Hearing the changes

[jordanklemons]

I have thought about trying to teach students who would be focused on learning jazz standards, but that is probably too narrow a 'business model'. But learning from a teacher would also be a major asset for you. Anyone think there is a potential market for that? Teaching focused on learning jazz standards for students who already know a bit about playing guitar.

Curious Jay. What would your teaching process or method be? Would you have a curriculum of some sort? Would you require your students to do anything in particular? Singing? Etc.

You would want to teach focused on learning jazz standards for students "who already know a bit about playing guitar," yes?

What would you require them to know first? What do you see as essential prior to getting to work on standards? How would you assess their basic skill level? If they didn't have what they needed yet, would you send them off to figure it out elsewhere? Or would you work with them to learn it? And if so, how would you approach teaching them this basic set of fundamental skills?

[Nate Miller]

basically, before I went off to college and studied music at school, that is how I learned to play. I learned certain standards in a sort of pedagogical order. This is also essentially how they taught improv at North Texas. First semester started off in modal tunes and by the third semester you were playing Giant Steps as a samba or something like that.

using music to teach music is always a good idea

[targuit]

Hi, Jordan! Hope your recovery is proceeding well.

Rather than misdirect the thread, I decided to send you my response to your questions as a PM. That way it won't distract from the flow of the thread. Remember I was speaking about how I would try to help someone find their way. But I don't want to get off track here.

[Groyniad]

a close friend who plays trumpet can play a tune - like say how deep is the ocean - after i have sung it to them once on the bandstand before we count it in. in fact - they sort of sing a long with me the first time - before having heard it. (although they've probably heard it haven't they? - they love jazz and have been playing for years...).

this stuff happens by itself without you realizing it is happening - if you try to make it happen you are probably nowhere near ready and your efforts will come to nothing.

it happens by itself if you use your ears to play the tunes you already know. i don't think it much matters how you learn them - what matters is that you play them without the book again and again and again and again.

and ideally you need to play them with people who can already really play them (so you can hear them properly when you play them again and again and again...).

genuine exposure to the tunes (not to the changes in isolation) does it to you - if you are listening. i suppose this exposure to the tunes can happen through endless hours of arranging as well as endless hours of actually playing...

to help yourself listen you should get used to singing the tunes and singing what you play on the tunes. singing when you're playing is important because it helps you to make sure that you are really listening not just doing something with your arms and hands.

the other thing is to be able to focus on 'simple tunes'. i can't believe that you're in love with me - out of nowhere - rhythm - this can't be love - indiana - i love you

if you crave clever tunes right from the start (as many people seem to) you can scupper this natural process.

[targuit]

There was a fellow here who use to say, "Time on your instrument." Very true.

In order to hear the changes with confidence you have to be able to anticipate where the harmony and melody are going. Creating a lead sheet with notation helps one learn the patterns and cycles in jazz harmony. A teacher could help. Time on the instrument. Working toward a concrete goal.

I suspect that the first step is to understand the chords of the progression of the standard in question. Then you learn to play through the song from start to finish, breaking down into phrases if you wish of four to eight measures at a time. It certainly helps to sing the melody as it helps you anticipate where it needs to go.

[plasticpigeon]

a close friend who plays trumpet can play a tune - like say how deep is the ocean - after i have sung it to them once on the bandstand before we count it in. in fact - they sort of sing a long with me the first time - before having heard it. (although they've probably heard it haven't they? - they love jazz and have been playing for years...).

this stuff happens by itself without you realizing it is happening - if you try to make it happen you are probably nowhere near ready and your efforts will come to nothing.

it happens by itself if you use your ears to play the tunes you already know. i don't think it much matters how you learn them - what matters is that you play them without the book again and again and again and again.

and ideally you need to play them with people who can already really play them (so you can hear them properly when you play them again and again and again...).

genuine exposure to the tunes (not to the changes in isolation) does it to you - if you are listening. i suppose this exposure to the tunes can happen through endless hours of arranging as well as endless hours of actually playing...

to help yourself listen you should get used to singing the tunes and singing what you play on the tunes. singing when you're playing is important because it helps you to make sure that you are really listening not just doing something with your arms and hands.

the other thing is to be able to focus on 'simple tunes'. i can't believe that you're in love with me - out of nowhere - rhythm - this can't be love - indiana - i love you

if you crave clever tunes right from the start (as many people seem to) you can scupper this natural process.

One of the tricks of learning, is knowing or even learning how to learn. As an engineer I'm quite good at maths and logic. I understand music theory to an extent, I understand where chords and scales come from and how they roughly function. I've not bothered leaning about modes of the melodic minor and advanced stuff like that (maybe one day), but i can understand the structure of most standards at a basic level. However from experience, I know I can play a blues in F for example without a chart as I've played it a lot. That doesn't mean I can just hear a new chord in a new way and insert it in the tune though. I have found that I can play a passable solo on a Blues in F and can be a bit creative with it, in other words I can start playing a few things that I haven't played before because I can hear a melody in my head and can sometimes get it down. This translates to other keys too. i can solo on a blues in any key really and get through, as I can hear it. I don't even know what the key is sometimes, I just know where the song is going. However I cannot do that with chords as chords are harder to hear for me. I know enough chords to mix it up in F or Bb, but in other keys, I either have to resort to simpler stuff that I can work out on the fly, and use a few set pieces, or would have to learn that specific key to make it more interesting. I really hope to be able to hear the chords as well as single lines in the course of my musical development, and I think to do this I have to make a conscious effort to stretch myself in that area. I'm certain it is possible to play very nicely using a huge brain and lots of maths and lots of understanding. I know people that do this! That is not my goal though, so I am exploring a new approach that will challenge me in a new way. I'm finding it really frustrating, but enlightening too. I nearly got through Misty (slowly) by ear with just the melody for reference!! I was overjoyed when I played what I would call an Am7b5 and looked at the chart to see a Cm7 written down. I'm not a natural musician, but I really think it is worth trying all sorts of different approaches to see which is best for the individual.

[emanresu]

Too much anxiety in the thread!
Try this:

[ronjazz]

Ear training via Solfege is how I got to hear the changes. The Pasquale Bona Method of Rhythmical Articulation, or the Dannhauser solfege book, with mindful application on a regular (daily) basis, will improve your ability to hear intervals and chords within a few weeks.