Dexter Gordon Blue Bossa transcription

[Enricopg]

Hello everyone. If you look at

second 0.16, the transition from Cm7 to Ebm7, Dex plays a discending phrase. Is it a Dorian? I am wondering why if I play an Ab instead of an A it doesn’t sound right. Also what do you think is a good scale/mode or arpeggio for a smooth transition from Cm7 to Eb7?
thanks Enrico

[ragman1]

Yes, it's Dorian. Basically the Bb maj scale: Eb D C Bb A G F.

(The natural E is just a chromatic approach note to Eb).

from Cm7 to Eb7?

Do you mean Ebm7?

The Ebm7 is part of the 251 to DbM7.

Use the Cm shape (xxx543) and the Ebm shape next to it (xxx342) as a basis. He also uses a Bbm triad over the Ebm (playing off the 5th). And also changes the Ebm7 into a m/maj7 with the nat A. That sounds good as you can hear.

But he's also using arpeggios of the Bb maj scale, literally picking out the triads: Dm Cm Gm F Cm. That's what nice floaty sound was. Sounds very pentatonic.

(How you play the Ab7 is then up to you. You can play it straight, or as a b9, or altered).

PS. You were playing all that pretty well :-)

[Enricopg]

Thanks for replying. Ok, so it is Dorian. Why do you think if I play a regular Allison mode with an Ab instead of A, it sounds so bad?

what do you mean by xxx543? Or xxx342?

what do you mean by “PS. You were playing all that pretty well :-)”? Is it a joke? ?

thanks Enrico

[ragman1]

what do you mean by “PS. You were playing all that pretty well :-)”? Is it a joke? ?

Eh? Why should it be a joke? No, it wasn't a joke. I meant it, you were playing well. You won't make friends like that!

Why do you think if I play a regular Allison mode with an Ab instead of A, it sounds so bad?

I don't know what an Allison mode is. Never heard of it.

It doesn't sound so bad with an Ab but you'll notice he's been using a lot of natural A's over the Cm to give it a m6 sound and also over the Ebm to make a m/maj7 sound. Keeping up the natural A fits better probably.

what do you mean by xxx543? Or xxx342?

Don't you know this way of writing chords? There are 6 strings, bottom to top. x means no fingering, don't play anything. So if you played a D major chord, for example, you would write it xx0232. Get it? The numbers are the frets, not the fingers.

So xxx543 is a Cm triad. And xxx342 is an Ebm triad. You can use them to play around, all the notes are there.

[Enricopg]

[QUOTE=ragman1;1296763]Eh? Why should it be a joke? No, it wasn't a joke. I meant it, you were playing well. You won't make friends like that!"

Sorry there was a misunderstanding. I typed with my ipad. Did you see there are two question marks? one question mark was supposed to be a smiling face. The ipad replaced it with a question mark. I did not mean to be rude. It wasn't me playing. That's why I thought you were joking. Sorry.

"I don't know what an Allison mode is. Never heard of it."

Again the ipad changed the word aeolian with allison. Sorry. I meant Aeolian.


"Don't you know this way of writing chords? There are 6 strings, bottom to top. x means no fingering, don't play anything. So if you played a D major chord, for example, you would write it xx0232. Get it? The numbers are the frets, not the fingers.

So xxx543 is a Cm triad. And xxx342 is an Ebm triad. You can use them to play around, all the notes are there."

Oh I see... No, I did not know this way of writing chords. Anyway... Thank you.

[Rob MacKillop]

Modern life encapsulated in the above discussion! LOL.

[ragman1]

Anyway... Thank you.

OK, don't worry, it's all over now :-)

I had another thought after I posted. You know the tune has two sections:

Cm - % - Fm - %
Dm7b5 - G7alt - Cm - %

Ebm - Ab7 - DbM7 - %
Dm7b5 - G7alt - Cm - %

Personally, I like to pause a little between them, just a little. It keeps the rhythm of the tune clear. When you ask for a way of playing smoothly from the Cm to the Ebm, do you really need to make it all one line?

I'd be tempted to pause after the first section Cm. Then play a pick-up to the Ebm and go on from there. The line needn't be a continuous line from Cm into Ebm. It is a complete change of key after all.

Quite a good way to make the change is to play around Cm at the 3rd fret then move up to Ebm at the 6th fret. Then move down again.

[Enricopg]

Yes, you are perfectly right. In fact I do not usually play Cm7 to Ebm7. The most natural way of playing is perhaps to pause there. It was just a curiosity. Also, I find it challenging. But I agree with you. No need to play a long line there.

[pamosmusic]

When you ask for a way of playing smoothly from the Cm to the Ebm, do you really need to make it all one line?

Well, no. But you’d like that be a choice rather than a limitation.

As for smoothing it out. Voiceleading would be the way.

C can step easily up to Db or down to Bb.
Eb is a common tone and also steps up to F.
G steps down to Gb or up to Ab
Bb is a common tone or steps down to Ab.

Lots of ways to string those two chords together into one phrase.

For what it’s worth, Dexter blows right through that section on the first two choruses at least.

[ragman1]

Lots of ways to string those two chords together into one phrase.

Of course, if you know your notes.

For what it’s worth, Dexter blows right through that section on the first two choruses at least.

Sure, but that's Dexter Gordon, not the OP. Not me either, come to that :-)

[ragman1]

Enricopg -

I've just realised something. I wish I'd seen it before! Ridiculous.

You can play the Db major scale over Cm7 because it's C locrian. And obviously you can play Db major over Ebm-Ab7-DM7.

So anytime after bar 6 you can start on Db major.

I don't think it comes much smoother than that.

[pamosmusic]

Enricopg -

I've just realised something. I wish I'd seen it before! Ridiculous.

You can play the Db major scale over Cm7 because it's C locrian. And obviously you can play Db major over Ebm-Ab7-DM7.

So anytime after bar 6 you can start on Db major.

I don't think it comes much smoother than that.

Thats not the case. Db major has a Cm7b5 (C half diminished) in it.

[ragman1]

Still permissible. It's being used as a pick-up. If every note had to be precisely correct we wouldn't have anything. No jazz, no blues... Listen to the recording.

[pamosmusic]

Still permissible. If every note had to be precisely correct we wouldn't have anything. No jazz, no blues... Listen to the recording.

Ah. Lots of C locrian mode in that classic Dexter Gordon cut?

Anything is permissible, but the language has conventions. Knowing how and when to push them is important.

[AllanAllen]

That's funny, in Geroge Benson's autobiography he goes on about how hip it was the flat the five. I think he even tried to impress a girl by writing a song that had all the fives flatted.

It's a good book. If you can stomach the anecdote of Monk Montgomery telling a teenage Benson he can replace Wes any time he wants in the Montgomery Brothers. My eyes about rolled out of my head at that.

Back to the tune, to get from Cm to Ebm just pick a chord tone and walk it up four frets. This doesn't have to be that complicated.

[pamosmusic]

That's funny, in Geroge Benson's autobiography he goes on about how hip it was the flat the five. I think he even tried to impress a girl by writing a song that had all the fives flatted.

Im going to save you all from the Christian cameo and point out that that’s almost certainly a blue note which is decidedly not the same thing as a locrian mode.

[ragman1]

Knowing how and when to push them is important

Absolutely. It can be pushed further. As well as Db maj over Cm7 there's also Db melodic and Bb harmonic.

Sorry, last clip. Not bad sounds. Makes a change, anyway.

Lots of C locrian mode in that classic Dexter Gordon cut?

Probably none at all. Maybe he forgot :-)

Cm to Ebm just pick a chord tone and walk it up four frets.

I already told him that. Just shift up a m3rd.

[pamosmusic]

Back to the tune, to get from Cm to Ebm just pick a chord tone and walk it up four frets. This doesn't have to be that complicated.

This is true but a lot of the time moving parallel to the bass motion can sound predictable and-or not that smooth.

Moving in the same direction by a different interval or even contrary to the bass really makes things seem smoother and more organic.

It sounds technical, but when folks have aesthetic or subjective-sounding issues with their playing, it can sometimes be helpful to put them in more solid or measurable terms.

[AllanAllen]

Shift makes me think of a skip, I was suggesting chromatically go up four frets. But where probably saying the same thing in a different way.... again.

[AllanAllen]

This is true but a lot of the time moving parallel to the bass motion can sound predictable and-or not that smooth.

Moving in the same direction by a different interval or even contrary to the bass really makes things seem smoother and more organic.

It sounds technical, but when folks have aesthetic or subjective-sounding issues with their playing, it can sometimes be helpful to put them in more solid or measurable terms.

What's wrong with doing something predictable? I think a lot of players lose taste in favor of being subversive, then they have to explain why their music is theoretically sound and interesting. Instead of playing music that sounds good, they play music that will impress music theory nerds.

[pamosmusic]

Shift makes me think of a skip, I was suggesting chromatically go up four frets. But where probably saying the same thing in a different way.... again.

Three frets, no?

And in this case we aren’t.

When I see chord changes that don’t seem to be super closely related, it can sound predictable and not particularly smooth or organic to move with the bass motion.

So in this case, the bass moves up a minor third. Rather than doing the same thing, you can move up by a step or use a common tone depending on where you are. Or better yet, try to make your line descend against the motion of the bass.

[pamosmusic]

What's wrong with doing something predictable? I think a lot of players lose taste in favor of being subversive, then they have to explain why their music is theoretically sound and interesting. Instead of playing music that sounds good, they play music that will impress music theory nerds.

Nothing is wrong with it, but doing it every time is kind of boring. And how else would you recommend I describe what I’m doing?

If you’re running descending ii-Vs in a tune, try to make your line ascend. It’s one of those things that is actually super super practical and makes an immediate difference when you’re playing.

and the OP was having trouble connecting the two chords. So I thought I’d reply to the specific problem he was having.

I know it sounds technical but I find it way more frustrating when people say floaty crap like “go to the recording” or “try to make your line flow” or whatever. Specificity sometimes requires sounding a little technical.

[AllanAllen]

I was counting C, the line would be 4 notes long.

I get your point though. I'm not suggesting one would do it every time and it would be a best practice.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah. I get a little snippy when folks are like “that’s too much theory.”

My very first jazz guitar lesson was incredibly frustrating because he just kept telling me I need to make my lines more harmonically colorful.

Try bringing out the upper extensions.

But I was like … I’m playing some of them and I don’t know what it means to “bring something out”

A few months later I started taking regularly with a different guy and he had me transcribing a lot a lot. He’d take the transcriptions and point to all these spots in the line that tended to draw the ear … the first note, the last note, the highest note, etc. And I was like … ohhhhhhhh

So a lot of the time what people dismiss as overly technical is really just specific and actionable. Without that specific and actionable information we’re basically just running on Vibez

[Christian Miller]

Parallel motion in thirds is big and clever and will never sound bad. There are melodies based on it, especially on backcycling progs. That’s step one IMO.

Worth throwing a few thousand hours at imo. it might be a little predictable after a while, but it’s amazing how much variety you can pull out of that one if you learn all the embellishing figures.

You can subvert with a cheeky 9th ‘JAZZ HANDS.’ As I call it.

resolving to the root in contrast should be reserved for the ‘ends of sentences’. It has an air of finality. I probably overuse it….

the Fifth is fine but a little weaker than the third but useful.

Sixths (along with ninths, esp flat ninths) are your main moving notes. Look out for how those behave especially with thirds (and fifths) in the following chords