I love jazz guitar, but I only *like* jazz music...

[brettdz]

Hi all,

The title pretty much sums it up. I absolutely love jazz guitar. When I hear it, I'm drawn to it and it's what inspires me to play. I grew up on rock and metal, and while I still love those styles of music I never have the urge to play it. But man, when I hear Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Wes, Grant etc, it just makes me want to pick up my guitar and make those beautiful, clean, sounds. But the kicker is, while I enjoy playing the several standards I know, comping, playing the melody and of course improvising, with a band. I can't say I'm too inspired to sit down and LISTEN to jazz for an extended period of time and I know I'll never become the player I want to be if I'm not absorbing the music. Any thoughts/recommendations? Thanks!

bd

[Jonah]

I partly understand what you mean. But still not enough information...


You say you love 'jazz guitar' but you do not like listening to jazz music... it makes me think you are inovelved in something connected particularly with the instrument and the way it is used: sound aesthetics for example you mention...

But the instrument is much connected to the style... when we say 'jazz guitar' we do not only mean 'the praticular tone' or 'particular models of guitar'... 'jazz guitar' is also technique of playing, phrasing, articulation, fingerings etc, - and all that is connected to the music which is played.

So in my opinion it is important that you define more precisely what is it that you are attracted to in 'jazz guitar' really?

And second point is music... what do you mean by 'jazz'? Traditional swing? Bop? or... McLaughlin and Frisell are jazz? and so on?

Then probably it is easy to have yourself involved in something different... there are a lot of 'jazz guitarists' who far beyond traditional jazz idioms and still they sounds like they play jazz guitar - at least to me

[supersoul]

I'm the opposite: I love jazz music but only like some jazz guitar. In fact, it's only the last couple of years (since Covid lockdown, basically) that I've started to really listen to and study other jazz guitarists (although I've been playing jazz for a long time).

Always been more into the music itself, and so many of the giants play instruments that aren't guitar, like drums, bass, piano, horns. I will say that Grant Green has always been someone I've always loved, but the fact that he played guitar was secondary. It was his ideas and phrasings. The first musician I was really into was Eric Dolphy, and then he led me to Charles Mingus, John Coltrane, Booker Little and then those guys led me everywhere else.

The past couple of days I've been listening to Sun Ra a lot.

[mr. beaumont]

Listen to stuff with guitar as a sideman, not just a leader.

If you're meant to like it, you will.

There might always be instruments/formats you're more fond of. I have a real soft spot for drummerless trios, for example. I'm also not super into groups led by a horn with no chordal accompaniment (but there are a few exceptions I really love)

[pauln]

Listening to jazz provides a lot of answers,
but what if you are listening for questions?

[burchyk]

I grew up having little exposure to jazz until I was in mid teens. Rock was everywhere. Jazz music sounded very foreign to my ears. Did not help that a few times someone wanted me to check it out, they would play some old records from the 50s or even earlier, and have this elitist attitude about it. Sadly, it made me resent anything to do with jazz.

Eventually I got bored with music based on diatonic progressions and pentatonic licks and started to seek more variety and complexity.

This led me to discover lots of 70s music that had a good amount of jazz influence but had more of a rock presentation.

Drummers of many classic rock bands were often taught and inspired by jazz drummers and would sneak jazz elements in. Mitch Mitchell, John Bonham and Ginger Baker were the reason I started paying more attention to drums and at the same time helped me with becoming familiar with the sound.

"Fusion" bands like Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Al Di Meola, Weather Report, Dixie Dregs and Allan Holdsworth took it a step further.

Then came Pat Metheny. "Bright Size Life" made a huge impression on me.

Then Coltrane. The combination of harmonic sophistication with a "heavy metal" attitude and incredible phrasing and tone really spoke to me.

And so on.

Jazz is a broad term. Thinking about it, I probably love only a small part of what falls under that umbrella. Explore more and see what resonates with you. Also check out some artists that don't fall strictly under "traditional jazz".

- Jonathan Kreisberg "South of Everywhere"
- John Scofield "Blue Matter"
- Pat Martino "Just Friends" and "Impressions"
- Wayne Krantz "Two Drink Minimum"
- Paul Desmond / Jim Hall "Bossa Antigua"
- Herbie Hancock "Headhunters", "Thrust", "Maiden Voyage"
- Return To Forever "Light as a Feather"
- Bill Evans "Waltz For Debby"
- Wayne Shorter "Adam's Apple"
- Dexter Gordon "One Flight Up"
- Miles Davis "Kind of Blue"
- John Coltrane "A Love Supreme", "Blue Train", "Giant Steps"
- "Ella and Louis" album

I remember most of these being easy to fall in love with for me early on.
Enjoy the journey

[AllanAllen]

Hi all,

The title pretty much sums it up. I absolutely love jazz guitar. When I hear it, I'm drawn to it and it's what inspires me to play. I grew up on rock and metal, and while I still love those styles of music I never have the urge to play it. But man, when I hear Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Wes, Grant etc, it just makes me want to pick up my guitar and make those beautiful, clean, sounds. But the kicker is, while I enjoy playing the several standards I know, comping, playing the melody and of course improvising, with a band. I can't say I'm too inspired to sit down and LISTEN to jazz for an extended period of time and I know I'll never become the player I want to be if I'm not absorbing the music. Any thoughts/recommendations? Thanks!

bd

Listen to what you like and play what makes you happy. Nobody said you have to love everything from Michael Buble and John Coltrane to play jazz.

[RLetson]

I'll second Mr. Beaumont's advice and formulate it this way: look for combos that include your favorite guitarists as sidemen and pay attention to how they fit into those contexts. Then work outward from there. Jazz is, despite the way it foregrounds soloists/leaders, a collaborative art. I followed Bucky Pizzarelli through his many supporting gigs, which led me to, say, Scott Hamilton and Ruby Braff. (Zoot Sims I picked up in college, and like Bucky, he led me to all kinds of other players.)

On the other hand, if it's just the guitar sound that grabs you, then there it is. Even though I've been intensely drawn to guitar in all its forms and traditions for more than 60 years, I find it hard to imagine such an exclusive focus--but then, I came to jazz via big band swing (Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Les Brown), Armstrong, New Orleans, and piano (a straight line from Ellington to Monk) and didn't find Django until I'd listened to a bunch of Grappelli, so what do I know.

[John A.]

Hi all,

The title pretty much sums it up. I absolutely love jazz guitar. When I hear it, I'm drawn to it and it's what inspires me to play. I grew up on rock and metal, and while I still love those styles of music I never have the urge to play it. But man, when I hear Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Wes, Grant etc, it just makes me want to pick up my guitar and make those beautiful, clean, sounds. But the kicker is, while I enjoy playing the several standards I know, comping, playing the melody and of course improvising, with a band. I can't say I'm too inspired to sit down and LISTEN to jazz for an extended period of time and I know I'll never become the player I want to be if I'm not absorbing the music. Any thoughts/recommendations? Thanks!

bd

There's a spectrum from listening purely for enjoyment to listening purely for study. Ideally there's broad overlap, but if not maybe spend some time on stuff you maybe don't enjoy so much when you're in "study" mode, and not worry about doing something that's good for you when you're in "enjoy" mode.

[pamosmusic]

I would agree with this first:

Listen to what you like and play what makes you happy. Nobody said you have to love everything from Michael Buble and John Coltrane to play jazz.

And also this:

There's a spectrum from listening purely for enjoyment to listening purely for study. Ideally there's broad overlap, but if not maybe spend some time on stuff you maybe don't enjoy so much when you're in "study" mode, and not worry about doing something that's good for you when you're in "enjoy" mode.

… but with the caveat that you only need to study as much as you want to study. And ideally the study should be broadening horizons based on what you like, rather than trying to force yourself to like something you’re not that into.

Id also agree with Jeff. I like to listen in what I always call “rabbit holes.” So I’ll get into something I KNOW I’ll like and then look up who’s on it and follow the thread until I end up on something I’m not into, then go back.

Example:

John Coltrane Classic Quartet
Hmm … what was McCoy doing at the time
Who’s the sax on this? Oh crap that’s Joe Henderson
What is Joe Henderson up to at this time?
Did Kenny Dorham do a lot of solo stuff in the late sixties?
Oh damn that’s Andrew Hill on that record?
Whew Andrew Hill was hard work, I’m going to go back to Trane.

[rpjazzguitar]

Is this in the category of "I'd like to be able to do that, but I don't relish the work required to master it?". Common human feeling, I should think.

Does self-discipline matter? Does it work with music or does music have to come more out of instinct? That is, can you sit there and transcribe, or do other practice, without actually loving the process?

I think you like what you like, you end up having to go in the direction of your instincts (plus whatever you can muster from self-discipline) and you play the way you hear the music. Whether that results in a brilliant original style or a sucky imitation of somebody, probably depends on talent and the amount of work you end up putting in.

[Cunamara]

I am very guitar-centric when it comes to listening to music in general, jazz just as much as anything else. Throughout the decades I've been playing guitar, people always warn against falling into this trip but here I am. Not necessarily combos with the guitarist as the leader; I really enjoy listening to people comp on guitar and that is my favorite thing to do, as well. There are about 20 guitarists in my top five jazz guitarists list. Jonah said "it makes me think you are inovelved in something connected particularly with the instrument and the way it is used: sound aesthetics for example you mention" applies to me. I love the sounds of guitars, maybe of the vibrating string rather than a vibrating column of air.

There are relatively few saxophone players I like to listen to, for example; most of them take too many choruses and just go on and on and on without (to my ears, anyway) actually saying very much. I do like Paul Desmond, Stan Getz, Wayne Shorter. There are quite a few trumpet/flugelhorn players that I like, though (Miles Davis, Art Farmer, Freddie Hubbard spring to mind). And Toots Thielmans... how does he do that on harmonica, even a chromatic harmonica?

I like a lot of pianists and keyboard players; I usually like organ trio stuff a lot. Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson, Brad Meldau, Tommy Flanagan, Keith Jarrett are pianists that I enjoy a lot. I am not much of a Bill Evans fan, however.

But almost everything I listen to has a guitar in it somewhere.

[brettdz]

Wow. Thank you all so much for the responses, and recommendations, I really appreciate it. I should have been clearer about a few things. While I do love the *sound* of the guitar, I also meant the style. I love the way guys like Charlie Christian, Wes, Kenny Burrell and Barney Kessel play. And, if I sat down with you and you said, “play some jazz” I would sound like a guy trying to sound like those guys. Key word being trying :-P.


I guess what I get hung up on is standards. I completely understand WHY I should learn them and from an academic perspective, I really enjoy studying them, and actually, playing them. My issue is that I rarely feel like listening to them for my own enjoyment. And then I judge myself and feel like I’m being bad

[Bobby Timmons]

Find jazz guitar you like to listen to and listen to that. Duh.

[mr. beaumont]

Wow. Thank you all so much for the responses, and recommendations, I really appreciate it. I should have been clearer about a few things. While I do love the *sound* of the guitar, I also meant the style. I love the way guys like Charlie Christian, Wes, Kenny Burrell and Barney Kessel play. And, if I sat down with you and you said, “play some jazz” I would sound like a guy trying to sound like those guys. Key word being trying :-P.


I guess what I get hung up on is standards. I completely understand WHY I should learn them and from an academic perspective, I really enjoy studying them, and actually, playing them. My issue is that I rarely feel like listening to them for my own enjoyment. And then I judge myself and feel like I’m being bad

But those guys played tons of standards?

[rpjazzguitar]

[QUOTE=brettdz;1356816]Wow. ThaOTE]


I don't know if it's good or bad, but I like playing some types of music that I don't seek out to listen to very much. And, the opposite -- I don't care to play rock, but I do like listening to it.

[rictroll]

Hi all,

The title pretty much sums it up. I absolutely love jazz guitar. When I hear it, I'm drawn to it and it's what inspires me to play. I grew up on rock and metal, and while I still love those styles of music I never have the urge to play it. But man, when I hear Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Wes, Grant etc, it just makes me want to pick up my guitar and make those beautiful, clean, sounds. But the kicker is, while I enjoy playing the several standards I know, comping, playing the melody and of course improvising, with a band. I can't say I'm too inspired to sit down and LISTEN to jazz for an extended period of time and I know I'll never become the player I want to be if I'm not absorbing the music. Any thoughts/recommendations? Thanks!

bd

It will be tough to learn the language of jazz - and incorporating it your playing - if you don't listen to the music.

[pamosmusic]

But those guys played tons of standards?

Barney Kessel maybe nothing but standards.

[Cunamara]

It will be tough to learn the language of jazz - and incorporating it your playing - if you don't listen to the music.

It is. I don't care for bebop very much, as a personal example. Currently I am playing with and being mentored by an older sax player who loves playing bebop. It's one of the foundations of the language of jazz, so I'm trying to roll with it because it does seem to be improving my playing. But I'm not sure that I'm ever gonna really dig sitting down and listening to that music for entertainment purposes; maybe I can develop a deeper appreciation of it, though.

[Stringswinger]

I have had a love affair with the guitar since I started playing at the age of 10. Blues, Rock, Jazz and Classical are all genres that I play. I listen to guitarists in all of those genres as well.

But jazz is my passion and I do like listening to horn players, keyboard players, bass players and vocalists. I have played bass, sax and piano, but never to the level that I play guitar. So in jazz, I like the guitarists more.

My comfort food musically is Wes, Joe and Kenny. And sometimes Lennon, Clapton and Hendrix. And less often, Stevie Ray or Segovia.

Listen to what you like and play what you like. Be inspired.

[Bop Head]

My entrance into jazz was rock and metal --> blues rock --> blues and old school gospel music --> jazz. At the same time I was always listening to all kinds of different music.

I did not listen to Parker from day one. Some music takes some time to get used to it.

Like almost everyone before me said: Listen to what you like and play what you like.

[Alter]

So if not standards, what do you enjoy listening to? And what is it about that music that you enjoy? That sounds like the way one formulates a style, jazz is a big and varied tradition, and there's an endless journey in exploring, enjoying and understanding it..

[frabarmus]

You're not obliged to play jazz (if you don't love it... though just liking it is a good enough reason, imo) just play whatever you love playing AND play it with your favourite instrument (a jazzbox with a clean tone) ...unless only liking/not loving listening to jazz is a problem for you (like: "what am I missing...?"). In the latter case it's just a matter of making the effrot to listen again and again until you find something you love (and if not, so be it, liking is still good!).

[mr. beaumont]

So what DO you listen to for enjoyment?

[2bornot2bop]

58 years and still haven’t given up Motown or very early 70’s Philly soul. But truth is outside of the vocals the music itself is still jazz. It’s nice to have some variety.