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I've been reading a lot of Bird, Trane and Gilmore interviews and anecdotes and by all accounts they practiced crazy hours.
Has anyone here ever practiced this much over a long period of time? I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts as it seems almost unattainable to me if I'm being honest. 7-8 Hours is the most I can get in a day and that's really pushing it. Is it even beneficial past a certain amount of hours? Thanks!
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11-29-2024 06:14 PM
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I did the 6-7 pretty regularly in college.
In my old age I’ve realized that a lot of that wasn’t productive.
I guess it’s cool if you have the time, but if you aren’t practicing effectively and especially if your technique isn’t together, it would be counterproductive. Injuries, exhaustion, etc.
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Yes indeed.
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
These days I'm very much of the opinion that as soon as I feel tired, I stop and take a short break. So each time I pick up the guitar I practice on average for 30-40 minutes, sometimes more if I feel I can.
I have gone through periods where I've written out ambitious practice schedules, but they often don't work out because they end up being arbitrary and various variables affect how well and the duration and quality of the practice that occurs. I do have a practice schedule, but honestly I'd say these days I do at most 3 hours a day, but usually less.
But this is just me...
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Well, it is about at 6ish hour when the brain is going to stop playing along. That goes with average human.
So, when you got something important to practice that doesn't require any focused pondering, it is fine I guess.
Practicing 12 hours.. yeah, but first, the mindful part, should be used carefully.
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I wouldn't practice guitar 12 hours a day. That would be pretty harsh on the hands.
Be smart and organize your practice regimen as effectively as you can and do little sessions as often as you can.
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Used to practice for 14 hours regularly at college (sleep deprivation woo!). My psychologist recommends 4 hours after I got diagnosed with ocd. Studies also seem to back up on the 4 hours thing being ideal for the most gains. After that there is a steep decline in diminishing returns to the point that there is no point continuing further.. or so science says
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So that's the standard 40 hour work week (with occasional overtime) applied to playing music, perfectly fine if you can pay the bills while doing it. You would of course want to take regular work breaks to remain productive, just as you would on a job (one you like anyway).
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I will also say that I have found enormous comfort in friends and loved ones and the like. So I’ve found a couple hours spent keeping that garden watered to be worth more than the practice time would’ve been. I have not always been good at this.
Three hours practicing and a movie with a friend is greater than or equal to five hours practicing.
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I think time is very deceptive way to express the amount of practice. I'd like to measure it in "focus units" instead. But that'd be a bit loony.
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I have my practice divided up into 15-20 minute chunks. Sometimes 10 depending on how much time I have that day. Originally Posted by emanresu
I leave my phone in the other room and set a kitchen timer in my practice room. I only take a break or check my phone when the timer goes off.
I’m not measuring productivity units or anything, but if my two hour practice routine takes me three hours, I’ve learned something about how I spend my time.
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Most humans can't focus that long.
Ill take 1-2 focused hours over 8 noodling.
Yeah yeah, Trane did this, Bird did that. How many Tranes and Birds have we had? Those guys are once in (several) generation type talents.
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In college I would call it the 'f urself program' lol. My college friends would criticize it.
Obviously, the harder you work, the more results you'll get. But the side effects can range from benign of getting diminishing returns, to serious of injuring yourself or burning yourself out.
So don't friggin injure yourself. If you want to be aggressive, do 4-6 hours a day and create an efficient program depending on your goals. A good exercise is to record yourself every day. You can do all the jamming in the world and it can still suck. Recording shows you exactly how it sounds and forces you to play as well as you can.. Do this every day and you improve.
Oh yeah.. get a damn teacher or join Open Studio. You will get better. Everyone is mad at studying with a teacher for some reason.
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Trane and Bird were known to partake some drink and drugs,so maybe they practiced for 6 hours but it seemed like 12,just throwing it out there.
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^ I thought that exact same thing. If they were fucked up all the time, how the f did they practice for 13 hours without passing out? I call bs. When I was drinking, I would practice for 30 minutes and then take a nap. How tf do you practice for 13 hours like that?
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Practicing is not about accumulating hours. If it makes you feel more accomplished, then go for it.
But just what IS your practicing routine over those 12 hours?
Are you addressing the ability to discern harmony, to build a creative set of fresh routines so you can work your options at a slow speed (speed of thought) and at a higher speed (speed of connection) and at performance speed (speed of sound being created with nuance and awareness of touch)?
How does this practice routine address the real time issue of fatigue creating an imbalance in solo composition? Many players actually practice a prejudiced and imbalanced emphasis on note creation and neglect creative thought that is the nucleus of good soloing.
Can you hear the form of any tune, recognize the tonal areas to know how to effectively play through them? (You must be able to do this, and it takes a lot of gradual practicing to even be aware of this essential foundation. It's called ear training.)
Are you under the impression that merely stockpiling hours will move you towards being able to solo? Do you want speed? Agility? Melodic individuality? Did it occur to you that to play fast (just one goal) is the product of playing weeks or months at a slow speed?
Are you taking into account that the fatigue you can cause your hands can damage your muscles resulting in down time far exceeding those 12 hours? A teacher I knew saw so many promising and high level students come to lessons with muscle damage from over practicing that week. He warned them at the start of the semester that any lessons missed because of practice damage, or time down due to overpracticing would result in a half grade drop in their marks. This was the only thing he could do to try to impress upon them the futility of this approach.
Did you know there's actually a slow process by which a student learns what they actually need to practice, and that is moved along profoundly by immersion in the music itself through understanding the process of hearing form, integrating the appropriate syntax, kinesthetics and lexicon so your playing doesn't fall into reenforcing robotic noodling?
How long is your practice routine now? What areas of your playing are you hoping will improve? Can you listen to a solo by Sonny Rollins and pick out 5 things that make his solo great that you've never even thought of? Do your realize that by doing this alone, it will put you in a state of perception where you can plan a steady course of practice and study that can take you through 3 months of productive and progressive practice and you'll stand a much greater chance of coming out as a better improvisor?
You talk of being inspired by Parker, Trane, ...Miles. How much Lester Young have you listened to, Coleman Hawkens, Don Byas, Dexter... Do you know what about THESE players inspired Parker to practice that long? For them, it wasn't about the hours, or becoming great. It was an obsessive love for the feeling, the swing of this music; the ability to engage their imaginations and create their own mark. THAT was what drove them to "do the time".
You may be at a point where you know all these things, and you're ready to commit yourself to a course of study that will take you to the next level.
I'm just saying that learning to be a serious player is a lot like becoming a really good cook. You can't think that because you've been cooking dinner for yourself for 5 years that you can prepare Thanksgiving dinner solo by buying all the fixin's the day before and pulling an all nighter before all your family and friends arrive.
It takes a lot of time and patience to learn to use time and patience.
Those giants who inspire you had a lot of time, and a lot of ideas learned over a lot of time before they started to practice like that.
They also had no phones, social media, distractions and some serious easily available drugs to keep them on their trajectory.
Do what you need to. If you stay true to it, you'll get there. Keep this level of excitement up over the next 6 months, commit like Dizzy did, or Keith, or Rocky Balboa. Don't expect miracles after 12 hours. Look for them after 12 months.
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I always tell people that the first 30 years are the hardest. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Towards the end of college I practiced with guitar in hand 8 hrs a day. Add to that hours of class time studying harmony, arranging etc and you could call that a 12 hour day. I found that practicing 8 hours in the day and playing 4 hours that night was physically challenging, and that my chops would be kind of worn out by the time of the gig, so I began to practice only a couple hours or not at all on gig days.
Work your way up to long practice sessions gradually. It took me YEARS to work up to an 8 hour practice day. I would lose concentration after a half-hour to an hour at first. However, I was still spending many more hours daily studying and thinking about music: theory classes, taking lessons, composition studies, orchestration classes, music history, ensembles, piano studies, and so on. After some years of serious effort I worked up to 2-3 hours of focused guitar practice in addition to other music studies. I took two years to complete my senior "year" as a college music major because I took fewer classes in order to make time for instrumental practice; by then, I had completed most classwork and was focused on performance and technical skills. Something interesting happened once I crossed the 4-5-hours-daily mark: practice became meditative, an "alpha state" activity that was both focused and rejuvenating.
As others have pointed out, the idea of productive practice versus just logging hours is a crucial one. There's no point to wearing out your hands if your mind is not engaged. You want to connect muscle memory to aural skills and your mental model of harmony and theory. Sheer hours with instrument in hand won't do this. Related coursework, learning tunes, gigging and teaching will do this. As others have said, have a practice routine; keep notes on things to work on, insights you have, and so on. They are all ways to keep practice focused and productive. Sure, a certain amount of repetition is necessary to learn scales, arpeggios or performance of a tune, and that is good. But pay attention, stay focused and go slowly enough to get things right instead of ingraining mistakes. If you need a break, take one. Find ways to make it fun, not a burden.
Nowadays (30+ years out of uni), I don't play more than 1-3 hours/day unless I am learning tunes for a gig on a deadline. I skip days, too, without beating myself up too much over it. Taking a break can refresh perspective, physical chops and level of interest.Last edited by starjasmine; 11-30-2024 at 01:20 AM.
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The best practice is live performance, serving the only
environment and conditions that reveal all, everything.
Practice means playing the guitar - with the hands-on.
Doing any of the following things is not really practice.
Adjusting pedals searching for the right settings
Adjusting guitar and amp knobs and switches
Reviewing your elaborate practice schedule
New strings, action, intonation, tuning
Searching for instructional videos
Searching for backing tracks
Diversions in tone chasing
Marking/writing anything
Looking for your set list
Reading text in books
Adjusting your strap
If you actually practice continuously, about one hour is
enough for one session. Two sessions with a couple of
minutes of break between is fine. I like to practice until
I discover something new; that usually happens within
an hour. If you are not finding something new, avoid a
temptation to extend practice, because risk of damage
is so unneeded. Mind is what gets better with practice.
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I used to play and practice guitar all day for many years. From one point on, the flow of your playing reflects the time you spend with the instrument daily, and the time you spend focused on music also.
It can be dangerous for your hands and body though, if not used to it, or if you have bad practicing habits, are out of shape, don't take breaks, practice illogically etc..
Often on vacations I do it again, play most of the day... best summers ever.
7-8 hours a day is super, however if one has the passion to practice that much they probably want to keep playing. In my 20s I had trouble going to sleep because I couldn't wait to wake up and play guitar the next morning again!
(I actually slept every other night)..
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You make the good point that a lot of activities related to playing don't constitute "practice." However, I think it is worth clarifying that an activity "not being practice" does not make it valueless. Just be clear with yourself about how you are spending your time. Fiddling with pedals isn't going to help you master scales, arpeggios and repertoire. But I'd suggest that the following items are absolutely critical to have nailed down BEFORE the gig. Nobody wants to hear bad tone, out-of-tune or "what should we play next?" at a gig. So a gigging musician need to get these things done, whether or not they call these items "practice." Originally Posted by pauln
I have to disagree 100% with "marking/writing anything". Marking/writing an idea instead of repeatedly practicing it incorrectly promotes efficient and effective practice. I am guilty of just repeating things until I get them right instead of taking a moment to put the guitar down and write out what I'm trying to do so that I can master it with less repetition. It's one piece of advice I'd give myself to improve my practicing. Originally Posted by pauln
There is nothing wrong with reviewing your practice routine occasionally. Having a list of things to work on keeps you focused, and it also gives you a way to track progress. Getting some satisfaction out of checking an item off the list is a small, hard-won bit of affirmation in what otherwise may seem like a Sisyphean task.
While you might not call it "instrumental practice time," activities that develop your conception of music do improve your musicianship and your playing abilities. Reading a harmony book to understand the relationship of key, mode and scale is not a waste of time; this knowledge allows you to spend less time memorizing scale patterns and more time making music.
Instructional videos... well, some are great and some just plain suck. Having a bit of formal education might help you separate the wheat from the chaff. For example, the TILFBH and Cracking the Code videos are great. Pretty much any video that is "Pro musician reacts to <fill in name of song or musician here>" or "Do this one weird trick ..." is X minutes of your life that you should have spent on any of the activities listed above :-)
I don't use backing tracks, but if you like to practice (or gig) that way, searching for a track that is useful is not a waste of time.
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Point taken, practice and preparation
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I got tendonitis that time (in 1995) I did a non stop 12 hour practice session and had frequent relapses for the following 6 years.
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Yes, well, there you have it! Originally Posted by jazznylon
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I practice the guitar a lot, but I don't count the hours.
If I want to learn something, I practice until I can do it... :-)
I think the most important thing is to practice or play every day.
Listening to masters' albums is also an 'exercise".
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I made some good gains practicing 8-10 hours per day. My hand is good for about five or six these days otherwise multiple days of 5-6 hours gives me some forearm pain.
pauln said that the best practice is live performance and I agree. Nothing really improved my chops like having to do it live in front of a crowd. I've done two and three 3 hour shows a day, that'll really build you up. I am fortunate I was able to move here and do hundreds, maybe a thousand gigs. I wish it was two or three thousand. One of these days I'm going to become a very dangerous person with a guitar.....
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