1. #1

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    I tend to only transcribe solos from standards with traditional ''jazz harmony''. However, I for example really like Rosenwinkels solo on ''Jackys Place'' from Mark Turners album ''Dharma Days''. It's kinda weird harmonically with chords like Fmaj7#5, Cmaj7#9, Bbmb13.

    Do you think transcribing solos from these kind of modern compositions would get one useful and hip lines when soloing over traditional jazz standards, e.g ''Just Friends''?

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by thagirion View Post
    I tend to only transcribe solos from standards with traditional ''jazz harmony''. However, I for example really like Rosenwinkels solo on ''Jackys Place'' from Mark Turners album ''Dharma Days''. It's kinda weird harmonically with chords like Fmaj7#5, Cmaj7#9, Bbmb13.

    Do you think transcribing solos from these kind of modern compositions would get one useful and hip lines when soloing over traditional jazz standards, e.g ''Just Friends''?
    I think that's a really good question.

    I've always tended to transcribe modern players on standard tunes because it gives me a clear reference point.

    However, I'm quite interested in transcribing modern tunes in general, just to get me better at hearing non functional changes. It's slow work but I'm improving, where transcribing the changes of jazz standards is really not an issue.

    In terms of soloing on these tunes, I'm sure you could learn a lot. It's been my experience nothing is truly isolated from anything else.

    Those chords aren't that weird to me TBH. The Cmaj7#9 sound is something we get in the harmonic minor mode, it turns up in tunes like Speak No Evil, but also can be used generally in minor key harmony, or as an interesting colour on major... Bbmb13 is really an inversion of Gbmaj9 to my ears, and Fmaj#5 is a pretty common tonality...

  4. #3

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    It's a good way to learn one aspect of the soloing process. I'd say just as important is to train your ear to hear the phrasing, the arc of a solo, and to train your ear to hear scales derived from Melodic as well as Harmonic Minor scales. This will give you the ability to use the same toolset as those guys without stealing their lines. It could give you a better chance at appreciating the line construction and still keep the doors wide open for you to develop your own sound without being trapped by their recorded lines.

    It could be fun and very satisfying, and in the end, knowing a line by sound makes transcription easier. Once you understand how more chromatic sounds are used contextually in traditional harmonic frameworks, then by all means, use that stuff. I don't know any cat worth their time who doesn't love a standard and look at them as a really great and satisfying challenge to put a personal spin on.
    Kurt did a tour a while back and he played a lot of standards with a trio I think it was. Great stuff to find and learn from.

    David

  5. #4

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    Maybe you should start with Woody Shaw or McCoy Tyner.

    Both have a very modern vocabulary and there's tons of albums of them playing standards.

    I remember taking a lesson with Richie Vitale when I was still in NYC. What a character, the lesson was a lot of fun. He played me some Woody Shaw lines and I kept thinking, DAAYUUUM THAT's HIP!

    Jonathan Kreisberg is a modern player who often plays standards. He has this workshop where he plays Summertime and it's absolutely captivating.



    I think it might have been posted a couple of times on the forum. Now that I'm listening to it again, I hear Wayne Shorter-isms. Miles's second quartet was incredibly modern, I'll agree to that.

    I don't think it's the note choice necessarily that makes these guitarist modern. I think it's the phrasing and poly rhythms that really make it modern.

  6. #5

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    Nah I think you should transcribe whatever gives you a massive music boner.

    If I wanted duty I would have joined the army.

  7. #6

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    No duty except the duty I clean in dirty nappies everyday

    Seriously, that stuff that Shaw plays over standards is nutz.

    And Herbies original compositions on BlueNote, yeiooww. There's so much modern stuff there.

    I was always entranced by McCoy's playing, I gotta get some of that sauce into my playing.

    Back to my point, the modern guitarists of today use a lot of what the modern cats in the 60s used. I think the key difference is the rhythm. The odd groupings, poly rhythms, and such.

    Adam Rogers is another interesting cat to transcribe for modern playing.

  8. #7

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    Oh I quite agree.... just think people gotta come go things their own way....