there" but then I have screwed up because I didn't think of the next chord.
I've done this all my life so I don't think there is a cure and it's not because I'm getting older.
I can remember lyrics but not chord progressions.
Hopeless case I think.
(no....I've never done drugs!)
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My weakness is my chordal playing for sure. When I start to play chordal things or harmonize simple melodies in a solo it sounds ok at first, but it falls apart rather quickly.
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Philco, Originally Posted by Philco
Have you tried to learn chord progression by their Roman Numerals instead of the chord names?
It's not an instant fix (at least not for me), but over time it has made it much easier for me to remember chord progressions. Actually, it gets to where it's not memorizing the progression it's more like you 'know' the progression. The ear get's to where it can hear the common progressions when you categorize progressions with Roman Numerals in your mind. Then you only have to remember that 10% or so of unusual changes that a tune might have (and I bet is you get better at it, that percentage drops and you can hear most anything).
In addition if you get lost, it's much easier to hear your way back to where the song is at.
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Can you sing the tune? I never forget a tune if I learn how to sing it. Don't have to be a singer to do this. But you've got to be able to reproduce the melody via humming/whistling/scatting, whatever works. I think you will find a new friend if you work on developing this. Scenario: You're walking out of the grocery store; your buddy walks by; he says, "Hey, how does 'Yardbird Suite' go?" Would you be able to give him every note, on pitch, perfectly? Originally Posted by Philco
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1. Repitoire: I feel like I can technically play anything I want to play, but keeping the memory of the changes, particularly on the bridges is tough for me. I know a handfull of tunes 100% and know a TON of tunes 80%.
2. Several people have mentioned it, but trying to get away from muscle memory and utilizing concepts that I already know, just dont incorporate for whatever reason.
3. Getting more "Roots," into my playing. I have the chops and I know a lot of licks and can play Benson style, or Pat Metheney, or Pat Martino style, but then I'll listen to Herb Ellis and be like, "Hey what was that?" I feel like I have a grasp of a lot of complex language, but that isn't always what is called for. I would love to get more of a Herb Ellis/ Barney Kessel influence in my playing.
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I was thinking the other day how this doesn't get emphasized that much on this board, but I think getting to play with others is, if not #1, then pretty close. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
We can all shed and work on concepts or time or ear training or whatever, but actual experience communicating with other musicians is what it's all about, unless if you're trying to just be a solo jazz guitarist.
There's a funny bias on here (and this is NOT a knock against the forum, just a natural observation) - I think a lot of us are on this forum because we don't have much of a jazz musician network in "real life." So we can get involved in all the solitary pursuits, but may forget that jazz is usually about communicating with a group, getting a good sound and feel live, rather than having hip licks, voicings, etc. I know a lot of members of this board don't gig too much, and the ones that do of course don't get to post as frequently - or probably don't care to; they have more direct outlets to discuss the music.
I know for me I hang out on message boards because I don't personally know all that many jazz musicians. I didn't go to school (although I am applying right now and hopefully will be going next fall) so I just don't have a huge network of players, I'm more so surrounded by little kids (my students) or my friends who are musicians but not jazz musicians.
I do get to gig and do sessions but it's not nearly frequent enough (which is a big part of the reason I'm going to school.) Maybe a gig a month and a couple sessions a month, which is shit - I want to (and should be) playing with people every day. I'm grateful that the people I do get to play with are (usually) pretty accomplished and great, and I learn a lot from them.
Anyway, I practiced a lot for a few years without getting to do sessions and I will say from experience that playing with people is a really different skill set. Things get revealed all the time that I just wouldn't have noticed or thought of while at home practicing.
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