The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys,

    Sorry to bug you all again, but in my quest to learn to read music and in looking at the sheet music for Bag's Groove ( in the key of F major) I noticed something that I think is correct, but not sure.

    In the pic below I've circled the "A". I'm wondering if because the prior "A" is flatted and because the next "A" has not been noted as a Natural does it remain flat? It sounds like a flat to me. Just wanted to double check.

    Thanks.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Yes the second A gets flatted because it is in the same bar as the previous A that was flatted. If it was meant to be an A natural then that would have to be indicated with the natural sign. Think how busy the music would look with all those markings if this convention wasn’t followed.

    Also notice the key signature….it shows a B flat…that means every B note should be flatted and they don’t have to tell you that in the music….the key signature is telling you to flat every B. This convention also cuts down on the busyness.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes
    Yes the second A gets flatted because it is in the same bar as the previous A that was flatted. If it was meant to be an A natural then that would have to be indicated with the natural sign. Think how busy the music would look with all those markings if this convention wasn’t followed.

    Also notice the key signature….it shows a B flat…that means every B note should be flatted and they don’t have to tell you that in the music….the key signature is telling you to flat every B. This convention also cuts down on the busyness.
    Ok. Great. That's what I was thinking but just wanted to make sure. Yeah, I agree... it would be very difficult to read with all of that notation for sure. And I have begun to figure out the key signatures and have memorized them (at least the common ones) which has been a big help.

    Thanks for the input.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    I suggest my students to learn the word "BEAD"... and just order them to memorize "fis cis gis" forever.
    So, with all 7 flats the order goes: Bes Es As Des.... and Ges Ces Fes <- backwards from fis cis gis.
    Then also ask them to remember that Dis or Des is always the 4th one, always "in the middle.
    Then with all 7 sharps: Fis Cis Gis... and from "BEAD" backwards -> Dis Ais Eis Bis.
    Thats easier to just bang them into the head one by one.

    Also good to know - the natural major has the "last... or new" sharp at the 7th degree. Then they get instantly the count of the sharps in that key.
    Then with flats, the natural major is built from the .. damn my english.. 1 flat before the last in the key signature. So if the key signature is: Bes Es As Des, the natural major with those flats is As. With Bes Es As, the key is Es.

    I mean, there may be smarter ways too. My point was that it's better to have a system, it's good to ponder about it... not just go and try to remember them all separately.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    The key signature system is a very clever 10th century data compression for music. Here is my definitely not historically correct way of thinking about music notation from a design perspective.

    Imagine a group of musicians with the assignment to invent a system for writing music notation. Someone suggests using a stack of lines (the staff) for the representation of pitches, one line for each pitch. A mark on a line indicates to play that pitch. The pianist points out that he has 88 pitches, so the staff would need 88 lines, which would occupy the whole page and be impossible to read.

    Someone suggests using both lines and spaces for the pitches. The pianist says that still presents him with 44 lines and 44 spaces; better, still too much. Someone suggests restricting the range of the staff and just adding addition short lines above or below when needed (ledger lines) and using an indication to specify when pitches are to be played above or below the written indication by an octave (8va- - - - -).

    The big breakthrough is when they notice that although the size of the staff is getting more manageable, the readability conversion to playability seems a bit wonky. Virtually all of the music is diatonic and much of that is comprised of following scales, but all the diatonic scales represented on the staff look like diagonal lines with two kinks in them. The scales are mostly whole tones which step by two pitches, but each scale has two places where only a single step between pitches occurs. Is there anything that can be done to straighten out the scales on the staff to make them easier to read (and read ahead)?

    They do find a way, over a thousand years ago, that is universal for all diatonic scales in all keys! They notice that the diatonic scales have seven pitches, so writing a scale including its octave (eight pitches) uses up thirteen lines and spaces. What if instead of assigning the lines and spaces to pitches, the assignment were made to the diatonic pitches of scales? That makes the scales straight diagonals on the staff without kinks, but for all but two of the scales (C major/A minor) some corrections in pitch need to be made. Those corrections can be indicated throughout the score as needed, but it was noticed that the same lines and spaces tended to need pitch correction for a particular song, but different consistent corrections for other songs... but virtually all the corrections for any particular song can be indicated as a combined listing of them placed at the beginning (the sets of sharps and flats indicating the key signature).

    The critical thing to know about this system is that "note" is not defined by pitch, it is defined by the letter names of the lines and spaces in the staff. This means a mark on the second line from the bottom of the G treble clef staff is called G, but that is not a pitch. The note G can represent a least three different pitches indicated by accidentals either directly applied or implied by the key signature - Gb, G, G#.

    The key signatures are designed to remove the kinks that the half steps in diatonic scales present in pitch based notation. In note based notation, those discontinuities in the positions of the marks vanish for all diatonic scales in all keys, making it easy to compose, write, and read. The musician only has to notice the key signature indicated at the beginning and apply that throughout, just keeping watch for exceptions marks (accidentals/naturals).

    Knowing that notes and pitches are different things makes the rest fall into place.
    Notes can be multiple pitches (the staff line for G may indicate Gb, G, G#)
    Pitches can be multiple notes (enharmonic like Ab - a space, and G# - a line).

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by shrews824
    Hey guys,

    Sorry to bug you all again, but in my quest to learn to read music and in looking at the sheet music for Bag's Groove ( in the key of F major) I noticed something that I think is correct, but not sure.

    In the pic below I've circled the "A". I'm wondering if because the prior "A" is flatted and because the next "A" has not been noted as a Natural does it remain flat? It sounds like a flat to me. Just wanted to double check.

    Thanks.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    Yes it’s an A flat