The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76
    From the source:



    Next time I see Bruce, I will ask him if he can contribute some posts so you can hear his ruminations in person

    I will try, promise

    Giant Steps in B major tonality is coming soon.





    I hope the idea of Bruce as a Shaman is better understood. Either a shaman or a mad scientist of all things music.

    He doesn't consider himself a jazz musician. That is too small a label for him. He just considers himself a MUSICIAN





    I leave you all to evaluate Bruce's validity. Don't take my word for it **cue Reading Rainbow theme**

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77
    destinytot Guest
    Bruce Arnold on the type of ear training he teaches (@8:37 of interview video): "Most schools teach interval training. I teach a system that's based on learning all twelve pitches against a key centre."

  4. #78


    Thile explains the whole notion of genre and approach very well.

  5. #79

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    Update: I contacted Bruce thanks Alex, he got back to me and prescribed me some exercises based on what I told him, seems like a great guy.

  6. #80
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-12-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  7. #81

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    Hey Alex, thanks for the giant steps pod cast, I'll have a listen.

    Bruce gave me these exercises.

    With the rhythm book, and the metrodrone he's getting me to do five pages a day singing the tonesI find tough against a drone with the rhythms in the book.

    He's also getting me to great playlists from the contextual ear book in my MP3 player. For example I'll have a playlist for root notes one for 3rds one for 5ths one for 7ths (both major and minor)

    This is helping so much so I'm practicing singing them as many times a day as I can muster.

    I tried the singing Aug 4 today along with the rhythm ex 1 with a C bass drone at 190 bpm, this stuff is WORKING!
    Last edited by 55bar; 10-12-2015 at 05:16 PM.

  8. #82
    As Kermit the Frog would say...

    YEEEEY


  9. #83

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    Just listened to the Giant Steps podcast. Interesting & thought provoking... :-)

  10. #84

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    Hey Alex, I should pipe in and let you know I've been following this thread. I took a calculated risk and bought Ear Training One Note Advanced plus the C Major and Minor Degrees a few days ago, have been working with it on a daily basis and tracking my answers so I can identify my problem notes. This morning I got an 80% result so I think I chose the right entry point. I'm really enjoying working with this material and excited about the results. Thanks for sharing this information and your experiences.

  11. #85
    Awesome! Make sure that you buy the Contextual Ear Training Course:

    Contextual ear training for musicians book with audioMuse EEK

    It's important that you are able to create these pitches on your own

    Also, buy the Key Note Recognition Course:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    Get the voice edition

    Also, PM me for Bruce's email. Go to the source. Like I said, Bruce is a mad scientist, shaman, and musicianship doctor all rolled up in one person.

    Glad you are enjoying this thread, austin! Getting 80% on the one-note advanced is no joke. Make sure your response time is quick and without any crutches.

    --Erez (I spelt my middle name wrong)

  12. #86
    Short post...

    Wait, do I ever make a short post?

    Many of us talk about improvised lines, solos, whatever.

    How about improvised comping or chord solos?

    Let's add another level, improvised comping where you improvise chord voicings as well AND take old harmonic material and apply it to new situations...

    That's what I tried to do in my practical standards "You've Changed" post.

    I listened to Billie Holiday with strings because... well... who does that song more justice? Not even my main man LTD, Dexter does it with that same emotional conviction. I tried to get some of the strings harmony, especially the intro. Then I improvised harmony around the melody.

    How did I do this?

    Bruce Arnold's material and being a little bit ballsy.

    Stick with the material, you will soon see the light. Every day, little details about your melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you. Every day, little details about your favorite musician's melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you.

    For my next lesson, I might show Bruce this thread and get him to contribute. Hope he doesn't get upset that I am sharing these ideas here. I don't think I totally gave anything away for free that he sells with his courses. I'll play it by ear (all pun intended)

  13. #87
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    I'm pretty experienced with ear training, yes. But I haven't got chromatic solfège syllables down pat, so in practice I sing "sharp e-le-ven..." Moreover, I distinguish between independent and interactive listening (practising the former for recognising sounds, the latter for communicating sounds).

    I think Bruce Arnold's approach - referencing all notes to a single pitch - is highly counter-intuitive, but I believe it develops abilities in both. Ear training is part of what helps you connect and communicate - yes, I will email Bruce Arnold. Ear training summer camp in Valencia, Spain, anyone?

    PS Only half joking - I'm organising my first language retreat, and I've found some great venues with excellent deals.
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-14-2015 at 03:59 AM. Reason: P

  14. #88

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    I have also developed a spreadsheet that feeds me random scale degrees which I have to sing.

    You can also use the One Note Beginner or Intermediate as a sight singing exercise - on my Mac the name of the track flashes up which obviously gives it away - but you can use this by attempting to sing the note and seeing if you get it right. Obviously you need to be able to hear octave displacements to do this.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-14-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  15. #89
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 02:18 AM.

  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    I ear train in the shower too.

  17. #91
    Me too

    But I thought of this other point. Don't just ear train to get another session. Make each session intention.

    For instance, for me, I got out of the habit of prehearing for the Contextual Ear Training. That is no bueno at all! Whenever you sing anything, you MUST prehear the pitches. So I am stricter with myself in terms of singing pitches and prehearing.

    Bruce calls this next concept mental fatigue. You have to become aware of your own learning process. There comes a time in every practice session, ear training or not, where the mind stops absorbing and grows numb. Do NOT practice beyond this point. You will be wasting time because nothing will stick, and you will ingrain mistakes instead of the correct material. It's better to practice in short bursts than too practice in one long session.

    Ask orri about how this relates to strength training
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 07:40 AM.

  18. #92

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    Ah, the shower - ear training nirvana. Everyone likes to sing in the shower so I guess it follows. In general what I like to do is think of a song and solfege it up, turning it over in my mind, singing it. Then when I get out of the shower I play it on the guitar and piano! Usually I've been checking through it for about 5 minutes or so (long shower :-)) so I have it fixed and ready to go, and right first time!

    I'm not at the point where it's automatic or intuitive (yet) but it is still a lot faster than picking up a guitar and working it out that way.

    It's also good to do it when not having a shower perhaps? ;-) But the shower is great because it is a private space where you can't get distracted by the guitar.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 11:10 AM.

  19. #93
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    You are quite bonkers. :-)

  21. #95
    I gotta watch my sleep habits... not good for me...

    Anyway... a question came up by a member I respect on the forum, so I want to use this space to address his question. Christian, I hope you don't mind.

    Honest question (that is one I haven't decided I know the answer to!) do you think by training to improvise by ear slowly (ala Warne Marsh) it is possible to learn to improvise at fast tempos? Or do you see fast tempos/double time as a totally different discipline?

    I need (dang font messing up again...) to get Bruce on this forum... but I dunno if he would like me sharing these ideas here. He might, I'm not giving away anything from his courses.

    Anyway... he explained to me as follows. At bright tempos, like 300bpm, you hear melodic and harmonic material differently than when you play at 120bpm. Try singing through a blues, Chris, I know you can manage that quite well. At the faster tempo, the illusion of "modulations" (just saying that to have a common language, I believe they are tonicizations) disappears and you are left with the key center.

    Here is my explanation:

    Think of it as looking at the car window at a slow speed, and continuing to look at the window as your friend speeds down the high way like a bat out of hell. At the slower speed, you can pick out details on the side of the road. Buildings, the colors of the trees in the fall, and street lamps. Let's call all of those details the chord changes and specific voicings and colors in the harmony.

    Still with me?

    Now look out that same window at a fast speed, everything becomes a blur. You can't make out the details of a building, you can't make out the beautiful trees. Everything blends together...

    Wait, so am I saying that all sound blends together?

    Nope.

    Look up at the sky, look at the clouds. Lets call the clouds the macro harmony of the tune. They are above the details on the ground. Due to the odd phenomenon of our own optics, the clouds look almost stationary. That, my friend, is what you hear at faster tempos.

    You have to be super conscious of phrasing at this point, to bring out the detail in speeding background. Think of it as forcing your eyes to track an object looking out the side window. This can be paralleled to internalizing the sound of tempos (yes, tempo has a sound) so that you can force your ear to track the details of the chord changes in the background.

    Chris and others on this thread, I won't waste my time posting these thought out metaphors anywhere else on the forum because I will get mocked by other members. The long and short is that they operate under the illusion that music is a purely physical and mental endeavor. Ear training is mythos to them. That's fine, but that's not how I operate.

    There is more to ear training quickly, Chris I would recommend the following courses to you, but please email bruce first.

    Here is the sequence:

    http://muse-eek.com/melodic-ear-trai...ok-with-audio/

    Melodic ear training really tests your skill to hear each note against a key. These notes are played faster and faster. Start with two notes and piano. The task is to hear each note as a distinct entity.

    Get this as well:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    That will help your ear "see" the clouds.

    Then, treat yourself to some harmony. This is currently how I ear train modulation, and harmony:

    Three note ear training for musicians audioMuse EEK

    I can't find the two note course. Bruce has a brilliant mind, and he has been adding to the library over and over since I first started with him. He is a very brilliant man, but he's gotta slow down

    PM me for his personal email, for chrissakes, Christian!

  22. #96
    At faster tempos, you hear in chunks of sound instead of individual pitches. Also, you hear the harmonic implication, rhythm, and shape all simultaneously (they must act in tandem during the act of performance improvisation).

    This is why you need to ear train with multiple methods, to get your ear used to the multitasking of digesting music and creating logic out of it. That's why I said that ear training is much more than Solfege (though that is an extremely important aspect of the process)

    Look up the courses, email Bruce. You owe it to yourself, Chris. You've got some beautiful talent there. You've climbed mountains near and wide to hone your craft. Let Bruce help you climb Everest so you can conquer K2 on your own. Dig?

  23. #97

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    You are very kind. I think that Bruce's material is very strong, and much in line what I have learned from others. I would certainly be interested in emailing him, so I will PM you. I have been checking out his one note course, and would be interested in seeing what we would recommend as the next step.

    Incidentally, I have been to Everest. The sight of Everest coming out of the clouds was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen. I hike a kilometer or two up to base camp (the Tibetan side.) At 5000m this is hardest 1.5 km's ever! The mountain was shrouded in cloud by the time we got to the base camp, but it cleared just at that moment. Incredible.

    It was as if the the Tibetan Mother Goddess, Chomolungma, was smiling at us.

    I realised then in that moment that I had no desire to conquer or summit something so otherworldly and beautiful. I could see the little yellow tents of the mountaineers at the advance base camp dwarfed by the immensity of it all. The terrain around everest is like another planet. No trees, little vegetation. Bare rock, like the moon. The air is half the pressure at sea level. The sky is a rich blue. When I tried to sleep at 5,000m my body was so frantic to pump blood around my body it felt like I was dying.

    One of the most wonderful experiences of my life. If you ever get the chance to visit the Himalyas, I would recommend it. It really is a different world.

    There are guys in Nepal - sherpas - who have been up and down Everest a dozen times or more... They only do it because of the Westerners, sometimes they are lucky, sometimes, as tragically this year, they (and the climbers) are not. It's a very strange concept, conquering a mountain. I think it is more that the mountain indulges you!
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:26 PM.

  24. #98
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music
    Amen to that.

    He must go! your dad sounds awesome!

    A surreal detail is that I was able to phone my dad from the base camp. Thanks to the Chinese obsession for infrastructure Tibet has excellent phone coverage - better than some bits of London haha. I can't get any reception in Hampstead, but at Everest, no problem!

    The trip was only up to base camp anyway (enough for me!)... If you climb you are out there for months, acclimatising and training...

    There's not much freedom to roam in Tibet (the Chinese are very controlling here) unlike Nepal. Me and the missus are seriously thinking about going to trek in Annapurna next spring. We love that part of the world so much.

    I will post some photos if you like... stand by...
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  26. #100

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    where tibetan mantra meets jazz..not that they were ever separated..hah

    the great don cherry



    cheers