Thumb pain

[pingu]

Hi guys ,

I’ve developed some pain on
the top of the last bone of my
fretting thumb

just south of the bottom of the nail

anyone else had this ?
and know what may be causing it ?

I can’t find anything I’m doing that
brings it on particularly ….

[Bop Head]

Hi guys ,

I’ve developed some pain on
the top of the last bone of my
fretting thumb

just south of the bottom of the nail

anyone else had this ?
and know what may be causing it ?

I can’t find anything I’m doing that
brings it on particularly ….

Is it in the middle under the bottom of the nail or in one of the corners? The latter are important acupuncture points.

EDIT: Seems like there are several points and in the middle as well.

http://www.heilpraktiker-taunus.info...aussenhand.png

[pingu]

about there ….

[lammie200]

Any pain in my fretting hand over the years has been remedied by thicker profile necks. Basically they limit the amount of clamping movement. Less movement equals less stress on joints. I have ended up playing my Fender-style partscasters more than my other guitars because they all have custom profile neck thicknesses to my specs. Ideal profile for me is a C-shape that tapers from about 0.88" at the first fret to about 0.97" at the twelfth fret. The great thing is that after playing necks with these specs I don't suffer as much when I switch to slightly slimmer profiles which some of my Gibsons have.

[pauln]

Did it arise after learning new, stretchy, unusual chords?
What part of your thumb contacts the back of the neck?
Tip, distal pad, distal joint (classical "on bone"), or other?

[Doug B]

Could be the beginning of arthritis? How old are you?

Doug

[pingu]

Could be the beginning of arthritis? How old are you?

Doug

67

[pingu]

Did it arise after learning new, stretchy, unusual chords?
What part of your thumb contacts the back of the neck?
Tip, distal pad, distal joint (classical "on bone"), or other?

no new stretchy chords

two thumb positions
Eb maj7


Bb11

[Doug B]

67

I'm 70 and began to get arthritis about 4 years ago. It's possible...

[Donnd]

Fretting with the thumb looks like it could be the issue. Regardless, it’s best to take at least a good week break to see if the pain resolves.

[RJVB]

Fretting with the thumb looks like it could be the issue.

Agreed, it looks like that position could be causing some pressure on the painful spot. Still, that pressure comes only from the skin and tissue covering the bone, plus the pull on the tendon(s) attached between the joint and the base of the nail.

Supposing you can press down on the tip of your thumbnail without pain, does it hurt if you bend the thumb passively as far as it will go, keeping it relaxed?

The spot looks a bit odd as a place for playing-related injuries though. We do a lot of things with our hands that we don't think to much about, and regularly I find myself with a sore spot or a hematoma from something I did (possibly by accident) that didn't really register at the time. A classical case for me is the handle mechanism for opening the Velux roof/trap windows in my bedroom and study: the design really invites using a phalange for leverage and developing sore spots.

[Peter C]

From one of the photos I'm thinking (very) high action and heavy string gauge. Ouch

[pamosmusic]

Fretting with the thumb looks like it could be the issue. Regardless, it’s best to take at least a good week break to see if the pain resolves.

Yeah ... this really works for some people but I never teach students to use their thumb because it can be really rough on that joint, as well as the wrist. Not to mention it tends to be something people arrive at because they don't like barre chords. Anyway ... if that position is giving trouble, I would bag it and find another way to play it.

Also the regular fretting, the thumb is at sort of an odd angle and it also just looks like is pressing on the strings really hard.

When I was having tendinitis issues, I used to play "pianissimo days." It sounds silly but try playing as quietly as possible for a while. You'll notice your hands loosen up immediately, even the left (which makes no sense but it's a thing). As you try to start getting your dynamic range back, try and retain that loose feeling. Go back to super quiet every time you feel that tension creep back in.

[RJVB]

even the left (which makes no sense but it's a thing).

You'd think but actually it is, for 2 reason. Symmetry aside (making you use similar amounts of force on both sides) there's also the fact that heavy (steel) strings can take a considerable amount of force to fret down cleanly when you're playing loudly. Otherwise they'll happily make your fingers move...

[pamosmusic]

You'd think but actually it is, for 2 reason. Symmetry aside (making you use similar amounts of force on both sides) there's also the fact that heavy (steel) strings can take a considerable amount of force to fret down cleanly when you're playing loudly. Otherwise they'll happily make your fingers move...

Well the symmetry thing for sure, but that's just a habit we have to break. The same way a pianist has to develop finger independence. Though also––and maybe this is the classical dude in me––you don't really have to play terribly hard to play loud either. Pick speed rather than force, which seem like the same thing but aren't.

But you don't have to press down harder to play loud. That's mechanically not a thing. We do it but we don't have to do it.

[RJVB]

But you don't have to press down harder to play loud. That's mechanically not a thing. We do it but we don't have to do it.

Some people can also just turn a dial or push a pedal to play louder or softer.

Re-read what I wrote about holding down heavy strings that vibrate. If we're talking about actual sound pressure that can only come from a wider vibration amplitude which means more kinetic energy in the string and more effort to keep the endpoint fixed if you also want the note to sound clean.

On a classical guitar that isn't much of a thing, indeed. A bit more if you're playing a 0.044" steel 5th and 0.057" steel 6th. Doesn't mean you need a vice-like grip, but in my experience there's a very evident and mechanical "thing" between volume and fretting force required.

[pamosmusic]

Some people can also just turn a dial or push a pedal to play louder or softer.

Not really how that works. Considering there is usually dynamic range across a single phrase. Gotsta learn to make that music with your hands.

Re-read what I wrote about holding down heavy strings that vibrate. If we're talking about actual sound pressure that can only come from a wider vibration amplitude which means more kinetic energy in the string and more effort to keep the endpoint fixed if you also want the note to sound clean.

I mean ... okay ... but that amount of force is marginal. One other thing I did when I was having tendinitis issue was practice while only lightly touching the strings––not attempting to press them down, but just resting my fingers on the strings. What I found was that I would accidentally fret notes more often than not. You have to remind your hands how little work they have to do. If you don't spend considerable time doing that, they (and you) are likely to forget.

On a classical guitar that isn't much of a thing, indeed. A bit more if you're playing a 0.044" steel 5th and 0.057" steel 6th. Doesn't mean you need a vice-like grip, but in my experience there's a very evident and mechanical "thing" between volume and fretting force required.

And of course playing huge gauge steel strings requires more force than playing light electric strings, etc etc, but the difference between playing loud and quiet on any of them is marginal and shouldn't require significant left-hand strength.

[pingu]

From one of the photos I'm thinking (very) high action and heavy string gauge. Ouch

TI jazz swings 13
yes I like a highish action
I think I pick quite hard , I like that
sound , but hate any kind of fret rattle
or buzz

I’ve just had 10 days off playing
and indeed the pain has subsided

I’ve just noticed that I’ve got it
slightly in my right hand thumb too !
(in the same exact place)

so maybe not guitar related at all
feels like the tendons under there
are moaning , an age thing probably

Thanks for all the input and ideas guys

[pamosmusic]

TI jazz swings 13
yes I like a highish action
I think I pick quite hard , I like that
sound , but hate any kind of fret rattle
or buzz

Yeah man ... you might just have to make some compromises.

[nyc chaz]

My fingers have had just about every issue and looking at the spot in the photo i can say pretty confidently it is arthritis.I get that now and again in my left index and middle finger.Soaking in warm water or using something like Biofreeze can help. If on the other hand it is a joint problem,best to go to a hand doctor and see what he says.I haven't played pain free for many a year,with arthritis it's best to just keep playing.Arthritis never stopped Les Paul.

[RJVB]

the difference between playing loud and quiet on any of them is marginal and shouldn't require significant left-hand strength.

I find it not so marginal at all. As in, noticeable enough because I often have remind myself that the low strings need more force to sound cleanly (when playing barrés) and also that I often wonder if I shouldn't check if the guitar really wants such heavy strings to sound.
But apparently my point wasn't clear: any time when you need even a little bit more force under certain conditions there's a risk that you start using that force all the time (and more over time).

[pamosmusic]

I find it not so marginal at all. As in, noticeable enough because I often have remind myself that the low strings need more force to sound cleanly (when playing barrés) and also that I often wonder if I shouldn't check if the guitar really wants such heavy strings to sound.
But apparently my point wasn't clear: any time when you need even a little bit more force under certain conditions there's a risk that you start using that force all the time (and more over time).

Youre talking about two different things. Of course a bigger string requires more force. You were talking about playing louder or quiet on the same string requiring more force with the left hand.

That was what I was saying was marginal at most.

[RLetson]

I'm an old guy with some typical old-guy hand issues, but the discomfort I experience is located either at a joint (particularly the left metacarpal thumb joint) or in a muscle (particularly the big abductor at the base of the thumb). I don't recall ever feeling any discomfort in the spot marked in the photo--though I do know a bit about referred pain, so maybe the source isn't exactly where it reads out. The closest likely spot for damage or stress is the interphalageal joint (Ain't Google wonderful? Pictures and everything.)

In any case, I've found that one solution to left-hand discomfort has been to play my guitars that have slightly beefier neck profiles and fingerboard radii. That means that my Michael Dunn with the shallow neck profile and 1-7/8" flat, classical-style fingerboard does not taken out any more--the stress of my bad habits (lots of thumb-over grips) can bring on joint pain and sometimes a muscle spasm. I really love that guitar's voice, but my left hand can no longer play it for more than a half-hour or so.

[RJVB]

Youre talking about two different things.

I'm not, but whatever, I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

[ruger9]

Seems like an odd spot for arthritis? Arthritis usually eminates from the joint itself, I have it in the OTHER 2 joints of my thumb: where it joins the palm and where it joins the wrist.