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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban View Post
    No offense, but you seem to be in the wrong forum. This forum is about music, especially about playing jazz music - typically with a guitar.

    You seem to be more interested in athletics. There should be more appropriate forums out there.

    To bad having perfect pitch can't pay your bills

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  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200 View Post
    So far I see that the OP plays bass in church and has had 5 years of jazz piano courses. I may be wrong but I didn't see anything about guitar. BTW, if you are going to play upright bass or a Jaco bass, you probably need a decent sense of relative pitch. There are no freakin' frets!
    March 24, 2019 - Last week was 35 this week it went up to 45 chord voicings. I haven't faced adversity in my PP experimentation yet. However, I am starting to run out of distinct chord voicings and have to face the dreaded semitone root notes, such as distinguishing between a G voicing and an Ab voicing. I don't know how I'll do, but it might be my first learning curb and if I succeed with it, hearing the note of a toilet flushing is not that far behind.

    I am getting some funny posts that I don't play guitar and that I am in the wrong forum. When I signed up in this forum years ago, I was studying jazz guitar with Roy Patterson at York University. Today, I am taking metal guitar lessons via Skype with Scott Marano. I am an avid guitar player. I not only collect chord voicings but I also try to learn a lot of guitar pieces as possible. When it comes to guitar, I believe in learning something new every single day i.e. new lick, new solo, new riff etc. I believe that the more repertoire I learn, the easier the next song will be to master. It just so happens this post is about Perfect Pitch.

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban View Post
    No offense, but you seem to be in the wrong forum. This forum is about music, especially about playing jazz music - typically with a guitar.

    You seem to be more interested in athletics. There should be more appropriate forums out there.








    SCNR
    Speaking of "Athletics"...the baseball season is underway and I would like to throw in a baseball reference pertaining to Perfect Pitch...March 31, 2019- Last week I was only 45 voicings - this week I reached the milestone of 50 ending with 54. This includes completing the series of 12 Major Triads in Root Position. Practicing Perfect Pitch is a lot like playing baseball or any sport you throw in there...one day you are putting on a clinic, guessing everything accurately...then the next day you swing and miss a lot and have empty trips...the beautiful thing of Practicing Perfect Pitch is that it gives an imaginary sport to non-athletes like me.

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    To bad having perfect pitch can't pay your bills
    Yes, you don't get money from doing this...but unlocking a new note, harmonic interval, or chord voicing is like catching a new Pokemon!!! Practicing Perfect Pitch is like playing Pokemon Go!!! XD

  6. #55
    Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update: April 8, 2019 - Last week I only knew 54 chord voicings, this week I it went to 63. The reason why it ballooned up so much within a one week time frame was that my jazz piano teacher taught me brand new set of voicings that I will wallow for a while. Not only that I have used the loops of my daw to create exercises of determining a key of a song and quiz myself on it. For my relative pitch, I also created brand new exercises using my daw. I was contemplating of how to make the music that I have transcribed to fortify it in my memory. The idea just lightbulbed in my head and I discovered that I can make mp3s of isolated sections where there is a phrase or a progression of real music and fortify it in my memory for good.

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update: April 8, 2019 - Last week I only knew 54 chord voicings, this week I it went to 63. The reason why it ballooned up so much within a one week time frame was that my jazz piano teacher taught me brand new set of voicings that I will wallow for a while. Not only that I have used the loops of my daw to create exercises of determining a key of a song and quiz myself on it. For my relative pitch, I also created brand new exercises using my daw. I was contemplating of how to make the music that I have transcribed to fortify it in my memory. The idea just lightbulbed in my head and I discovered that I can make mp3s of isolated sections where there is a phrase or a progression of real music and fortify it in my memory for good.
    So have you given up on developing perfect pitch?

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update: April 8, 2019 - Last week I only knew 54 chord voicings, this week I it went to 63. The reason why it ballooned up so much within a one week time frame was that my jazz piano teacher taught me brand new set of voicings that I will wallow for a while. Not only that I have used the loops of my daw to create exercises of determining a key of a song and quiz myself on it. For my relative pitch, I also created brand new exercises using my daw. I was contemplating of how to make the music that I have transcribed to fortify it in my memory. The idea just lightbulbed in my head and I discovered that I can make mp3s of isolated sections where there is a phrase or a progression of real music and fortify it in my memory for good.
    When you say you "learned" voicings are you identifying what they are by name and then singing back the notes that make them up? I may be the only one confused, but every time I have seen someone demonstrate perfect pitch they can identify and sing everything thrown at them. Is that what you are doing?

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    So have you given up on developing perfect pitch?
    Nope! Gonna develop Perfect Pitch for the rest of my life!

  10. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200 View Post
    When you say you "learned" voicings are you identifying what they are by name and then singing back the notes that make them up? I may be the only one confused, but every time I have seen someone demonstrate perfect pitch they can identify and sing everything thrown at them. Is that what you are doing?
    Yes, I am identifying the voicings by absolute name...but I don't sing them back, because there are already solfege exercises that I am already doing and singing stuff by Perfect Pitch will mess me up. Speaking of singing the pitches...I discovered that I can identify a melody without transcribing but by singing the melody back using solfege. I had a lot of success stories using this method last week.

  11. #60
    Perfect Pitch Update April 14, 2014 - Last Week, I only learned 63 chord voicings by absolute name. This week I unlocked 70 chord voicings. But what I like to share is that I had an epiphany with Perfect Pitch this week. Remember I told you guys that I am already dealing with semitone chord movement such as a G chord going to an Ab chord. Yes it's more difficult to distinguish...but not impossible..as I discover that each root note of the chord has its own unique color, flavor, or characteristic that separates a G chord from an Ab chord and so on. Also I was watching some Perfect Pitch Youtube videos this week and I found a kid born with Perfect Pitch. I've seen all those Dylan Beato videos and they don't intimidate me as I know that I'll rival his level of Perfect Pitch someday. Now back to this video...At the very end, the kid is being snarky and condescending by testing people like us if we have Perfect Pitch or not, which is offensive to the intellect. Anyways, in the test, I got everything right except the A augmented, which is a chord that I haven't covered yet, as I am still doing Major and Minor Triads. But that is a proof that adults can develop Perfect Pitch if they practice it.


  12. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    I've seen all those Dylan Beato videos and they don't intimidate me as I know that I'll rival his level of Perfect Pitch someday.....I got everything right except the A augmented, which is a chord that I haven't covered yet, as I am still doing Major and Minor Triads. But that is a proof that adults can develop Perfect Pitch if they practice it.

    You must be very young. Why is it so important to you that you need to (or even can) prove anything on an online forum ? You expressed your opinion and people disagreed with you. This is a scientific subject with many studies (some of these studies recruit participants online if you want to test yourself objectively) showing that you are most likely wrong. Arguably, you may be correct that you are an exceptional human (you can get tested by a professional audiologist or do the random online tests). However, ear training is overall useful for your music practice. I just hope that in the future you won't feel bad for the many hours you MIGHT be spending disproportionately on pitch recognition training instead of more fun (in my opinion) things like learning tunes, rhythms, interesting harmonies and improvising skills.

    Learning to let go is an important skill in life. Please think of this as humble advice from a much older forum member who is attempting to help your music improve.

    The good thing is unlike bodybuilders who take steroids to improve beyond their genetic make up, you can't really hurt yourself with excessive pitch recognition training (other than losing lots of time).

    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  13. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by medblues View Post
    You must be very young. Why is it so important to you that you need to (or even can) prove anything on an online forum ? You expressed your opinion and people disagreed with you. This is a scientific subject with many studies (some of these studies recruit participants online if you want to test yourself objectively) showing that you are most likely wrong. Arguably, you may be correct that you are an exceptional human (you can get tested by a professional audiologist or do the random online tests). However, ear training is overall useful for your music practice. I just hope that in the future you won't feel bad for the many hours you MIGHT be spending disproportionately on pitch recognition training instead of more fun (in my opinion) things like learning tunes, rhythms, interesting harmonies and improvising skills.

    Learning to let go is an important skill in life. Please think of this as humble advice from a much older forum member who is attempting to help your music improve.

    The good thing is unlike bodybuilders who take steroids to improve beyond their genetic make up, you can't really hurt yourself with excessive pitch recognition training (other than losing lots of time).

    Thank you for the kind advice. But you have to understand of where I came from. I decided to take ear training more seriously, because when I was composing, improvising, playing and all that fun stuff I hit into a lot of brick wall and failures year after year after year. I investigated my musical problems and it's all connected to having bad ears. Since I have been training my ear a lot this year 2019, my recent compositions and jamming (sing what you play) have been much better than before. Now I feel confident of selling my recent original music online (Tunecore).

  14. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    Thank you for the kind advice. But you have to understand of where I came from. I decided to take ear training more seriously, because when I was composing, improvising, playing and all that fun stuff I hit into a lot of brick wall and failures year after year after year. I investigated my musical problems and it's all connected to having bad ears. Since I have been training my ear a lot this year 2019, my recent compositions and jamming (sing what you play) have been much better than before. Now I feel confident of selling my recent original music online (Tunecore).
    "having bad ears" can mean many things and like myself and others said, there is no harm in ear training and there is great benefit for many aspects of music performance. What you might be obsessing and may want to be cautious about is the overemphasis on the "absolute/perfect pitch recognition" component. No one will argue with you about the great benefits of relative pitch training (interval recognition), rhythm recognition and duplication, reproducing melodies by ear etc. none of which require absolute pitch.

    Best of luck !
    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  15. #64
    Continue with your studies only if you are seeing the results in your playing.

    I've committed 10+ years to relative pitch CONTEXTUAL ear training (not interval training) and the reason that I keep studying is because it continues to open new doors in my own musicality, particularly in my improvisation.

    I ear train everyday, 3-4 times a day, for 10-15 minutes each session. However, all that practice is done when I am away from my instrument.

    I practice hearing notes against a tonality, singing notes against a tonality, hearing dyads and triads and defining them by a reference note (C), sight singing, as well as other studies.

    That said, these studies are specifically done before I touch my guitar or when I am walking, driving, or flying on a plane.

    A HUGE part of ear training, that can't be over looked, is listening to as much music as possible. Immerse yourself in the language.

    And, I might add, ear training should never take the place of tune learning or technical aspects of the guitar. Rather, ear training should compliment all areas of your study of music.

    Like I said, I've spent more than 10 years studying the Banacos Contextual Ear Training Method. Ear training isn't a one and done process, but it's only useful if you actually use it in your playing.

    Once I get to Seattle, I'll continue my Ear Training Journal. Feel free to check it out if you'd like.

    All that said, your playing won't be worth dirt if you don't focus on rhythm, pulse, space, and dynamics. I practice my time with a metronome that only marks the measure, not the beat. That said, rhythm, pulse, space, and dynamics can only be really ingrained through listening to people play. That's true in all music, whether it be bluegrass, blues, funk, gospel, classical, jazz, or hip hop.

  16. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Continue with your studies only if you are seeing the results in your playing.


    All that said, your playing won't be worth dirt if you don't focus on rhythm, pulse, space, and dynamics. I practice my time with a metronome that only marks the measure, not the beat. That said, rhythm, pulse, space, and dynamics can only be really ingrained through listening to people play. That's true in all music, whether it be bluegrass, blues, funk, gospel, classical, jazz, or hip hop.
    And just to repeat, if you get all of the above right and play all the wrong notes and everyone will think you are just playing "outside"
    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  17. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by medblues View Post
    "having bad ears" can mean many things and like myself and others said, there is no harm in ear training and there is great benefit for many aspects of music performance. What you might be obsessing and may want to be cautious about is the overemphasis on the "absolute/perfect pitch recognition" component. No one will argue with you about the great benefits of relative pitch training (interval recognition), rhythm recognition and duplication, reproducing melodies by ear etc. none of which require absolute pitch.

    Best of luck !
    I don't think I'm spending time with Perfect Pitch that long let's see:

    Perfect Pitch exercises created by me:

    Single Notes - 5 min
    Two Notes - 5 min
    Three four five six seven notes etc - coming soon
    Triads - 5 min
    Voicing Studies 1 - 10 min
    Voicing Studies 2 - 10 min (optional if I have an off day with the other categories)
    Voicings 1 - 15 min (There's like 34 chords in here) (My limit is 50)
    Voicings 2 - coming soon
    Guess the Key - 5 min (This is my personal favorite)

    Total - 50 min (sometimes it's less than that)

    I don't even spend an hour with Perfect Pitch. Once I have the new set of exercises, I will just do a rotation. The relative pitch is the one where I go crazy.

    Charlie Banacos - 15 min
    Melody Dictation - 30 min
    Transcribe Melody - 5 songs (15 min each)
    Transcribe Chords - 5 songs (15 min each)
    Review Transcribed Melodies Quiz - 5 min
    Review Transcribed Chords Quiz - 5 min
    Practice songs for the church - 1 hour (I do this every weekend)

    Total - Almost 5 hours

    Not to mention I practice guitar for another 3 hours. Leaving me only 15 min to compose, jam, and other minor activities, then I call it a day. So if I wake up at 5 am I'll be done around 11 at night.(FYI I don't have a part-time job and I'm done school lol)

  18. #67
    I can't commit to those types of hours, what with a kid and a job...

    But I did long hours at college.

    Anyway, as someone who's also obsessed with ear training I'd give one piece of advice:

    Practice in short intervals many times a day. 2 hours straight of ear training ain't gonna do any good.

    That's why I limit myself to ten minute intervals 3-4 times a day (or more).

    It sticks more. There's definitely a psychological explanation to it, but I don't have the time to search it up at this second.

  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    I don't think I'm spending time with Perfect Pitch that long...
    You're not, you're only spending a few seconds because after the first note it is all relative pitch.
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  20. #69
    For transcription, perfect pitch could be helpful.

    But for composition, whether it is planned out or done in the moment (improvisation), relative pitch is way more helpful. The sounds created in music always behave within a sonic context. That context could be a chord, a progression, a rhythm, a pulse, or even an "atonal" pitch set (I'm starting to believe that atonal music is actually a myth).

    Like I said before, I understand your obsession with ear training. To be honest, I've gotten a lot of shite for my own posts about ear training over here at JGF. I think my post on Giant Steps made me quite infamous around these parts . Few people place a premium on developing the ear, and that's a darn shame. So I'm glad to hear of another person on the path to better his ears.

    That said, I think you should find a mentor to guide your studies. From the world of Charlie Banacos, there's Gary Dial and Bruce Arnold (that I know of). I've studied with Bruce Arnold and I still keep in touch with him to guide my studies.

    Maybe developing perfect pitch is a worthwhile endeavor for you. But don't try to reinvent the wheel and don't just find courses on the internet and wish for the best. Find someone who has already tread your path.

    “If you want me again look for me under your bootsoles.
    You will hardly know who I am or what I mean,
    But I shall be good help to you nevertheless
    And filter and fiber your blood.
    Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged,
    Missing me one place search another,
    I stop some where waiting for you”


    --W.W.
    Last edited by Irez87; 04-14-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  21. #70
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    Musical activities always begin and end with the ear.

  22. #71
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    I notice Bruce Arnold has products that claim to teach absolute pitch.

    Has anyone actually got direct experience of developing pitch in adulthood? Apparently it comes in handy for Webern....

  23. I've never ever been after perfect pitch myself.. except a few attempts to decide if its possible to get it good enough to rely on this. Which turned out to be "hell no".

    But after some years of relative pitch training, occasionally I have been nailing a note or chord on guitar by ear without any established reference. Picked it up, and felt confident that the note or chord is the right one against what was played. So the physical guitar playing has got closer to what the vocal cords are already doing by default.

    So I know for my own experience that the topic is not as black&white as they tend to paint it in.

    Furthermore - "don't do this, instead do that" in practice can be bad advice when the practice time is "relative" also. All it takes is to get enthused and the time magically becomes well spent anyways. Honestly, I've done some dumb routines but never ever regret any of that. And few of those even became useful much later. The point is - we got so many years with the guitar. That means a lot of hours for experimenting and side quests. That's true even when we got very limited time in each day.
    Last edited by emanresu; 04-15-2019 at 09:05 AM.

  24. #73
    Would you rather pay to see a musician who spent the last five years developing perfect pitch and solfege or one that used that time to work on their pulse, rhythm, command on harmony, improvisation devices, story telling, learning tunes, studying masters, playing with other musicians etc.
    There is always opportunity cost associated with how you spend your valuable practice time.

  25. There is valuable practice time that no one can argue against having to spend it wisely.
    And then some lucky people have more. For experimentation. It boggles me how people can go on literally bashing even the idea of trying it out. This makes no sense to me.

    edit: sorry for the wrong usage of the term "literally"

  26. #75
    The more details we perceive about the music we are playing, studying or casually listening to,
    the better prepared we are to make a musical contribution. The ability to hear isolated notes/chords
    doesn't preclude also understanding musical context. The ability to hear notes in a context doesn't
    preclude hearing individual notes/chords once the tonal area is confirmed.
    There are many musical details to listen for beyond the notes. These include rhythm, form, dynamics,
    tone color, phrasing/articulation, the silences, being aware of what is not there, etc.
    The ability to hear, regardless of category is exceptionally important.

    For me, I developed what I like to call "imperfect pitch". In my first experiences in ear training classes,
    I was often guessing, there was an element of luck each time I knew a correct answer. In years that followed,
    I played a dirth of gigs that required learning full song lists from cassette tapes. At first I was just another fool,
    plunking notes until I established a key center or an individual note or chord. Over time I noticed while listening
    to music, I could hear the chords at pitch (most of the time, I was/am capable of being wrong). In a way it was
    annoying, I would find myself mentally naming chords while listening casually, thankfully I learned to turn this
    on and off. I would also have blank spots particularly with altered chords and harmonies not part of my common
    vocabulary at the time. I would perceive it as an F dominant chord with something crunchy or an Bb major sound
    with an interesting color. Around this time, I started to do a lot of arpeggio and chord inversion and harmonized
    scales practice. I found this began to unmask for me an increased collection of harmonic sounds that were
    formerly vague. At this forum, I have heard people refer to something they called "pitch memory".
    This makes sense to me, I spend/have spent a lot of time around music. All this said, I have much room for
    growth in the perception part of my musical development, a lifetime pursuit I suspect.

  27. #76
    Let me just remind that the purpose of posting a thread in the forum is to get a variety of opinions and points of views around on the topic. Some will disagree and state their reasons, some will suggest different alternatives, some will find what OP suggests a game changing insight. Forum is not a group therapy session where the role of the members is expected to be confined to patting the OP in the back and send words of encouragement.

    Spending 5 hours a day on ear training and leaving very little time (or energy) for anything else rings false to me at a very fundamental level. Ear training should be grounded in practical situations. It should be done to address problems and short comings one experiences during performance or composition. Like technique, ear is not a goal in it's own right.
    Do you want to be able to compose without your instrument but find it very hard? Are you having problems hearing chord extensions the comping instrument plays when you're soloing? etc.
    When one works on ear to fix practical short comings, the process gets infinitely more productive. That's because, every activity becomes ear training. You start paying attention to that aspect when you are practising other things, learning tunes or listening to music. You are paying attention and being mindful.
    Let's say you want to get better at hearing chord extensions. Then when you are learning a tune, you aren't just learning the chords, you start paying attention to how the extensions sound. You start doing activities around it. When you don't hear you sing them, try to identify them when you're listening recording or play the primary triad and sing the extension then play it etc. Then may be do 15 mins more targeted work here and there. The important thing is your'e very aware and conscious and it pops it's head all the time when you don't have it because it is a practical short coming.

  28. Thinking about alchemy and the obsession for making gold.. Now it's actually possible to make gold.. of course it's a tad expensive but still - entirely possible. Thanks to the knowledge about how the matter is constructed at the microscopic level.

    Not too long ago the brain was just a lump of fat and no one knew anything about what's really going on there. Brain science is still in its infancy or just about to grow out of it. Who knows what will happen in a few decades from now. "not possible ever to learn perfect pitch as adult" - this could very well change entirely some day. Until it does, we're all just as good as the old school alchemists

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Let me just remind that the purpose of posting a thread in the forum is to get a variety of opinions and points of views around on the topic. Some will disagree and state their reasons, some will suggest different alternatives, some will find what OP suggests a game changing insight. Forum is not a group therapy session where the role of the members is expected to be confined to patting the OP in the back and send words of encouragement.
    Can you explain why is "don't do it, do something else instead" kind of advice good for anything?

  30. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    Can you explain why is "don't do it, do something else instead" kind of advice good for anything?
    By "don't do it, do something else instead" do you mean someone suggesting an alternative that they believe is more productive then what OP proposes and outlining reasons for it?
    I don't know of a way to explain that this would actually be a legitimate contribution to an online forum without that coming off possibly condescending

  31. #80
    I reworded my post above a bit. I didn't mean it in a harsh way. But considering the controversial nature of the suggestion of adults ability to acquire perfect pitch, not having a single disagreeing voice in the thread would have been very disappointing. If that doesn't bring about a lively discussion then they might as well close the site
    Last edited by Tal_175; 04-15-2019 at 11:17 AM.

  32. I liked OP's max-attitude and therefore I gladly would rather give kudos for trying. I've seen this mentality prevail quite a few times with stranger things than perfect pitch. He didn't even mention what his specific musical goals are and people assumed instantly he is doing it wrong.

    edit: heh. right now after wasting so much time writing posts here while should have been practicing, I let my program play a random chord and I felt playing the root of it. Nailed that! Without any relative help. Haha

  33. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    edit: heh. right now after wasting so much time writing posts here while should have been practicing, I let my program play a random chord and I felt playing the root of it. Nailed that! Without any relative help. Haha
    I know, I try to limit my forum time to times I cannot practice. Sometimes it just slips.
    I do chordal ear training by exporting audio from Ireal pro. When I'm learning a new tune, I find it in Ireal pro, while trying not to look at the chords, I set the tempo to something slow and export it. Then loop it in transcibe or something, until I get all the chords. You also learn about comping/harmonic devices that are employed in the app. You have the exact chords to check your transcription against after. I first try to identify the chord quality and extensions used (if any) before finding the key. Of course it's better to transcribe chords directly from the records but that's after I get faster doing it this way.
    I do learn heads from the records always.

  34. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I notice Bruce Arnold has products that claim to teach absolute pitch.

    Has anyone actually got direct experience of developing pitch in adulthood? Apparently it comes in handy for Webern....
    I've never used the perfect pitch stuff from Bruce. And if you talk to Bruce about Webern, he'll say that it's not atonal music. Rather, it is music that rapidly moves through key centers. If you really have a handle on relative pitch, you can improvise in Webern's style. I can't... Bruce can

    That said (how many times have I said that here), I'm not going to discourage Jason's journey anymore because I know how my own excitement was received in these parts. I think this thread just brought back those frustrations for me. Everyone's journey in music is a little different. Embrace those differences because that's what makes music so interesting.

    Do whatever moves you. Perfect pitch, or else wise.

  35. #84
    Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update - This week April 25, 2019 I already learned 85 voicings and closing in on 100. My goal is to reach 200 this year. My piano teacher is teaching me a different set of voicings that's why I have a new set every week. So it's an attainable goal. As for the Relative Pitch, on my way to piano lessons, in the car, I was listening to an Andrew Lloyd Webber Jesus Christ Superstar song called Mary Magdalene (I believe that's the title I didn't look it up) I was able to recognize the entire opening passage - mi mi fa mi re do la sol- fa mi re do re- the notes just popped out! I checked on the keyboard and I was right! I guess the melody dictation and transcribing that I have been doing is starting to pay off. Also in my melody dictation I already completed the series of 4 note melodies starting on the scale degree 1 within the G3-C5 range. Now I'm moving on to the scale degree 2.

  36. #85
    Perfect Pitch Update - May 4, 2019 - I finally reached the milestone of learning 100 chord voicings by absolute pitch. My goal is to reach 200 chord voicings and it seems that I am on my way of achieving that. There might be a possibility I might learn 300 chord voicings...who knows...only time will tell.

  37. #86
    Perfect Pitch Update - May 13, 2019 - I have now unlocked 110 chord voicings exceeding the 100. Also with the Perfect Pitch Harmonic Intervals/Diads...I am still only at 10 variables and I am stuck there for a while. The single notes I am stuck with only 21 piano keys. I am progressing very well with the Charlie Banacos. I am working with the single notes with Functional Ear Trainer and the 2 and 3 note chords, I used my own tools and it's coming along nicely. What I'm hoping to do with all of these is that in the near future, I will upload it into a youtube video and change the way people think about Perfect Pitch. I also notice that the Perfect Pitch videos on Youtube are barren and stuck with the same old videos...Also most of the people demonstrating there Perfect Pitch are children...I like to change that....If the whole world sees an early 30's adult demonstrating Perfect Pitch...and the more I do it...maybe Rick Beato will delete his Adults Can't Develop Perfect Pitch Youtube videos.

  38. #87
    Rick Beato won't do that because he's...

    not a nice fellow (I caught myself)

    He has some interesting stuff up on Youtube, but he's very narrow minded. It's either how he thinks of music or the highway.

    Don't even get me started with his views on music education K-12th grade (US system)

    I'm still hurt by those videos.

    Just do your thing, and if it catches on, so be it. Don't worry about Rick Beato.

    I'd be interested (sincerely) how you use perfect pitch to further your knowledge of improvisation and communication on the band stand. That's why I study relative pitch--to further my understanding of improvisation, communication, and how music works.

  39. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Rick Beato won't do that because he's...

    not a nice fellow (I caught myself)

    He has some interesting stuff up on Youtube, but he's very narrow minded. It's either how he thinks of music or the highway.

    Don't even get me started with his views on music education K-12th grade (US system)

    I'm still hurt by those videos.

    Just do your thing, and if it catches on, so be it. Don't worry about Rick Beato.

    I'd be interested (sincerely) how you use perfect pitch to further your knowledge of improvisation and communication on the band stand. That's why I study relative pitch--to further my understanding of improvisation, communication, and how music works.
    I'm glad you asked me of how I'll use Perfect Pitch. When it comes to improvisation and a band setting, Perfect Pitch is very useful to determine the Key of a Song. TBH I don't have that skill yet, but I am working on it with dozens of tonality exercises where I use several loops of my DAW and configure it with different keys and also I use real music, quizzing myself with them. I am sick and tired of constantly asking the keyboardist what key the song is in every time I play at church. But in my experience with improvisation and playing in bands is that once you have the key figured out, the rest of the faculties you are using is relative pitch.

    I also like to thank you of having the same views of Rick Beato that he is narrow minded. If you search "ear training" on Youtube, you'll find that it is infested with a lot of Rick Beato videos. In the videos, he doesn't really teach you how to develop a good ear, he just puts his son with PP and demonstrate that ear training is impossible or at least that's how I'm seeing it. And yes several of his videos have infuriated and gave me bad feelings.

    When it comes to ear training found in Youtube, You should check out Jeff Schneider. He has a lot of great things to say on the Charlie Banacos Method. One of my favorite quotes from him was something he got from Charlie: People born with Perfect Pitch don't have to work acquiring it. Normal people like us who don't have Perfect Pitch have to work as twice as hard. But when a non-AP individual acquires Perfect Pitch thru practice he is at that same level of that person born with Perfect Pitch. Forgive me, I'm bad at quoting. But I believe Charlie is referring to that stage when you're already mastered identifying 7-10 note chords and you are already identifying voicings and multiple layers of orchestration by ear. That what I like to accomplish with the Charlie Banacos Method so I'm excited!!!

  40. #89
    Yeah, I've watched a bunch of Jeff's videos.

    But I think there's more than just key identification with all this ear training.

    For me, it's about really communicating with others--and editing out all the bullshite from your playing. If you can really hear where the harmony is going, and you can hear a line in your head, then you won't be tempted to use musical diarrhea--the really watery kind (I change a lot of diapers).

    In an interview Peter Berstein did years back, he said that he wasn't at all worried about competing with guitarists who had ten times his technique. He was searching for musical purity, and communicating an idea in its most distilled form.

    George Benson does this as well, even though his lines are more dense. No bullshite.

    There's plenty others. Oh, let's add Charlie Parker to the list--no bullshite. A lot of notes, yes--but each note had a purpose in the drive and story that his music told.

    That's why I train my ear--to get rid of the bullshite and really communicate with others--whether it's in my accompaniment or my line playing.

    That, and being able to take theory and sing it--you know what I mean. We might be skinning the jazzcat a wee bit differently, but I think we're after the same hide--no?

    Don't go telling people here that I don't like Rick Beato. Half of JGF had pitchforks in hand when I started talking about my own ear training journey. That said, I am a bit obsessive about Contextual Ear Training--and that comes across and can be abrasive.

  41. Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    I am sick and tired of constantly asking the keyboardist what key the song is in every time I play at church. But in my experience with improvisation and playing in bands is that once you have the key figured out, the rest of the faculties you are using is relative pitch.
    Just to give heads-up. Deducting a key doesn't even need perfect pitch. You play one single note against the chords and it's entirely trainable to start playing in that key instantly. Also when improvising, it's entirely possible to train to play in key through difficult songs with lots of modulations without ever having to think about "this is Fm7, this is C#7... etc". The sad part is, the quality of such impro is disgusting at first Gets better eventually but IMO takes more effort to get it right than going the sensible way.

  42. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    5,355
    To both Irez87 and Jason Sioco,

    What would make this thread interesting is if you would post your playing (including your own tunes) as you progress through ear training. That is what's relevant in my opinion and would be interesting to follow. This is a jazz guitar forum so I'm assuming that the objective of all this work is to improve your ability to play jazz.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  43. #92
    Very interesting point was made in a recent Adam Neely Q&A video regarding bandleaders who seem to be able to sing a song in the correct key (without playing their instrument) yet do not have perfect pitch. This is becaue they are acutely aware of the timbre of their instrument after playing it for so many years. So guitar player, for example, may automatically "know" the sound of the low E without referring to the instrument and without having perfect pitch.

    Discussion starts at about 4:20


  44. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    5,355
    I spent a lot of time on ear training. 4 semesters in college (torture and I wasn't a music major!). I'm embarassed to say I bought the Burge perfect pitch and relative pitch courses (probably 30 years ago, could have bought a nice guitar instead).

    There are a group of jazz musicians that get a lot of gigs in San Diego, they all know each other, and are interchangeable parts. Say in a week where one of these guys/gals play 4 gigs, they might play 100 different tunes. They can learn tunes on the fly on the bandstand. Some have perfect pitch, some don't.

    One day I was taking a guitar lesson from one of these guys. We started talking about all the ear training I was working on. Singing intervals, modes, transcribing bach chorals without an instrument. This pro said, "I can't do any of that".

    Well that made me rethink the whole thing. What he could do is listen to a jazz tune that he didn't know and hear the changes, he'd say something like, that chorus is like Back Home in Indiana, and that part of the verse is the same as All of Me. That takes experience, a good memory, and yes a bit of an ear but not at the micro level like I was trying to develop. I thought that was all I needed to be able to do, that is much more practical.

    This is why I question the whole micro level ear training. Just my opinion, I think the best ear training for ones advancement at playing the guitar is learning a lot of tunes and playing often a lot of tunes and having a couple 100 tunes that you know. And, you are developing your playing at the same time as developing your ear.

    I'm still interested in improving/learning but no longer aspire to play at a pro level. So, for me it's just all for the fun of it. As such the only ear training I do is transcribing when I'm learning a tune off of a recording. I do enjoy that.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  45. Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I
    I'm still interested in improving/learning but no longer aspire to play at a pro level. So, for me it's just all for the fun of it. As such the only ear training I do is transcribing when I'm learning a tune off of a recording. I do enjoy that.
    Yeah, these "pro-level" ambitions can die off some time and give more space to just enjoy what we already can do - which is still a LOT But this is derailing.. sorry.

  46. #95
    Fep,

    I have posted my playing, on the Performance Ear Training thread, quite a few posts.

    I don't compose original material, I wish I did.

    Transcription is HUGE--I even said that in my own thread. Contextual Ear Training won't magically teach you vocabulary. Neither will it miraculously teach you tunes.

    CTE helps me access the sounds I hear in my head, on the bandstand, and off the records--in the moment.

    I'll repost some of my own improvisations here (sorry to hijack your thread, Jason. I need to do this before the pitch forks come out)

    Sophisticated Lady, my solo starts at 6:40



    On the Street Where You Live, my solo starts at 5:02

    On The Street by Irez87 | Free Listening on SoundCloud

    Is it earth shattering stuff? No, but my playing is a hell of a lot closer to what I want to hear out of myself than it was before I started ear training.

    Both solos were taken without fully learning the tune OR looking at the music. Therefore, I sometimes lose the form.

  47. #96
    Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update - May 23, 2019 - I have already unlocked 120 chord voicings by absolute pitch. There's a particular category in my AP Practice where it's currently at 48 chord voicings...Once it reaches 50, I plan to convert that into a Youtube video. This involves recording the video screen on my laptop. I still have to learn the logistics of how to do it, when that time comes. My long term goal for Perfect Pitch is to fill Youtube with my Perfect Pitch videos to show that Perfect Pitch can be developed and learned, if you have the right tools and the right approach. As for the Relative Pitch, I usually extract chords of actual songs as a daily ritual, but this song is special. I have been listening to this band since I was a teenager and this particular song I have been listening for many years. One day I listened to this song for my enjoyment, when suddenly there were a bunch of functional chords that jumped out of me, while listening that I decided to extract the chords of the entire song by ear and I accomplished it. If you're wondering what song it is, here it is...


  48. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Sioco View Post
    while listening that I decided to extract the chords of the entire song by ear and I accomplished it.
    So when are you going to post an youtube of you playing. I'd love to hear what someone with a great ear like yours is capable of

  49. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    So when are you going to post an youtube of you playing. I'd love to hear what someone with a great ear like yours is capable of
    I'm more interested in the implications this would have for brain plasticity and I'm sure the OP will be written up in a journal of neuroscience if he can demonstrate that he developed true PP as an adult.

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