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Hello. I'm experiencing some pain on both of my arms. It started about four days ago...I was going over lead sheets for about 3 1/2 hours on guitar one night, and then the next day I played piano for about 2 1/2 or 3 hours. The day after the piano playing it began to feel sore.
It's not the worst pain in the world, but it's annoying and is causing me concern.
I attached a little picture of where the pain is felt. The red indicates the pain, not that I am severely bleeding...lol...
Perhaps the most painful and annoying spot is on my left wrist, palm up (the bottom left drawing), and right on the right part of my wrist.
Also would like to mention that when I ring my wrists or flip my arms around quickly, it sounds like when your ankle cracks or something, but it makes that sound pretty much every time. Sometimes my ankle will do that- it's like an infinitely crackable crack. If that makes any sense...
I know guitar players struggle with this kind of thing. Not only is it messing with my ability to practice, but I have a gig or two this week that I'll be drumming on, as well as a rehearsal tonight. I don't want to be causing any long term damage, so I will have to go easy tonight or not play at all. The thing I'm rehearsing for tonight is a non paying open mic set with a band I'm playing with. I could tell them I will have to sit out this week. The other gig is paying, so I will need to play it.
Any feedback is welcome. Thank you!
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07-17-2011 08:03 PM
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go to a phone book
find the number for your family doctor
go see that doctor.
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I definitely would do the same thing. This kind of pain can be coming from a number of things and what to do about the pain is heavily dependent on that exact cause. Because it's on both sides at the same time, it's probably related to the activity you just went through if that's not your normal routine. Have you done some heavy lifting in that time before the pain started? Do you experience the pain only when you move a certain way? Is the pain the same all the time or does it get better or worse from time to time? These are all questions that a competent doctor will ask you. The doctor will be able to check your movements and do a few tests right up close and personal. Only then will he/she be able to pinpoint the trouble and give you the correct treatment. Any other way or delaying could result in a more serious problem. Don't risk the chance for permanent and untreatable injury. We can't make it any clearer than that. The stakes are too high.
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Go see an orthopedist as soon as possible.
Does your forearm muscle feel like it's throbbing, or does it feel very stiff? If so it could be tendonitis, I'm currently getting over it myself. Try icing your arm with the ice cube directly on your skin (don't use a paper towel or anything to cover it), and ice for at least 10 minutes. Take a NSAID medication as well (like Motrin, Aleve, or Advil) to curb the inflammation. If you go see your doctor early and do what he/she tells you you'll get over it quickly, but like coupe said, the longer you wait the worse it will get.
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ive always gone to get a good massage in the past and it has always helped.
lately i have been shedding alot more. i think i went from about 2 hours a day to 5 in the space of a few days. overdid it transcribing and playing along for hours.
i have been stretching/warming up more/icing/etc...and its helping. but what i have found is the muscle i have tired up is the the one that holds my left arm up from the elbow to the neck. i now have been playing with my arm kind of propped up to the neck using a perfect "guitar playing chair". working wonders when i just focus on playing as loosely as i can.
but yeah, if it keeps up, i wont hesitate to see somebody.
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a shot of cortisone and some rest can work wonders for stuff like that.
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The best thing about a cortisone shot is that you have to go to a doctor to get one -- and he will figure out what is wrong before he will give you one. (And if he doesn't talk to you about physical therapy/change of habits/rest/less invasive options/etc., you should try another doctor.)
Originally Posted by Buster Loaf
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yeah, cortisone is nasty stuff. kind of a last ditch...
i hope that you dont have the beginnings of CTS. so, you play the piano, guitar and drums? maybe you should think about curbing things a bit....
regardless, i vote with Jake and others - go see your doc.
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Should I ice it if it feels really taut?
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that's the question you ask a medical professional. Originally Posted by FattMusiek
I don't intend to sound rude or condescending to you at all. This is a guitar forum, and unless someone who posts here is a Medical doctor or other qualified professional to help you with your problem and you're taking risks if you start to try and cure yourself of whatever your problem happens to be. I understand that in many places seeking the help of a Doctor is a costly venture and many people the moment they need a Doctor start to stress about the costs. Also the cost of having surgery on your wrists and forearms for extended damage sure is a hell of a lot more then a doctor's appointment.
But you're talking about pain, in your hands. Yeah that sucks for your guitar playing but imagine how much more it would suck if you don't have a professional address your issue and holding a fork and knife becomes and issue in time.
Even if you went to a medical information forum they would tell you get call someone qualified in your area.
best of luck
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My orthopedist has done wonders. Any chiropractor that is an orthopedist is also mainstream. Originally Posted by Extrapolation
I've had multiple 'cures' for various muscular/skeletal problems and all have worked. Chiropractic/Orthopedist, active release, therapeutic massage etc. All my practitioners are associated with sports teams etc so they are entrusted to million dollar backs.
The sports medicine world is the best for muscular/skeletal stuff, the basic mechanical issues of the body.
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Im with bill, a regular family physician is a waist of money in this situation, I struggle with chronic tendonitis because i ignored it while i was young, get some rest, stretch your arm out and wiggle each finger for a few seconds to get some blood around the tendons before you play, you can safely take 3 advil a few times a day for a few months if you have too, just don't drink to much. Go to a good chiropractor and massage therapist. Massage and advil have definately been the most helpful for me, and of course you should take a look at your posture while playing.
Another thing that helps if you cant afford a massage, is have someone run a rolling pin up and down your forarms(not too hard). It loosens stuff up and moves the blood around without pulling on the tendons.
But most importantly, learn how to relax when you play, use the least amount of strength needed to sound the strings, and stay away from stimulants like caffeine, nicotine, and amphetamines, they make you hold more tension and exert more energy than needed. good luck
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I've got to totally disagree with you that a family physician is a waste. Bill never said that.True, an orthopedist may be a help BUT, you may need a family physician to refer you to a good orthopedist. There may be a protocol that you need to follow. Many times, a specialist will not take a patient off the street unless there is a referal from a competent family physician. My orthopedist does not and neither did my physical therapist. Besides, how do you know in this case that the orthopedist is the best solution? He may need a neurologist, a physical therapist, a pain control physician, a rheumatologist or a sports medicine specialist, all who may require a physician's referral before they'll take on a patient. Second, the recommendation of the rolling pin trick may have worked for you but it may be the worst thing in the world for another patient. Sure it may loosen things up but it may cause other types of underlying damage if a condition exists where that kind of thing could be contraindicated. Third, Advil may be the worst thing in the world to take if a patient is on a blood thinner, certain blood pressure medications or a number of other meds. Another type of anti imflammatory may be necessary. No, the stakes are way too high. Don't screw around with your health. That's what family physicians are for i.e. to be the first contact in getting the right treatment for your specific condition. Anything less is like taking your $10,000 guitar to your friend down the street who can fix a toaster. Originally Posted by voelker
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whatever you decide about medical or other treatment, you should know that TINNITUS is a possible side effect of taking aspirin or NSAIDs, especially long term usage. it is often not reversible and is accompanied by hearing loss. worse (if that's possible) is that the condition appears without much warning of damage being incurred. musicians have risk enough of this annoying (and, for us, debilitating) affliction already, without adding to the causes...
Google
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Its not like im saying "don't talk to a specialist." It's just my opinion that chiropractors and massage therapists are more specialized in muscles/tendons than a physician. I think the better analogy is... you can take your guitar to guitar center and let them outsource to a better luthier, or you can just go to the better luthier. If you don't want to do your research to find a good one then maybe your physician can refer you to one of his golf buddies, but all my physician told me was rest, stretch, ice, and advil. Then again i've been meaning to get a new physician. Where do you go to get a referal for a good physician? Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
Of course you have to be careful with everything, but it's my opinion that you don't need to worry about the rolling pin as long as it doesn't hurt, and light rolling may be less risky than massaging yourself which can pull or strain a tendon if you don't know what you are doing. A physical therapist used a similar rolling device on my leg when i had tendonitis playing soccer in college.
And Im sure the list of stuff you shouldn't take with advil is quite extensive, but if your taking one of these meds, I assume you know not to take advil.Last edited by voelker; 07-21-2011 at 07:52 AM.
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You're right that the chiropractor and the massage therapists are musxle oriented but the fact still remains that it's the job of a family physician to coordinate treatment for a condition that might involve a number of different specialties. It's different with the Guitar Center analogy because the better luthier isn't involved in the same kind of referral system in which physicians are involved. I hesitate to say this because I don't want to keep sounding like some kind of egotist but besides playing guitar, I'm a retired dentist specializing in prosthodontics, i.e., crowns, implants and all kinds of oral and facial replacements. I'm involved in the referral process especially when it comes to the diagnosis and treatment of head and neck pain. I only took patients by referral because of a number of things that were the responsibility of the general or family dentist which were unethical for me to adress without the consent of the general dentist. That we don't need to get into now. The point? There is a protocol for getting the best treatment that you can get and the family physician is your first point of contact. If you think your physician is not helping you, ask if there is a specialist that you can see for a better result. If he refuses, tell him/her that you want a second opinion. If again you are refused, get a new physician. Now, how do you get a new one? Fortunately, there is no Physician Center to deal with. You can check and see who's recommended by the state medical associations or talk to a bunch of friends and relatives to see who they like. Go from there. It may take some time but you'll find what you're looking for. Originally Posted by voelker
As far as knowing what medicines conflict with Advil, in so many cases, the patient does not know, was never told or forgot what can cause a bad reaction. If all of my patients had followed my instructions and recommendations like I had told them, I wouldn't have had as many headaches as I did. That's one of the reasons I got out of the field. I'd speak as clearly as I could with the patient looking right at me and agreeing with what I said only to have them come back on an emergency visit with an easily avoidable problem. It's just a fact of life. I hope I've helped you here. I definitely don'twant to appear confrontational but I just don't want to see anyone injured especially in a way that can destroy a musical career. Loving music and the guitar the way I do, I can'teven begin to imagine not being able to play anymore. It makes me cringe.
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Go to the Doctor! I'm fortunate in that my GP is a guitar player. He quickly writes the script for physical therapy. I have never had a cortisone shot because of this. On three occasions both sholders and my back. He understands what I'm going through since he plays himself.
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Here are a couple of things to think about:
1. In some people, the passageways through and around the bone that tendons use can sometimes be congentially misformed. If this is the case, the typical treatments might seem to work for awhile but in the long run the problem gets far worse. This kind of a problem requires a very different regime that stresses long-term management -- and only a qualified doctor can diagnose this.
2. It may not be tendonitis or carpel tunnel, it could be early onset arthritis. Again you want to know about this ASAP and only a qualified doctor can tell you.
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I went to an orthopedic doctor today and had Xrays taken of both arms. He did not seem to think it was anything serious. He did, however, send me home with a pamphlet about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, two wrist braces, and told me to wear those to bed, in addition to taping towels on my elbow areas to prevent me from sleeping a certain way.
I asked, "hm, and what about the popping. It kind of makes me cringe." He told me that "everyone pops" and basically not to worry about that.
Cubital Tunnel has to do with a a nerve in the elbow called the Ulnar nerve being agitated or pinched. The symptoms of Cubital Tunnel syndrome are:
Numbness or tingling in ring and little fingers, loss of finger or hand strength, inability to straighten fingers, and sharp sudden pain when elbow is touched.
To be honest, these symptoms don't really match with what I've been experiencing. I'd summarize my symptoms as:
Discomfort when moving wrists, unable to comfortably extend and get full motion of wrists due to pain and the muscle feeling tight.
Random pain up forearms when I move wrists a certain way, or spin arm around.
Cracking and popping that I can essentially do on command.
I spoke with the nurse and Xray technician longer than the Dr. So annoying how in and out some of them are. He asked me questions about how if I'm playing and drop my arm and stretch it, if the pain would go away. I told him, "Yeah, I do that, but this has only been an issue in this past week..."
I do remember sleeping exactly the way he demonstrated might have caused this pain, so I am definitely willing to sleep with the wrist braces on, and sleep with towels taped around my arms to prevent unnecessary flexing of my elbow. I don't really have the materials to do the latter just yet though, and I know it's going to make me overheat and be pretty uncomfortable for an already troubled sleeper.
But I'm not really content with the diagnosis. He didn't say outright, "you have this." It was too short. He did not mention taking a break from playing or pain medicine.
Am I just being a baby and thinking I have something that is worse than it really is? I'm not exactly a tough guy.
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I'm glad to see you got in with the orthopedist right off. The main thing is that if you're not sure about the diagnosis, if you feel you were rushed in and out, if you get no relief from the pain then try another doctor to get a second opinion. You can go directly to another orthopod since you want more info. That's exactly what I would do. In fact, that's what I did when I saw one doctor for various problems. (it was so long ago, I forgot what it was for) He rushed me in and out so fast that he missed treating one of the things I came in for in the first place. I immediately found a new doctor. He fixed me up very well. It's worth the extra bucks. Believe it or not, it was the "get 'em in and out quick" philosophy that contributed heavily toward my own retirement. I got tired of trying to quickly diagnose my patients' problem and get on with the treatment. That's how you miss things and that's why doctors get sued. Try someone else who is not so rushed. Get back to us so we can see how you're doing.
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FattMusiek
Stick with it. This is how it goes sometimes. I live in a ski area and we have some of the top ortho docs in the world. I know some of them, they are incredible doctors but many are lacking in the "social graces". Follow his advice, sometimes the problem is somewhere else than the pain. But if it doesn't work, don't be afraid to seek another opinion.
Don't worry about not being a tough guy -- this is not something anybody should "tough out".
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I would cut down drastically on the piano playing. Take a few days totally off.
The icy hot gel works, also take some aleve.
Earlier this week I started feeling a similar pain as you in my right wrist.
I took it easy for a few days and now I am fine.
The danger is if you ignore this pain and keep on practicing a lot.
Just warm up well, take breaks often. Working out, drink a lot of water, eat healthy and get enough sleep. If that doesn't work, I would see a specialist.
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makes sense, thanks Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
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Not a problem, voelker. Where music is concerned, I hate to see anyone sidelined, taking them away from the thing they love the most. I know how I would feel if I couldn't play anymore. I don't even want to entertain the thought. By the way, my consultation fee is $120 but it's free for jazz guitarists Originally Posted by voelker
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Just wanted to update you all on where I'm at.
For weeks I was trying to play on a schedule, taking a 10 min after about 40 minutes of playing, not playing for more than 4 hours a day total.
But there were times where I couldn't stop myself from, say drumming after a band practice let out, and I would be very annoyed with myself the following days.
The pain, stiffness, etc, has been present the entire time. Finally I've decided to take a break from playing any instrument for an entire month.
When these problems started coming about, I mentioned I was playing guitar one night for like three hours, then the next day playing piano for 2 1/2 (probably with poor posture), but it just occurred to me that for weeks before and after that I had been drumming consistently. My body has been telling me "too much."
During this downtime, I can't expect sitting on my ass and simply not playing music to cure me; I have to be active in other ways, continuing the stretching and strengthening exercises. Today they mentioned the importance of doing cardio, which is scary to me because I have been so resistant to any real exercise for the last couple years.
Just figured I'd let you all know what's going on. I figure a lot of you have gone through a similar regimen.
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