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  1. #51

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    While an interesting discussion I know I am benefiting from, I believe SightReadingSucks has left the building.
    Check out my tracks at www.soundcloud.com/billmcmannis

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Yeah, screw that guy :-)

  4. #53

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    Hi,

    I found this image on the web a few years ago, could not trace its source. Maybe you find it useful.

    Sight reading on guitar is making me want to kill myself. Please help.-sight-read-guitar-jpg

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alder Statesman View Post
    While an interesting discussion I know I am benefiting from, I believe SightReadingSucks has left the building.
    Still trying to figure out how sight reading is a dog whistle to stoke my racial fears and make me vote against my own economic interests, but I did read that the Russians are getting ever more sophisticated.

  6. #55

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    Oh, they read the fly sh*t off a paper.

    BTW Rob is a great reader, judging by his videos. Why doesn‘t he chime in? Too busy with his 10 string?


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  7. #56

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    So, OP out of the discussion, I'll share this with the rest of us. I had lunch with a friend of mine who teaches at NEC, they've got some really talented musicians there. In his ensemble a bass player asked about reading skills. Classically trained players often have reading ability but not on the level necessary for jazz gigging or studio work. A discussion ensued. Great tips. Seasoned insights. A few takeaways:
    Work 5-10 minutes a day. The learning curve diminishes after a while and frustration can be counter productive, even negating in some situations.
    Mix it up. Take a line, read it backwards, rhythmicize it and be creative with the finite reading elements contained within that day's material. It sharpens the ear and keeps it alive. Creativity is a drive within itself.
    Take a line, use your own sense of dynamics. It imparts a sense of lyric, brings it from mere "reading" to music.

    There were a bunch more, but I thought these were really useful.

    Hope this can add something to our discussion here.

    David

  8. #57

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    OP may have been just a troll, or an impatient student who in reality hasn't been reading music that long.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave70 View Post
    OP may have been just a troll, or an impatient student who in reality hasn't been reading music that long.
    Or more likely, with all this advice was taken, he's become an excellent sight reader without peer, has gotten a studio job in a high profile LA studio and no longer needs the advice of the forum.
    On his behalf, I'd like to thank you all.
    The issue of mental retardation will be decided at a later time on a different forum.

    David

  10. #59
    He probably already spent all the studio money on coke and women. I mean - the discussion took that long

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    He probably already spent all the studio money on coke and women. I mean - the discussion took that long
    Is this the voice of experience? Some of us have all the luck.
    David

  12. #61

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    I think it was like that back in the 80s....

    Which is when this thread started....

  13. #62
    I bet snorting coke would speed up sight reading.

  14. #63

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    Best thing I ever did to improve from a guy who could read a lead sheet to a guy who can play in a big band, was to join a reading band (aka rehearsal band) with arrangements that often had the guitar playing the role of a fifth horn.

    Having to phrase with a horn section quickly shows you your mistakes and where the bar should be.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    I bet snorting coke would speed up sight reading.
    Probably a good idea for beginners, who often lack confidence in this area.

    OTOH they may spend the entire evening talking about what a great sight reader they are.

    It's a high risk strategy, but I'll try it in the next lesson, and get back to the forum with my findings.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Having to phrase with a horn section quickly shows you your mistakes and where the bar should be.
    Don't horn players always rush though?

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Probably a good idea for beginners, who often lack confidence in this area.

    OTOH they may spend the entire evening talking about what a great sight reader they are.

    It's a high risk strategy, but I'll try it in the next lesson, and get back to the forum with my findings.
    often times this approach leads to getting kicked out of Amicci's for challenging the Saturday night keyboard player to a sight reading duel by slapping a copy of Wohlfahrt studies on his music stand in an aggressive manner.

    ymmv
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  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    Don't horn players always rush though?
    My comment about the "bar" referred to the standard for reading, not the bar line.

    As far as horn players rushing, I think I drag enough that it seems like everybody is rushing.

    To flesh this out just a bit ... When you play melody in a small group, you are free to interpret the line. You can start notes early or late, slide into them, and release them as you like. When you play with horns you'll find that the horns "melt" into one sound. They start and stop notes at the same instant. They also read the various articulation marks.

    So, when I started doing it, I could often hear the guitar note as an individual sound, not melting into the horn section. To "melt in", I had to learn to start and stop notes at exactly the same time as the horns. Also, to read the articulation marks and to make sure that slides, pull-offs, sweeps and so forth all sounded exactly right. It was an entire other level of reading.

    And all of that is quite beside being able to read a long syncopated line at high speed upon seeing the chart for the first time.

  19. #68

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    To the O.P. (providing you're still among the Living):

    Should you end it all, will you be leaving anything good behind?

    You know, nice guitars, a classic Ferrari, a pile of ca$h, real estate, an attractive girlfriend or ???



  20. #69

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    The following is some sight reading advice from Stevie Wonder:

  21. #70
    Speaking of reading, I saw this this morning looking at Christmas. This is an error I've seen a couple of times, and I honestly don't know how this is even possible, from a publishing perspective. I understand a wrong note here and there etc., but how can you make the whole thing be wrong in this fundamental way?

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Speaking of reading, I saw this this morning looking at Christmas. This is an error I've seen a couple of times, and I honestly don't know how this is even possible, from a publishing perspective. I understand a wrong note here and there etc., but how can you make the whole thing be wrong in this fundamental way?
    Christmas sheet music in the public domain is butchered regularly, especially since the computer era. I hope you don't think highly skilled and paid folks are doing this work and proofreading it too. I see so much stuff that are just copies of copies of mistakes.
    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 10-20-2018 at 02:36 AM.

  23. #72

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    This might be of interest. What caught my eye, apart from the ending, is that the piano part is notated normally with joined quavers whereas the vocal part is not.

    Infant Holy Infant Lowly

  24. #73

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    Yeah that’s normal for vocal parts. It’s to make it clearer to read with the lyrics.

  25. #74

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    But does it actually make it easier to read? Depends what you're used to, I expect.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    But does it actually make it easier to read? Depends what you're used to, I expect.
    Yes it does.

    I trained as a classical singer for a while. I wouldn't want tied quavers for separate syllables. Multiple vowel sounds (like in Italian music) on notes is bad enough lol.

    You will see conventional beaming when one vowel sound is used for multiple notes - in a melisma. For instance this page, Handel's Messiah, has both:

    Sight reading on guitar is making me want to kill myself. Please help.-hqdefault-jpg

  27. #76

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    These two are good:

    - William Leavitt series from Berklee (William Leavitt - Berklee Press)
    - Charlie Parker omnibook. Lots of repetition and woodshedding on common keys.

  28. #77

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    Yes it does.

    I trained as a classical singer for a while. I wouldn't want tied quavers for separate syllables. Multiple vowel sounds (like in Italian music) on notes is bad enough lol.

    You will see conventional beaming when one vowel sound is used for multiple notes - in a melisma. For instance this page, Handel's Messiah, has both:
    Interesting... I always sang, but began to take classical vocal lessons much later.. and I noticed that when I sight-read I did not care if it was tied or not at the beginnig... but later when I began to feel the difference of attacks from consonants and vowels, different ways of legato and all - I began to appreciate that untied way of writing...

    And also it helps when you have to read (really read) both music and words at a time

  29. #78

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    Underemphasized in the replies, I think, is that different guitarists find different things to be obstacles in sightreading. If you determine what specifically is a hurdle for you, you can focus on it and progress much faster. For example, I find many students whose primary problem is reading rhythms are spending their time reading classical studies that, while great, do not contain the syncopations and variety that give them trouble. Or, they keep looking away from the music to look at where their fingers are on the guitar neck and are not even aware they're doing so.

    If your problem is knowing where the notes are on the fretboard, work on exercises for that, and practice playing the same thing on different fret/string combinations.

    If rhythm is an obstacle for you, check out The Rhythm Book - Beginning Sight-Reading by Rory Stuart (and, once that's cool, the Intermediate book).

    If your problem is that you need to look at the fretboard to put your fingers in the right place, practice playing with your eyes closed.

    These are just some of the issues that may hold you back; the key, I think, is to identify what is *your* limiter and work on that.

  30. #79

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    I'll make a drive-by comment on this old thread: too much is made of how difficult it is to learn to sightread as an adult.

    Is it harder than when you are a little kid? sure. undoubtedly. But, wishing you were younger is like wishing you were taller.

    Sightreading is a skill that can be developed, and you can absolutely learn to read well as an adult, I did, and so did lots of other musicians better than me that needed to for work purposes. There are ways to ineffectively practice sightreading, and ways to effectively practice, like virtually everything. I suspect people that really, really struggle haven't worked out how to practice this skill efficiently.

    Some things that have been effective for me:

    1) Preparation: lots of great sightreaders I know are very good at scanning pieces before the first downbeat, looking for unfamiliar rhythms, odd accidentals, large skips, and instrument range considerations. This can, and should, be practiced. On the Wrecking Crew documentary, Tommy Tedesco mentions that he can't read everything, but knows how to find the important bits.

    2) Reading ahead: again, most great sightreaders I have talked to read fairly far ahead, their eye is ahead of the music. I think after a while this probably becomes unconscious, but I practice this consciously, as I naturally don't have a tendency to read very far ahead. If you are reading a piece that moves quickly, reading ahead is more important.

    3) "Map Reading": knowing the various signs (DC, DS, etc) how to interpret them, and how to navigate a chart in general is super important for virtually all big band situations. The Pat Metheny fake book is a great way to practice all these things, as are reading big band charts.

    4) Keeping your place while other stuff is happening: When I started to be a better reader, I'd notice that I could read things in my practice room fine, but with a big band, I'd get tripped up, because of counterlines and other things going on around me. Make sure you practice reading with other people, or with music playing.

    5) Note recognition: I honestly think writing music helps a lot with note recognition, and writing is an underrated way of practicing note recognition.

  31. #80

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    Here's a tip.

    If you're reading big band charts, particularly if you get stuck with a piano chart, sooner or later you're going to encounter something you can't read.

    Here's the tip:

    Stop playing, but keep counting.

    The key is to not lose your place while you're stumbling over a passage you can't read.

    Much better to omit things rather than get lost in the form.