Question on transcribing for Trumpet

[AllanAllen]

So, lets say I learn an obscure tune in F and I need to provide a sheet for a trumpet to play along with me.

Do I transpose it to E to match my F?

[pamosmusic]

So, lets say I learn an obscure tune in F and I need to provide a sheet for a trumpet to play along with me.

Do I transpose it to E to match my F?

It would be G, but yeah.

No hard and fast rule on whether or not to do it. It’s sort of common sense for the transposing stuff. Like if it’s a common tune you can expect them to be able to transpose or to know it already, but it’s a courtesy to provide a transposed chart. The more obscure the tune, the more it would be expected. An arrangement is a definite.

[AllanAllen]

So, up a whole step?

Thanks. I’m just going to write out my own sheets. It’ll be good reading practice and then everyone will have a copy of things how I want them.

[pamosmusic]

So, up a whole step?

Thanks. I’m just going to write out my own sheets. It’ll be good reading practice and then everyone will have a copy of things how I want them.

Yeah the transpositions are sort of the opposite of what you’d think. It’s “when this instrument plays C, the concert pitch is …”

So when a trumpet plays their C, we hear a concert Bb. When a sax plays a C, we hear a concert Eb.

It’s weird and confusing and annoying and unfortunately standard. Sigh.

[grahambop]

Yes it can be confusing. Trumpet is a transposing Bb instrument, tenor sax is Bb, alto sax is Eb. Which means those are the notes that sound when they each play a written C. So a chart may need to be transposed to make them play what you want to hear.

Notation software such as Musescore usually knows all this stuff and makes it easy to produce charts in the right transpositions for all instruments. E.g. select trumpet, write the part in concert pitch (i.e. with concert pitch turned on), then toggle it back to trumpet pitch and it will transpose correctly.

I once got into a weird discussion with a rather belligerent dad when we were at a school parents evening. His daughter played the trumpet and they couldn’t understand why she couldn’t play along to her favourite pop songs or something. I tried to explain the whole transposition thing (e.g. a sax player can theoretically play the whole sax family with no fingering changes, using the appropriate chart) but he thought it was stupid and got quite angry with me!

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, I downloaded musescore but also wanted to do drafts by hand. I was at a jam and someone didn't know a song but the leader was able to write out a lead sheet in seconds. I really saw the value there.

[grahambop]

Yes it’s a useful skill, and not that difficult really, if you know the various instrument transpositions. The whole arranging thing is quite an interesting rabbit hole to get into!

[ragman1]

Trumpet is a Bb instrument. You have two choices:

1. Write it out in F because those are the notes you know you're playing. But if a Bb instrument reads it as written it'll come out in Eb.
2. Or write it out in G and when a Bb instrument plays it it'll come out in F.

It can get confusing. Some YouTube transcriptions for Bb instruments are written in concert although, if you check, it's sounding a tone below. Like this one. The long F (at about 0.09) is actually an Eb.

So although it's written in Am it's really coming out in Gm, concert.

Don't ask me :-)

[ragman1]

Most decent notation programs incorporate an instant transpose button. But you still have to check for enharmonic discrepancies.

[pauln]

So, lets say I learn an obscure tune in F and I need to provide a sheet for a trumpet to play along with me.

If you are scoring for the trumpet (from the guitar), be sure to put him in the right octave (guitar music is written an octave higher than the guitar sounds)...

[AllanAllen]

Most decent notation programs incorporate an instant transpose button. But you still have to check for enharmonic discrepancies.

I'm sort of turned off by programs with all the harm ireal backing has given me. I had to pull up my Satin Doll sheet at the last jam because iReal has turned into a practice crutch. It's hard to use a tool and not rely on it. For now I'll write stuff out and make mistakes, the stakes are low, it's just music.

[Lionelsax]

If you are scoring for the trumpet (from the guitar), be sure to put him in the right octave (guitar music is written an octave higher than the guitar sounds)...

They won't be disturbed, Bb score are sometimes written for trumpet or sax (Real Book), it works with or without adaptation (generally trumpets play an octave lower than when it's written for a sax), they exactly do the same than guitarists.
They can read well and know their instruments.

If I were you, I wouldn't do anything, horn players know what to do, it's part of their job.
Transposing for a horn player is like teaching how to swim to a fish.

[Irishmuso]

Yes it’s a useful skill, and not that difficult really, if you know the various instrument transpositions. The whole arranging thing is quite an interesting rabbit hole to get into!

After a while it's more fun than Sudoku - ok I've never played Sudoku - and can soon become quite automatic. It's something a musician should be able to do, but I find that a lot of brass players aren't quite as accomplished at transposing as you might expect. Handing them a transposed lead sheet will not only be appreciated but will establish your credentials as not-just-another-guitar-player.

[Lionelsax]

After a while it's more fun than Sudoku - ok I've never played Sudoku - and can soon become quite automatic. It's something a musician should be able to do, but I find that a lot of brass players aren't quite as accomplished at transposing as you might expect. Handing them a transposed lead sheet will not only be appreciated but will establish your credentials as not-just-another-guitar-player.

So they are not brass players at all.
Most of trumpeters I knew thought directly in concert key if they didn't, they read in alto clef.
They were from a classical background and played C and Bb trumpets.
They were only trumpeters, ask tuba, French horn and trombone players, you will see how good they are.

[pamosmusic]

So they are not brass players at all.
Most of trumpeters I knew thought directly in concert key if they didn't, they read in alto clef.
They were from a classical background and played C and Bb trumpets.
They were only trumpeters, ask tuba, French horn and trombone players, you will see how good they are.

Most brass players I know can transpose well, but still consider you a lazy sonofagun if you can’t be bothered to bring them a transposed chart.

Again … standards are different, etc etc etc

[AllanAllen]

I dunno Lionel. If I’m going to call songs that aren’t in the first 3 real books. I think I should provide a sheet. They can’t be expected to know the obscure songs I found on Spotify.

[Lionelsax]

I dunno Lionel. If I’m going to call songs that aren’t in the first 3 real books. I think I should provide a sheet. They can’t be expected to know the obscure songs I found on Spotify.

Don't worry about that, they will know what to do.
If you know what you play you should not worry.

[pamosmusic]

Allen, go with your gut. Just bring your transposed charts.

it’s courtesy.

You don’t take your guests plate to the sink because your guest is incapable of doing it on their own.

[alez]

Each of these instrumentalists does something different. A trumpeter will play one tone below what's written. A tenor sax a major 9th below. An alto sax a major 6th below. If you write parts (or charts), you should do the opposite transpositions to those described to counteract that, specially if you're not giving them those parts in advance. If it's just chord charts and the keys are common, I'd say no need.