The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Levitin, D. J. & Rogers, S. E. (2005). "Absolute pitch: Perception, coding, and controversies" (PDF). Trends in Cognitive Sciences. 9 (1): 26–33. doi:10.1016/j.tics.2004.11.007. PMID 15639438. S2CID 15346652. Archived from the original (PDF) on March 22, 2006. Retrieved June 11, 2006.

    Wiki had this reference. The wiki summary is, no, nobody has ever demonstrated that they learned absolute pitch defined, apparently, as the ability to identify a note without a reference tone.

    BTW, if that's not a good definition, please supply one, that says what absolute pitch is, not just what it isn't.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Levitin, D. J. & Rogers, S. E. (2005). "Absolute pitch: Perception, coding, and controversies" (PDF). Trends in Cognitive Sciences. 9 (1): 26–33. doi:10.1016/j.tics.2004.11.007. PMID 15639438. S2CID 15346652. Archived from the original (PDF) on March 22, 2006. Retrieved June 11, 2006.

    Wiki had this reference. The wiki summary is, no, nobody has ever demonstrated that they learned absolute pitch defined, apparently, as the ability to identify a note without a reference tone.

    BTW, if that's not a good definition, please supply one, that says what absolute pitch is, not just what it isn't.
    Here's the full article (thanks Alexandra!): https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.tics.2004.11.007

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Sam Leak (great player!) did not demonstrate perfect pitch in that video. Single notes on his main instrument that he is well acquainted with is simply not the same as being able to identify context-less notes produced by other instruments with different timbres.

    Regardless, the human brain is remarkably plastic - both functionally and structurally - even (though less pronounced) among the elderly. Who the heck knows what it can be trained to do with a singular task given enough time and effort?
    In terms of ear training, it is possible to develop great skill as an adult in relative pitch and be able to recognise complex clusters of notes by ear. Charles Banacos trained students to recognise clusters of 7-8 notes with relative pitch (IIRC.) So those who trained to do that might be able to do the Dylan Beato video thing somewhat...but you would still need a reference pitch.

    OTOH it is possible to have perfect pitch and not be able to do this - it's a spectrum. Not everyone with perfect pitch is Dylan Beato. (And obviously if you acquire this type of ear early in childhood that's easier, just like with languages.)

    Anyway I believe the preferred term is absolute pitch; which simply means the ability to recognise pitch without a reference. The question is - can you develop (as an adult) a strong enough reference pitch from pitch memory (that most people have anyway to some extent) and use that in combination with a trained ear to have acquired perfect pitch (in effect)?

    Sam seems to be saying.. well yes... maybe...

    If you are looking to be Dylan in a few months, that obviously isn't going to happen.. but you can improve your absolute pitch recall (the caveat being I watched this video a while back and I certainly don't have time to that again lol.)

    Anyway; I have no skin in the game. I honestly don't give a shit. But I thought I'd cite someone who actually knows the research in this area. Sorry if that bored people lol.

  5. #29

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    Once the first note gets played, relative pitch takes over.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Levitin, D. J. & Rogers, S. E. (2005). "Absolute pitch: Perception, coding, and controversies" (PDF). Trends in Cognitive Sciences. 9 (1): 26–33. doi:10.1016/j.tics.2004.11.007. PMID 15639438. S2CID 15346652. Archived from the original (PDF) on March 22, 2006. Retrieved June 11, 2006.

    Wiki had this reference. The wiki summary is, no, nobody has ever demonstrated that they learned absolute pitch defined, apparently, as the ability to identify a note without a reference tone.

    BTW, if that's not a good definition, please supply one, that says what absolute pitch is, not just what it isn't.
    The ability to (without any reference, not even a memorized one) hear and recognize a pitch for what that pitch is and divorce it from any contextual/functional reference. Some call this "pitch chroma". I'll put it to you this way: I knew someone with perfect pitch who could literally not recognize a piece by Faure because it was being played in a different key than the original. This person could however, tell you every single note played in the piece.

    I wrote this to explain it to someone on reddit a while back:

    Ok, so take this scenario:


    You don't have perfect pitch and someone plays you a C and tells you its a C. Are you hearing the C?

    No (as crazy as it sounds), you're not. Instead, you're actually imposing/hearing a function on this C and labeling that function as being a "C" after the fact. Your mind may hear that C as a tonic, which you would then label as C because that's the information you were given. In other words, you're hearing a tonic that happens to be C, not the C itself. This is why pitch memory is also referred to as tonal memory. Those without PP who "memorize" a C aren't actually memorizing a C - they're memorizing the sound of C assuming a certain function (in this case, a tonic).

    This is why the those with good pitch memory often struggle to identify their memorized pitch(es) outside of isolated contexts. In real music, C can assume an almost infinite amount of functions. If you play an atonal piece for someone who has "memorized" a C and ask them to identify every instance of C as it occurs, they won't be able to (at least not without using their relative pitch) .This is also why it's so difficult for many to latch onto atonal music. Since we can't hear the intrinsic nature and sound of pitches themselves and since atonal music obscures function, our brains literally don't know what to latch onto.


    On the other hand, those with perfect pitch can just hear the C as its own entity. They can divorce it from function and any other references. They can literally hear the "C-ness" of a C; the intrinsic sound properties that make a C sound like a C. No matter what context that C is placed in, it's gonna sound like a C. It's not a memorization thing - they just know. Those with PP hear fundamentally differently than those without it. Hope that makes sense."

    Note: when I say "function" I'm not just talking about tonal functions. I'm talking about any combination of notes played simultaneously and how they affect the sound of the notes they're interacting with. If you play a cluster chord say, E F Gb, all those notes make each of the other notes take on a distinct flavor to us without PP. Those with PP can just hear the notes for themselves. This is also why people with PP don't innately have good relative pitch, they have to train it like everyone else.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    Once the first note gets played, relative pitch takes over.
    You're no fun.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    ...I like what Victor Wooten and other say that if someone wants to play music get them the instrument they want to play and don't give them lessons for a few months. Just let them play around with it, make sounds with it, see what they discover on their own, basically bond with it before starting lessons...
    A major component of Professor Harold Hill's Think System!!

  9. #33

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    My own experience with this stuff, is that there are varying degrees of pitch memory and relative pitch and some people have more or less of them. I play with a very good pianist who says he doesn't have perfect pitch but "something close" and that does seem to be accurate: he can guess a key of a tune in the background right a lot of the time, but not all the time.

    Familiarity with an instrument plays a role here: Most of us can probably hear a low D on guitar in dropped D tuning and be right about it most of the time. But would we be right about a low Db? for myself, probably not. I can hear that there's a note on guitar lower than an "E" and be right about that a very high percentage of the time, but identifying that note exactly from the pitch, I'd be wrong more often than not.

    the people I know with true absolute pitch however, would literally never be wrong about this kind of thing: recognizing an "A" is the same as the color blue and they'd nail it perfectly every time.

    There's not much evidence that perfect pitch really helps your musicianship that much, though. Certainly not in today's musical climate.

  10. #34

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    Heh. Just tried this, imagined the guitar with 6th tuned to D. Sung, the note(octave higher of course), opened the tuner and voila! only a little flat from D.

    edit: and after posting this, tried it again for fun. To see if I can actually nail the correct frequency.. now it was Eb. oh crap.

  11. #35

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    Perfect or absolute pitch... Why even bother when there are so many instruments that have a fudge factor to intonate.
    So, you got double bass, sax, singer and a guitar (that is slightly off tune always) - they should nail eachother's intonation. That perfect 442 kinda aint that important in this situation .. or whatever number people are agreeing nowadays.

  12. #36

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    It’s highly possible to get a life.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    It’s highly possible to get a life.
    That's what I keep telling myself.

  14. #38

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    Will perfect pitch make me more popular?

  15. #39
    In jazz I would think the ability to remember many melodic phrases would be more desirable. A photographic memory of connected intervals or melodies. If you can memorize your fave songs and solos you will have a good skill. In Nashville recording circles the really skilled players can hear a demo once and be ready for a first take performance,it does not matter if the singer wants it in a different key then original demo. They transcribe with nashville number system its called, on a legal pad, often so any key is fine but changes need to be right first time cause top studio with A team players is big money.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve burchfield
    In jazz I would think the ability to remember many melodic phrases would be more desirable. A photographic memory of connected intervals or melodies. If you can memorize your fave songs and solos you will have a good skill. In Nashville recording circles the really skilled players can hear a demo once and be ready for a first take performance,it does not matter if the singer wants it in a different key then original demo. They transcribe with nashville number system its called, on a legal pad, often so any key is fine but changes need to be right first time cause top studio with A team players is big money.
    There’s a fabulous way to practice this which is; you listen to musical phrases, songs and chord progressions and you try and copy them on your instrument.

    Over time, you get better.

    Imagine.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Someone who definitely knows what they are talking about:

    The video mentions about Japanese music students with Perfect Pitch. My current learning style that I made breakthroughs with Perfect Pitch is the Eguchi Method, which is Japanese in origins. But I will investigate the Suzuki Method - what it is - how it works - like the Eguchi, I will omit the parts geared towards little children and add my own spin on it. Having adapted two Japanese methods for Perfect Pitch is a boost for my cause.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    You know what .. It's 2020 .. Life is hard .. We don't really care about whatever you choose to spend your time on. We just don't understand why you bother, when you instead could be spending time on actually learning tunes and playing.

    Here is a dude that actually has perfect pitch arguing that ear training is a waste of time.



    May I suggest jumping to 59:57

    Anyways .. what ever you choose to do, good luck with it and hope you have fun.
    Stop telling me how to live my life.