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12-21-2015 10:13 PM
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Wow, that's amazing.
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yikes!
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So what? It is about as useful to being a musician as the ability to identify colour according to the Munsell Colour System to being an artist or scoring a high Stanford-Binet IQ to being a mathematician.
One does not lead to the other as a natural consequence. A parlour trick and no more than that.
I'm not impressed. Nothing against the kid however. Putting it in perspective. Oh well, he could possibly be a great piano tuner. And have a big problem playing the guitar.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 12-22-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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a parlour trick, yeah now but later on he won't have to practice his ear as much. there are musicians with shit ears they're called shit musicians.
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12-22-2015, 05:52 AM #6destinytot GuestI have to agree.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I think an educated ear and well-developed independent listening skills are essential (and this boy is clearly advantaged), but I believe that - with regard to ears - what counts in performance are interactive listening skills.
Hopefully, the boy's carers will foster the right skills by instilling the right mindset:
Last edited by destinytot; 12-22-2015 at 05:53 AM. Reason: typo
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The art of learning is one of my favourite books. Originally Posted by destinytot
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12-22-2015, 06:25 AM #8destinytot GuestI'll check that out - thanks! Originally Posted by 55bar
EDIT Ah - it's by the chess master mentioned at the beginning of the talk!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Learni.../dp/0743277465Last edited by destinytot; 12-22-2015 at 06:31 AM.
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The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/07432774..._szsEwbTY8RCNB Originally Posted by destinytot
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12-22-2015, 06:32 AM #10destinytot GuestTennis Originally Posted by 55bar
...thanks!
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But I don't think it's a trick. Some people have perfect pitch. (I have heard that it can be learned---by a few---but my sense has long been that "you either got it or you don't." I don't.) It doesn't guarantee that one will be a great musician---or a musician at all---but certainly there is an advantage for musicians in having such finely tuned ears. If nothing else, it cuts down on the time it takes to learn licks off records! And to hear polychords like that? I wish I could too! Don't you? Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Josh Waitzkin (sp?). He was the subject of the book (by his father, a journalist) "Searching for Bobby Fischer," and the subsequent (-most enjoyable) movie. Originally Posted by destinytot
Last edited by MarkRhodes; 12-22-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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Even if it's only a parlor trick, it's a darn impressive one, no? Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I sure couldn't do it.
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Of course I can't do that, but I'll be impressed only if I see it live (not on the Internet, where I don't know how this has been filmed and how it has been prepared before)
Sorry, I may be wrong but I don't trust the Internet
Talking about perfect pitch, when I started guitar, I couldn't believe that my grandmother would be able to tell me which note I was playing, but she did ! (she was 70 and never played guitar but only piano whe she was young) and furthermore she pointed out that my guitar was slightly flat ....
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Another short video on the difference between a "fixed mindset" and a "growth mindset". I find the distinction interesting and have been mulling it over much of the day.
growth mindset vs fixed mindset - Bing video
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He's going to make a hell of a musicologist some day!
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I suppose he would make a first-rate transcriber too. (Which might net better pay than playing jazz guitar.....) Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Lot's of famous musicians have had perfect pitch. Hardly a prerequisite though.
It's got to be a big plus for a transcriber.
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Ah yes, perfect pitch, or "the mutant gene" as one of my teachers called it.
I had a theory teacher in college who had perfect pitch. He always told me it wasn't so great (although he was a fine musician and teacher). When explaining, he would use an example: He would say that if he heard Beethoven's 3rd Symphony and it wasn't exactly in Eb (as he knew Eb) it would drive him up the wall. Even if the orchestra was in tune amongst themselves. The way he described it, it almost seemed like it would be physically uncomfortable for him to hear something not where it should be to his ear.
I knew of one other teacher who my good friend had an ear training class with, who was just a terrible teacher. Ended up getting fired because so many students complained about his incompetence and unprofessionalism. Not sure if there was any connection with the perfect pitch, but it seemed like he may have used it as a crutch.
Also had one classmate (in an ear training class) with perfect pitch, who was a poor student and dropped out early in the school year. Again, not saying there necessarily was a correlation, I didn't even know the guy well. And he could have just dropped out because he didn't need the training. Could have gone on to be a great player for all I know. Who knows?
That's just my own direct experience of people with perfect pitch. I suspect there always a few who end up in music schools as students or teachers.
For me, the bottom line is, who cares other than to talk about it as an interesting phenomenon? IIRC, by the overwhelming majority of reports (other than someone trying to sell a perfect pitch training course) you either have it by a certain age (5 or 6 or so?), or you're not going to have it. Some with it become musicians, some don't.
The rest of us spend our lives continually developing and maintaining relative pitch and other forms of listening skills. No big deal. It does seem like it's possible to develop pitch memory, but that's not the same thing as perfect pitch. More like you know the lowest note you can sing, or you can start on an exact pitch and sing something you were practicing an hour ago without getting a reference. That sort of thing.
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Jack Grassel mentioned a case like that in one of his books. (I forget which.) People with perfect pitch hear the pitch of everything---car horns, people's voices, a cat's meow, a passing jet engine, you name it. They can't turn it off and sometimes wish they could. (At least, that is something I have heard.) Originally Posted by MattC
Good relative pitch is what musicians need to either have or develop. For most, it can be done with work. (It comes easier to some than others.)
All that said, I would like to know what it's like---if only for a day---to have such finally tuned pitch!
O, I almost forgot this old joke.
Q: What is perfect pitch?
A: A perfect pitch is throwing an accordion into a dumpster and having it land on a banjo! (I learned that from an accordion player.)
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I agree about the importance of relative pitch. And that it's something that can be worked on and improved. I sure improved my sense of relative pitch by working on it. I realized decades ago after I'd been playing for a short time that my sense of relative pitch needed work. I'm self taught on guitar and maybe my strategy wasn't the best but I listened,
away from the guitar, to lots of simple old school Country and Western music and tried to identify the I, IV and V chords in my mind. This type of music may not be for everyone's taste but it does tend to use the 3 basic major chords in a creative manner and has a strong sense of cadence. Unlike the 12 bar blues the last 4 bars of which contain, correct me if I'm wrong, a deceptive cadence.
I suppose transcribing melodies or anything else would develop relative pitch.
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It is about as impressive to me as a MENSA member "accidentally" dropping his membership card on the ground under my nose. Originally Posted by dingusmingus
Parlour tricks are called parlour tricks for a good reason. They belong in a parlour to amuse guests and have no consequence outside of it.
Nothing against the kid but I hope someone does not go and tell him that he will go on to make a great musician. He may. He may not. Having that ability does not automatically lead to one being a musician. It is about being a walking Peterson strobe tuner.
He could have a great future making pitch forks, that is assured.
I have a friend who is a colour scientist. Don't mistake him for an artist.
PS I guess having perfect pitch helps in learning to play unfretted string instruments. That was probably the source of the myth of perfect pitch. He has perfect pitch. Ergo, he will make a great Jascha Heifetz. Violin teachers probably encourage this line of thought.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 12-23-2015 at 01:10 PM.
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True. Interesting about asking questions. I'm often laughingly accused by certain types for asking lots of questions. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
My reply is (and I actually said this at work in a group meeting to a manager that gave me a hard time for this):
"There's two reasons why people don't like to be asked questions. 1.) They don't know what they're talking about.
or 2.) They've got something to hide." I then asked him "Which is it for you, Man?" I've had other people like this want me to give them some informal guitar instruction and I tell them that they're going to have to get more comfortable with the questioning process if they want to deal with music. The root of this problem is the common notion that who's ever asking the questions is in control. If a person really wants to deal with music there are going to be those times where they don't feel in control.
I've mulled over the concept of "learning disability".
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I think Barney Kessel suggested that players pick out the melodies of folk songs. They tend to be simple and memorable. The better you get at that, the easier it will be to suss out more subtle melodic lines. Originally Posted by mrcee
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Once I have kids, I will teach them relative pitch. I don't have a desire to teach them that kind of perfect pitch the kid is learning, I don't have perfect pitch myself, but I will teach my future kids how to distinguish all 12 keys, below the age of 5.
I find the training of associating any melody with solfege is an effective tool to learn relative pitch.
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