Reading Music or Self Taught through Rote or whatever?

[fathand]

Learning to read music has always been such a daunting task for me that I never really gave it much thought or practice. Basically I am self taught by watching other players, picking up songs and riffs be ear etc. That said, I did take an actual music reading class in High School as well as a college course but I really didn't learn much and never really got past triplets.

Well, I think I've finally hit a point in my life where I feel reading music is a beneficial must as it feeds self confidence and self esteem and for me at least, the benefits outweigh the stubbornness. Also, most of my local counterparts, especially jazz guitarists read music fluently. How do you feel about reading music or not? And what has been your experience in the area of learning to be self taught?

[vintagelove]

If you don't read music, you're not as good of a musician as you can be.


the question is, are you ok with that.

[pubylakeg]

William G. Leavitt's "Modern Method For Guitar".

[nick1994]

it's a fundamental and fundamentals can be ignored but they always catch up with you.

[cosmic gumbo]

Learning to read/understand music notation is a way to expand musical communication skills, just like reading english. It is the gateway to a vast source of musical knowledge. You don't even have to be skilled enough to sightread to get huge benefits from it, you'd never regret it.

[icuker]

I've played for years and was always intimidated by trying to read for the guitar. I bought the Leavitt book (also a couple of the Mel Bay books which I also like). Even though I am quite the amateur guitarist I do find it helpful. Nice to be able to sight read melodies when I find old standards books in the junk store. I was surprised how quickly I caught on to it. I remember trying to do it in my twenties and for some reason I was stymied then. I think I'm more patient now and also at the time the book was too advanced for me. Leavitt gives a nice approach and short learning curve.

[fathand]

Good to hear from so many players who read music. I feel like I actually just started even though, I actually learned how to read music in high school. It really wasn't until just a couple of months ago when I started to feel and realize the true benefits of picking it up again. For some players it comes easy, especially if they start young. It's never been easy for me but it's gotten easier than it used to be. It's still a daunting task sometimes but at least now I can see and feel the benefits. It would be great if I was one of those cats who could pick up everything by ear, like Django or Montgomery but I am far from it.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I think it's well worth it. Probably most of us wish we did it better.

I've found that for adults learning to read music, the biggest hurdle is psychological. There's this notion that reading music is just easier for kids, they pick it up faster etc. The real reason kids probably pick it up faster is that they have it drilled into their head five days a week for an hour, with someone pounding on a music stand and counting out loud. You would learn faster that way too.

As an adult doing self-study, it takes a lot of self-discipline to get in the number of reps , count out loud, tap your foot etc., but you can do the same work.

[Groyniad]

i grew up playing classical music on the flute - a very great deal of reading

its always been a big thing for me with the guitar that i don't read

this limits me greatly of course - but i hate the vibe of looking at a piece of paper whilst things happen in my lap on the guitar

i learn everything by ear - i used to use chord charts a lot - not so much anymore

for me it was about forcing myself to use my ears rather than relying on my reading skills. all the great musicians i've played with have always been very very positive about never using books on gigs

when you have to use your ears - your ears get better quicker

the real skill with jazz sure as hell ain't reading - its having a tune in your head and then being able to play it on the guitar (start with ANY tunes you already know)

just thought i'd mention the other side of the story

(look up errol garner - he never learned to read)

[goldenwave77]

[QUOTE=fathand;584345]Learning to read music has always been such a daunting task for me that I never really gave it much thought or practice. Basically I am self taught by watching other players, picking up songs and riffs be ear etc. That said, I did take an actual music reading class in High School as well as a college course but I really didn't learn much and never really got past triplets.

. How do you feel about reading music or not? And what has been your experience in the area of learning to be self taught?[/QUOTE]


The following little drill/exercise I have found to be beneficial in showing people how learning to read music is not a big deal.

Sit down and hum a tune you know well...now every time, you hear a note in the first phrase put a mark on a piece of plain, unlined paper....repeat this for the entire phrase and this will show the contour of the melody line....after you are done with the melody, now ask the person "Wouldn't it be nice to KNOW, exactly, what these notes are....not just their relation to each other? (Answer....well, yes) Explain, how back in the 12th cent. (or whenever it was), some monk decided it would be nice to do this....and arbitrary lines with arbitrary letters were attached....one letter after another a....b....c....d....e....f....g. Would it matter where we started? (Answer, not really...but it would be nice if everyone could read the same sheet and know what it means, thus by convention, it starts on e (treble clef)...

Now we know, melody contour, and exactly what notes to play....wouldn't it be nice to know how long each note should be held? (Answer, yes....).....so the convention is to designate different notes in different ways....thus, quarter notes, half notes.

When it is explained this way, and people see the LOGIC of the system that was formulated, a lot of the mystery/"big bad wolf" aspect of music notation goes away...it really does make sense.

In the end, I think it takes more mental effort not to learn it, than to learn it....once you learn the initial decoding process*, you will pick it up with practice...and like almost everything in life, there is not much you get better at, by not doing it....most people can get to the stage of deciphering lead sheets fairly quickly.

*kind of like how most little kids, if shown phonetic equivalents, will begin the process of decoding text in order to learn to read

[destinytot]

How do you feel about reading music or not? And what has been your experience in the area of learning to be self taught?

My reading improved about fifteen years ago when I joined a choral society - but it made no difference to my guitar playing. I can read single lines (and sing them in solfège) well enough for independent study/learning, but the truth of the matter is that I play by ear.

Reading matters to me enormously, but right now writing helps me more because it helps me focus on immediate obstacles to knowing the fretboard. (Whenever possible, I like to 're-create' what I mess up by writing it down, examining it, then doing it right.) I'm far more comfortable memorising (I try not to go out of my depth), and I don't need to do much reading to be able to play.

I know that, in order to play the music I hear, I'll need to read and write (arrange and edit, too). I take it seriously - but not too seriously!

[mrcee]

Like everything else it's a matter of practice and starting with simple melodies like Blue Bossa and Autumn Leaves. I'm personally not going to win any prizes for reading but I'm glad I can. I started as an adult and it's gotten progressively better. Nothing great, but I can read. I think that the first step is really knowing the neck. So well that if someone walked up to you and said "what note is the 9th fret on the B string" you would know immediately. If you're not intimately familiar with the fretboard you'll never be able to read well. I've found that writing music helps my reading. If I play an improvised lick or phrase I like I'll jot it down on staff paper. I'll come upon some of these things later and will be happy that I saved them. And from a composing standpoint some of these little 2 and 4 bar phrases can be the seed for an original tune. In some ways reading standard notation is easier than tab. Definitely for the note values. Tab with stems and flags and rests and dots etc isn't easy.
It's certainly an asset and not a liability but it's not a total deal breaker for a jazz musician. I don't think Tal Farlow could read but he said it was a liability and a deal breaker for his trying to get some work. And reading if nothing else helps a musician access unfamiliar melodies quickly. Even if one isn't really sight reading they are able to get it. Tuck Andress, a terrific guitarist who isn't mentioned that much, says regarding his reading abilities that he doesn't so much 'read' music as he 'deciphers' it off of the paper. That's a good and helpful start.
I believe that both Joe Pass and Segovia said basically the same thing, that it wasn't until they got into their 40s that their sight reading got to be fluid. So reading for the guitar isn't that easy. Bach even admitted that. Reading music isn't the be all and end all for a jazz musician but some ability to do so is always a big help and a necessity in some cases. I've personally got a 'thing' about pianists that can only read. It seems that in past decades the whole focus of piano instruction was to teach the student how to read and little else. You run into a lot of amateur players that can read bird doo doo as they say. You take the newspaper out of the bottom of the cage and put it on the music stand and they can read it. But as soon as you take away the sheet music they can't play Anything. Some of these peeps want to play in a rock band and they've sure got the chops but they can't jam or play off of chord changes. Most don't even know what the notes are in a C chord. Some aren't even aware that there are chord symbols on the chart. They never even looked there.

[Dave70]

... How do you feel about reading music or not? And what has been your experience in the area of learning to be self taught?

It's good to be able to read!

My first exposure to learning notation was in middle school, we learned the treble clef and note values in music class. In 8th grade I tried french horn in the school band in the last quarter of the year. It was fun but I only learned a few notes before it was over. Later in high school I took guitar lessons and we used the Joe Fava method books when I finally wised up that I should read. lol

After that I got into classical guitar big time and started teaching so I had a lot of reading happening. It's tough at first, gets easier the more you make it a part of daily routine. If you want to be a good sight-reader you need to read a lot of music and not the same thing over and over (unless you play it in different positions).

[Lazz]

A young girl I knew (she's not so young anymore) steadfastly refused to learn.
"I have no need!" she insisted.

She had grown in a noisy house full of music and musicians. Dad played guitar and Mum played trumpet. Both could read/decode/interpret to their own necessary professional level, but didn't force it. The kid had gravitated to sax and flute and, surrounded by encouragement and opportunity, already achieved solid connection between facility and ears.

"You play me something and I can copy it immediately note-for-note," she said, "So why do I need to read music?"

That's the core skill after all. Is it not? To be able to re-create at will the sounds we hear. Something she'd already learned and developed naturally through constant contact with and exposure to a community of working musicians,

Something else she had also said as a rider to her first refusal was, "If I ever need to know how to read, then I'll figure it out."

A year or few later and her High School offered some prestigious standard grading or other for performance of specific flute repertoire. For this, she needed to read. So she got it together. Driven by a perceived need.

I don't read, myself. I mean, I have no braggable fluency. Not on sight. If I had need to do it, and enough practice at it, I too could learn to do it. I do have need to write, however. My pad of tunes has to be clean and functionally correct. Otherwise my stuff simply doesn't get played or heard. For me, picking-up skills only makes sense if it helps overcome an important problem - like all those associated with getting my work into performance.

Like riding a bike, building a cabinet, painting and decorating - the more you do, the slicker you will get at it.

[MarkRhodes]

Learning to read/understand music notation is a way to expand musical communication skills, just like reading english. It is the gateway to a vast source of musical knowledge. You don't even have to be skilled enough to sightread to get huge benefits from it, you'd never regret it.

I think that last phrase is key: "you'd never regret it." There's no advantage to NOT being able to read music. Sure, some greats could not read music but that wasn't the reason they were great.

[dingusmingus]

I've done 15 minutes a day for the last 6-9 months, and I can now get by. (I noticed that as the guitar player, I was the only guy at jam sessions who couldn't sight read simple Real Book melodies. That was a motivator.)

I've found it has helped me think about music more clearly. Before I thought only in shapes and scale degrees. Now I can also think in terms of note names on the neck. It is a complementary approach.

[mrcee]

I've done 15 minutes a day for the last 6-9 months, and I can now get by. (I noticed that as the guitar player, I was the only guy at jam sessions who couldn't sight read simple Real Book melodies. That was a motivator.)

I've found it has helped me think about music more clearly. Before I thought only in shapes and scale degrees. Now I can also think in terms of note names on the neck. It is a complementary approach.

And perfect familiarity with the fretboard. It seems almost too basic to mention but a player needs to know every note on the neck as automatically as they know their first, middle and last names. As far as I'm concerned if a player doesn't know that they need to immediately stop everything and put in as much time as necessary to learn it. If I was a dedicated teacher I would ask a would be student who was inquiring about lessons if they knew the name of the notes on the neck. If they said that they didn't I'd say to learn them up to at least the seventh fret and call me when they did.
I meet players who've played for a long time that really don't know any of the notes on the board. Or they're so slow at identifying them that they may as well not. And some of these guys own a bunch of nice instruments. I'll ask them just what is it about the guitar that you dig? The type of wood, the tone, the pickups, the body style etc? What I like the most about the guitar besides the tone and the feel are the notes on the neck. I hope I'm just talking to myself here and that everyone reading this is rolling their eyes and saying "Come on Man. Of course we all know every note on the fretboard. Why would we even be on this forum if we didn't?"

[cosmic gumbo]

FWIW, you don't even have to play an instrument to read music, so I find a distinction between sight reading on an instrument and reading/understanding music notation.

I read music for over 20 years before I ever learned to sight read for guitar. I sure learned a lot about theory, rhythm, composing and arranging without being a sight reader and I urge that learning to understand and recognize music notation will help any musician to become more literate in the language of music and is an aid to improving your ear.

[coolvinny]

Learning to read/understand music notation is a way to expand musical communication skills, just like reading english. It is the gateway to a vast source of musical knowledge. You don't even have to be skilled enough to sightread to get huge benefits from it, you'd never regret it.

^^this.

[larry graves]

I take it's jazz we're talking about here? if so I think it's ear's you need to exercise more than eyes, you only have so many hours in a day.. Having said that you have to learn some musical grammar. Back in the day when pop tunes ( standards now ) were just vehicles for improvisation to creative jazz musicians... you know, hear a bit of the tune, make the rest up!....My friends at the Philly can read music faster than I can think..ask any of them to, ere make something up..What!!....But hey!..somebody has to compose and write it down first, before we can rip it off!....L...