Bobby's keys to sounding good

[Bobby Timmons]

1. Play soundly
2. Get into it
3. Decide how you want to represent yourself

This came to me from analyzing why I thought some of my playing sounded bad. The exact opposite of those points lol. When I think recordings of mine sound bad, it's always because it's played unsoundly, it doesn't have any excitement to link you with the music, or it's a poor or no choice of creative style.

3 I actually got from a Friedman interview and I thought it was awesome advice. I still believe in playing fundamentally sound (utilizing some theory) but you must choose a creative style that you stand behind and that can potentially be attractive to the listener, rather than only using mechanics and getting lost in that.

So yeah, Ime, I think if you follow these 3 simple guidelines they get you to sound good if you're having trouble putting your finger on what's going wrong.

Friedman interview. They start with a minor jam and the question is at 2:25.

[pauln]

Don't just not exclude your ear from the process
Don't just include your ear in the process
Make your ear the whole process

[Bobby Timmons]

I no like the all ear program. I would rather make my entire brain the whole process.

[jazznylon]

Number 3 makes sense. I should probably keep on maining my 10 string tuned to the augmented triad. I've gotten more from busking with it than on my regular 6 string.

[supersoul]

Bobby Keys and Keith Richards sounding good

[corpse]

Number 3 makes sense. I should probably keep on maining my 10 string tuned to the augmented triad. I've gotten more from busking with it than on my regular 6 string.

This sounds really cool. Do you have any examples to share?

[jazznylon]

This sounds really cool. Do you have any examples to share?

On this thread

I need ice on my hand

[DawgBone]

Save for sour notes and overplaying I mostly associate bad sounding playing, be it rhythm or lead, to poor application of rhythm. If you're playing leads and your notes aren't sitting or hitting/falling in that groove it sounds bad. Since I can play blues reasonably competent I find my biggest lead guitar failures are tied to bad timing of the notes over the rhythm. Rhythm is everything because even very simplistic leads and licks can sound absolutely boss if they sit in the groove correctly. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but you don't have to be a great player to sound great if you have great timing. Then again, great timing is the mark of a great player!!!

Confusing!!!

[Bobby Timmons]

Yes rhythm and time feel is a huge part of it. Not everything though. That's a subcategory of play soundly. I want everything to be good - rhythm, melody, and harmony. It doesn't sound like jazz to me without all 3.

[mr. beaumont]

There's really something to playing with confidence and conviction.

I show my art students all the time how a bold, confident line, even if drawn "incorrectly" can look great because of it's conviction. Commit to that line, be it a musical line or a visual one.

[Bobby Timmons]

^ Yep. 2 on my list.

Number 3 makes sense.

Yep. Totally got me out of the paralysis of only playing the form mundanely rather than being expressive in the way you want which elevates the music.

[pauln]

Save for sour notes and overplaying I mostly associate bad sounding playing, be it rhythm or lead, to poor application of rhythm. If you're playing leads and your notes aren't sitting or hitting/falling in that groove it sounds bad. Since I can play blues reasonably competent I find my biggest lead guitar failures are tied to bad timing of the notes over the rhythm. Rhythm is everything because even very simplistic leads and licks can sound absolutely boss if they sit in the groove correctly. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but you don't have to be a great player to sound great if you have great timing. Then again, great timing is the mark of a great player!!!

Confusing!!!

A bit of the confusion was diminished as little while back with an analysis of how musicians playing with a fat beat width (sounding notes deliberately leading and lagging the beat) avoided sounding like they had lost the groove/pocket.
For Jazz and other forms for which the upbeats (syncopation) play a fundamental role, it was noticed those who played their sounded upbeats in synch with the pace achieved and maintained the groove/pocket sound in spite of employing a fat beat width for their other notes.

[digger]

... but you must choose a creative style that you stand behind and that can potentially be attractive to the listener, rather than only using mechanics and getting lost in that.

I'm glad you mentioned the listener, and playing something attractive to them. I'm with you on this. Not sure it gets much attention/priority sometimes.

Derek

[Bobby Timmons]

[ccroft]

This fleshes out the 3 things a bit. I think it's pretty solid:

[DawgBone]

This fleshes out the 3 things a bit. I think it's pretty solid:

Thanks for posting this.

[Bobby Timmons]

Good advice from a great player. I like a lot of the points such as being relaxed, using space, playing deliberately, use different musical effects etc.

I really disagree with the idea of playing only what you hear though. For me it works much better to be able to conceive things to the best of my ability which involves mechanics. An example is I never would have heard up BH 6th/dim, I had to work it into my playing formulaically. But it's the best my playing has ever been with it after I got command of it and can use my ear with it.

[ccroft]

....after I got command of it and can use my ear with it.

That's what he's talking about. You must know Chick did plenty of study.

Also, if I remember correctly, he's talking about performance. Like...putting your study into action.

I think #1 is just a setup for #2. They should be one item.

[2bornot2bop]

Still, there’s only one Chick Corea. He was influential getting me started 34 years ago. And still learning…

[DawgBone]

A bit of the confusion was diminished as little while back with an analysis of how musicians playing with a fat beat width (sounding notes deliberately leading and lagging the beat) avoided sounding like they had lost the groove/pocket.
For Jazz and other forms for which the upbeats (syncopation) play a fundamental role, it was noticed those who played their sounded upbeats in synch with the pace achieved and maintained the groove/pocket sound in spite of employing a fat beat width for their other notes.

Pauln, I have beent thinking about this since you posted it, specifically the last sentence. I think I just found what I been missing in some of my playing. Thanks for sharing it.

[pauln]

Pauln, I have beent thinking about this since you posted it, specifically the last sentence. I think I just found what I been missing in some of my playing. Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks; you are lucky! For most of us the last things
we find are the ones we did not know were missing.

[DawgBone]

Thanks; you are lucky! For most of us the last things
we find are the ones we did not know were missing.

When I was growing up, pre-internet, the difficulty was finding or affording info related to guitar, tone, gigs, etc. Now that we have the internet, the difficulty has been finding GOOD info related to guitar, tone, gigs, etc in sea of information. How do you know if it's good if you're just learning about it? You could theoretically spend a lifetime of getting nothing but bad info. There are a lot of bad teachers on youtube. I would say MOST of them are bad. I've done a lot of stuff wrong then only later some small bit of info comes along as a revelation. I wish someone could've shared it all with me in totality from the get-go. A lot of mistakes would've been avoided.

[Bobby Timmons]

DB, have you read my discovery about how to conceptualize time feel?

I made a huge jump after learning this. The lesson was posted by PatWD. The summary is my last post in the thread, #187. And the clip before that is the demo.

How to theoretically explain good time feel?

[DawgBone]

DB, have you read my discovery about how to conceptualize time feel?

I made a huge jump after learning this. The lesson was posted by PatWD. The summary is my last post in the thread, #187. And the clip before that is the demo.

How to theoretically explain good time feel?

I'll give it a good look, thanks Bobby.