The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    What key is it in, Lawson?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    What key is it in, Lawson?
    He does it in Bb/Gm.

  4. #28

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    Recently I've starting working on Sonny Stitt's solo from 'The Eternal Triangle'. I’ve been learning it at home by ear only, and writing it down during my lunch break at work. It’s a long, fast solo, so I’ve decided to take it in small bites, one chorus at a time.

    As you all probably know, writing it down is the easy part. I use Transcribe! to slow it down and loop it, over and over, saturating my ear. After a while I begin to hum or scat along with it, learning one phrase at a time. Once have 4 or 8 bars down, I commit it to paper (or in this case, Sibelius).

    However, when I get home. I’ll work on it without reading the transcription. I try to keep them separate. Most of the time I have more of the solo on paper than under my fingers, so I’ll try to visualize the notation in my mind while practicing it on the guitar.

    Attached is the notation for the first chorus. I’ll try and post a video once I can play the entire chorus at a decent tempo, perhaps in the 145 – 165 bpm area.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dana; 05-20-2016 at 08:12 AM.

  5. #29

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    Dana--awesome work!

    Here's the latest thing I'm working on, Grant Green's solo on Ike Quebec's "blue and Sentimental."


  6. #30

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    So I meant to post more about this particular solo last night, but then I got distracted.

    This is one of those "perfect choruses" as I call them...and generally, I'm of the school of thought, if you can't say it in a chorus...well...maybe two.

    The things here I nboticed (and really before I even transcribed, but maybe a light bulb goes on after) is all the repeated motifs...the simplicity....the fact the whole thing pretty much stays in one area of the neck--with a small exception that creates a real "exclamation point" on the statement.

    I think it's absolutely brilliant. And it's all blues, really.

    I tell you--every time I lift something from GG (and I've lifted a lot over the years) I'm convinced he's the most underrated jazz guitar player ever. But then I remember how many albums he made on Blue Note during this same time...and I realize he certainly wasn't underrated by his fellow musicians.

  7. #31

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    Yea, Grant Green is the shit. I went through a period where all I did was try to play like him. I love his sense of rhythm and syncopation in his solos.

    I believe some of the jam band guys are influenced by him. Eric Krasno mentions GG as a major influence.

  8. #32

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    Does it really count as transcribing if you use a "gadget" to tell you the right notes. What's the point? I would say not more than repeated listening, maybe up to looper, should be "allowed". I don't mean for the purpose of this thread, but in general, if you're after "transcribing". I prefer to call it " taking of (the record) ". Maybe I misunderstood something, I'm not familiar with mentioned software applications.

    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Does it really count as transcribing if you use a "gadget" to tell you the right notes. What's the point? I would say not more than repeated listening, maybe up to looper, should be "allowed". I don't mean for the purpose of this thread, but in general, if you're after "transcribing". I prefer to call it " taking of (the record) ". Maybe I misunderstood something, I'm not familiar with mentioned software applications.

    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
    Not sure what you mean by "count" and "allowed"--I don't believe anyone is keeping score, right?

    In any case, software like "Transcribe" does not write out the notes for you. It just plays back the recording, with two important features--it lets you loop sections and also lets you slow down. (It does have a rudimentary function where it can try to guess what a particular note or chord is, but it doesn't work that well. I never use that, and I don't believe many other do either.)

    Transcribe! - software to help transcribe recorded music


    There are other brands that are generally similar.

  10. #34

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    Yeah, I think it depends on purpose.

    if the purpose is to get the notes right, use what tools you have.

    if the purpose is ear training, don't cheat...but as others have mentioned, Transcribe doesn't give you the notes...just slows stuff down...

    Theres some things few of us are going to be able to really hear, especially fast horn lines, smears, etc.

    Personally, I don't lift this stuff as what's the use really, if I can't actually play it?

    Although hearing how good that Stitt stuff at a slower tempo still sounds, I might be changin my tune on that. But generally, I like a recording, some staff paper, a pencil, and some headphones. The idea of sitting at a computer to transcribe doesn't sound like much fun to me. Just me personally, mind you. I'm in front of a computer too much due to the amount of "paperwork" that's required of teachers these days...

  11. #35

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    I don't believe in scoring points and think (self)cheating is bad. So, yes, what you've said there is about what I was thinking.
    Also, I believe ear training is only good for those who have some "ear" first place. Being hopelessly "deaf" and somewhat DEAF I never bought into it as separate skill practice. Therefore, I've never associated lifting from recordings with ear training.
    For me it's just learning how things are being done.

  12. #36

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    If you can... it's great training to try and write out whatever your transcribing. No instruments, Just use your ears and what becomes more important... your head to try and figure out as much as your able.

    You'll begin to hear and see all the other aspects of music... besides the actual sound of each note. It's not so much about just Ear training.

    I remember back as kid 1st day of music college... a teacher asking for someone to write out on caulk board a simple melody, and I couldn't believe no one could... So I jumped up and notated it out easily, from doing what I mentioned above.

  13. #37

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    I'm about 2 choruses deep into Kurt Rosenwinkels solo on "how deep is the ocean" off of the album intuit. My teacher told me to write it out to help my reading and writing. I'm going to probaby go up to the 3rd chorus. When I'm all done I'll try to put up a pic of the notation and a video of me playing it, in hopes that other players may find it useful.

  14. #38

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    An interesting point, Reg. I used an old, now broken, Tascam CD Trainer to transcribe. Pop in the CD, dial in the percent slow down of the original tempo, and you could also input your guitar so you could literally play along at the slower tempo over the original recording.

    The way I see it, the major factor in deciphering any solo - horn, guitar, piano - is the slow down factor. I could play any Charlie Parker or Dizzie Gillespie horn solo with ease. That, in turn, made it much easier both to transcribe as well as to hear the nuances of style. In the end, if transcription is the goal, anything that makes the process faster and easier is what I want.

    Now currently I only transcribe by ear for one simple reason. With finances tight during this damn Depression we are in for the last sixteen years or more, my wife would have my head on a stake for buying anything that is not necessary. I agree that learning to notate rhythms without an instrument would be a worthy goal, but frankly, I'm not trying to impress anyone. As it is, if I want to notate the melody to a song off a YT video, I simply listen to eight or sixteen measures and just play it into Sibelius with my Yamaha keyboard synth. That's it. If I have to 'clean up' the rhythm a bit afterwards, that is what I do. Sibelius is excruciatingly precise with rhythm in Real time. To the point that I had to learn to not play in real time with 'swing', because Sibelius would notate it exactly that way.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    After transcribing most of an Earl Klugh head/theme (which I am hoping to finish and post tomorrow) I opened up The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine.

    On page V after describing his various teachers Mark writes:

    'Most of what I learned, however, is from the masters themselves, by transcribing directly from recordings. Every great jazz musician has gotten the best part of his or her education by transcribing. Learn how to do it early and skillfully.'

    Btw The Jazz Theory Book is a great book and I'd recommend it highly even though it's a bit costly.

    Thanks for starting this thread Mr B.
    I don't like the Jazz Theory Book.

    Why? Because I have transcribed a lot of solos and found that the book doesn't accurately reflect what is going on in them.

    Mark is right about transcribing - or as it should be more accurately called 'working stuff out from records.' It's good for your ears and you can work out what's going on.

    Basically Liarspoker has just quoted the one bit of the book that is correct, thus saving you having to buy it ;-)

    Anyway don't take my word for it (why would you? I'm an internet weirdo.)

    Transcribe the stuff you like the sound of, and decide in the end whether or not you think Mark Levine or whoever else is talking absolute cobblers or golden nuggets of truthiness. I feel there's value in my saying that I don't like this book because I've checked out the music.

    If I was saying this stuff without doing my homework or having read the book, I would be an empty hater.

    So, you write your own textbook, and come to your own conclusions. Using your ears is a good way to become a musical adult.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    So, you write your own textbook, and come to your own conclusions. Using your ears is a good way to become a musical adult.
    Wow, that is premium advice for a lot of people. It took me a couple years to figure this out, with my own musical exploration. And also with the guidance of great teachers. I think many of the open minded great players would hint at something similar.

  17. #41

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    Oh - I quickly wanted to add.

    Learning stuff from records is not necessarily about learning entire solos all the time. That can be a bit intimidating a first. Just doing a lick here and there is fine. I do this myself.

    Peter Bernstein for example, said he hadn't learned many solos all the way through, but liked to cop lines he enjoyed from records.

    Other guys like to learn solos all the way through.

    Do what works for you...

  18. #42

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    Agreed.

    I rarely have time to do whole solos...or even a whole chorus...

    But I steal bits and pieces all the time.

  19. #43

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    I really like doing transcriptions
    things I have done so far,,,,,,

    - Dona lee
    - there is no greater love ( mark Whitfield )
    -joy spring ( joe pass )
    -lets cook ( Barney kessel )
    -bach intervention 1
    - cool Blues ( grant green)
    -bobo ( Adam rogers )

    i use use anytune pro plus as needed.

  20. #44

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    Eddie Van Halen learned by copying clapton:
    You're more like Hendrix or Blackmore.

    Van Halen: Yeah, I know. I don't know why, because Hendrix I like, but I was never into him like I was Clapton. And Clapton, man, I know every solo he ever played, note-for-note, still to this day.
    You memorized them?

    Van Halen: Oh, yeah! I used to sit down and learn that stuff note-for-note off the record.




    Last edited by Liarspoker; 05-23-2016 at 02:53 AM.

  21. #45

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    Love the start of Rogers improv on Bopo, a few notes and rhythmic variation.

  22. #46

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    Hi, although I play the guitar, I transcribe mostly pianists like Red Garland, Tommy Flanagan, Hank Jones, Wynton Kelly, Junior Mance. Their phrasing is much more interesting to me than most of the guitar solos. Also, piano is the instrument that I hear the best when transcribing.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by dingusmingus
    This thread has been a good inspiration for me to get his one down on video. Kenny Burrell from the Jimmy Smith record The Organ Grinder. The tune is blues for J.
    Sounds good. I loved Kenny's work with Jimmy Smith.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    Eddie Van Halen learned by copying clapton:
    You're more like Hendrix or Blackmore.

    Van Halen: Yeah, I know. I don't know why, because Hendrix I like, but I was never into him like I was Clapton. And Clapton, man, I know every solo he ever played, note-for-note, still to this day.
    You memorized them?

    Van Halen: Oh, yeah! I used to sit down and learn that stuff note-for-note off the record.





    Yeah, sometimes we end up sounding like something whether we tried or not...

    I remember back to when I had only been playing jazz for a few years, did a gig with a piano player I probably wasn't ready for, but it went off okay, even if I spent half the night fishing around in key hoping to get back to the changes

    Anyway, after the gig, a guy came up to me (obviously a guitar player) and said "Man, you sound great. You really did your homework on all those Django Reinhardt type licks."

    I smiled sheepishly and said thanks...

    Now at that point, I had barely even listened to Django, let alone stole any lines. I figured out the comment some time later when I realized all the Jerry Garcia-isms that were coming out in my playing were being heard as "Djangoisms." And sure enough-- Jerry was really into Django.

    So I was "influenced, once removed" or something.

  25. #49

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    When I started playing jazz guitar I started right in with learning chord melody and trying to copy lines from Joe Pass. Someone heard my playing and said, "Wow, how'd you get those Charlie Parker lines in a guitar solo?"

    I had no idea who Charlie Parker was at the time, but apparently they lines I stole from Joe Pass had been appropriated from Charlie Parker... that is the one and only time I have ever been mistaken for a real bebop player.

    Nowadays it's "Hey, you know learning a few Charlie Parker lines would keep you from sounding so white-bread lame!"

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Yeah, sometimes we end up sounding like something whether we tried or not...

    I remember back to when I had only been playing jazz for a few years, did a gig with a piano player I probably wasn't ready for, but it went off okay, even if I spent half the night fishing around in key hoping to get back to the changes

    Anyway, after the gig, a guy came up to me (obviously a guitar player) and said "Man, you sound great. You really did your homework on all those Django Reinhardt type licks."

    I smiled sheepishly and said thanks...

    Now at that point, I had barely even listened to Django, let alone stole any lines. I figured out the comment some time later when I realized all the Jerry Garcia-isms that were coming out in my playing were being heard as "Djangoisms." And sure enough-- Jerry was really into Django.

    So I was "influenced, once removed" or something.
    That's one of the big mysteries of music.... You try to sound like someone, and you end up sounding like yourself with traces of someone else...

    Wes doesn't sound anything like Charlie Christian, to me, for example.