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  1. #101
    You got through my horrible singing?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Hey Alex, I should pipe in and let you know I've been following this thread. I took a calculated risk and bought Ear Training One Note Advanced plus the C Major and Minor Degrees a few days ago, have been working with it on a daily basis and tracking my answers so I can identify my problem notes. This morning I got an 80% result so I think I chose the right entry point. I'm really enjoying working with this material and excited about the results. Thanks for sharing this information and your experiences.

  4. #103
    Awesome! Make sure that you buy the Contextual Ear Training Course:

    Contextual ear training for musicians book with audioMuse EEK

    It's important that you are able to create these pitches on your own

    Also, buy the Key Note Recognition Course:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    Get the voice edition

    Also, PM me for Bruce's email. Go to the source. Like I said, Bruce is a mad scientist, shaman, and musicianship doctor all rolled up in one person.

    Glad you are enjoying this thread, austin! Getting 80% on the one-note advanced is no joke. Make sure your response time is quick and without any crutches.

    --Erez (I spelt my middle name wrong)

  5. #104
    Short post...

    Wait, do I ever make a short post?

    Many of us talk about improvised lines, solos, whatever.

    How about improvised comping or chord solos?

    Let's add another level, improvised comping where you improvise chord voicings as well AND take old harmonic material and apply it to new situations...

    That's what I tried to do in my practical standards "You've Changed" post.

    I listened to Billie Holiday with strings because... well... who does that song more justice? Not even my main man LTD, Dexter does it with that same emotional conviction. I tried to get some of the strings harmony, especially the intro. Then I improvised harmony around the melody.

    How did I do this?

    Bruce Arnold's material and being a little bit ballsy.

    Stick with the material, you will soon see the light. Every day, little details about your melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you. Every day, little details about your favorite musician's melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you.

    For my next lesson, I might show Bruce this thread and get him to contribute. Hope he doesn't get upset that I am sharing these ideas here. I don't think I totally gave anything away for free that he sells with his courses. I'll play it by ear (all pun intended)

  6. #105
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    I'm pretty experienced with ear training, yes. But I haven't got chromatic solfège syllables down pat, so in practice I sing "sharp e-le-ven..." Moreover, I distinguish between independent and interactive listening (practising the former for recognising sounds, the latter for communicating sounds).

    I think Bruce Arnold's approach - referencing all notes to a single pitch - is highly counter-intuitive, but I believe it develops abilities in both. Ear training is part of what helps you connect and communicate - yes, I will email Bruce Arnold. Ear training summer camp in Valencia, Spain, anyone?

    PS Only half joking - I'm organising my first language retreat, and I've found some great venues with excellent deals.
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-14-2015 at 03:59 AM. Reason: P

  7. #106

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    I have also developed a spreadsheet that feeds me random scale degrees which I have to sing.

    You can also use the One Note Beginner or Intermediate as a sight singing exercise - on my Mac the name of the track flashes up which obviously gives it away - but you can use this by attempting to sing the note and seeing if you get it right. Obviously you need to be able to hear octave displacements to do this.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-14-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  8. #107
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 02:18 AM.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    I ear train in the shower too.

  10. #109
    Me too

    But I thought of this other point. Don't just ear train to get another session. Make each session intention.

    For instance, for me, I got out of the habit of prehearing for the Contextual Ear Training. That is no bueno at all! Whenever you sing anything, you MUST prehear the pitches. So I am stricter with myself in terms of singing pitches and prehearing.

    Bruce calls this next concept mental fatigue. You have to become aware of your own learning process. There comes a time in every practice session, ear training or not, where the mind stops absorbing and grows numb. Do NOT practice beyond this point. You will be wasting time because nothing will stick, and you will ingrain mistakes instead of the correct material. It's better to practice in short bursts than too practice in one long session.

    Ask orri about how this relates to strength training
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 07:40 AM.

  11. #110

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    Ah, the shower - ear training nirvana. Everyone likes to sing in the shower so I guess it follows. In general what I like to do is think of a song and solfege it up, turning it over in my mind, singing it. Then when I get out of the shower I play it on the guitar and piano! Usually I've been checking through it for about 5 minutes or so (long shower :-)) so I have it fixed and ready to go, and right first time!

    I'm not at the point where it's automatic or intuitive (yet) but it is still a lot faster than picking up a guitar and working it out that way.

    It's also good to do it when not having a shower perhaps? ;-) But the shower is great because it is a private space where you can't get distracted by the guitar.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 11:10 AM.

  12. #111
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    You are quite bonkers. :-)

  14. #113
    More than you know, Chris, more than you know

  15. #114
    I gotta watch my sleep habits... not good for me...

    Anyway... a question came up by a member I respect on the forum, so I want to use this space to address his question. Christian, I hope you don't mind.

    Honest question (that is one I haven't decided I know the answer to!) do you think by training to improvise by ear slowly (ala Warne Marsh) it is possible to learn to improvise at fast tempos? Or do you see fast tempos/double time as a totally different discipline?

    I need (dang font messing up again...) to get Bruce on this forum... but I dunno if he would like me sharing these ideas here. He might, I'm not giving away anything from his courses.

    Anyway... he explained to me as follows. At bright tempos, like 300bpm, you hear melodic and harmonic material differently than when you play at 120bpm. Try singing through a blues, Chris, I know you can manage that quite well. At the faster tempo, the illusion of "modulations" (just saying that to have a common language, I believe they are tonicizations) disappears and you are left with the key center.

    Here is my explanation:

    Think of it as looking at the car window at a slow speed, and continuing to look at the window as your friend speeds down the high way like a bat out of hell. At the slower speed, you can pick out details on the side of the road. Buildings, the colors of the trees in the fall, and street lamps. Let's call all of those details the chord changes and specific voicings and colors in the harmony.

    Still with me?

    Now look out that same window at a fast speed, everything becomes a blur. You can't make out the details of a building, you can't make out the beautiful trees. Everything blends together...

    Wait, so am I saying that all sound blends together?

    Nope.

    Look up at the sky, look at the clouds. Lets call the clouds the macro harmony of the tune. They are above the details on the ground. Due to the odd phenomenon of our own optics, the clouds look almost stationary. That, my friend, is what you hear at faster tempos.

    You have to be super conscious of phrasing at this point, to bring out the detail in speeding background. Think of it as forcing your eyes to track an object looking out the side window. This can be paralleled to internalizing the sound of tempos (yes, tempo has a sound) so that you can force your ear to track the details of the chord changes in the background.

    Chris and others on this thread, I won't waste my time posting these thought out metaphors anywhere else on the forum because I will get mocked by other members. The long and short is that they operate under the illusion that music is a purely physical and mental endeavor. Ear training is mythos to them. That's fine, but that's not how I operate.

    There is more to ear training quickly, Chris I would recommend the following courses to you, but please email bruce first.

    Here is the sequence:

    http://muse-eek.com/melodic-ear-trai...ok-with-audio/

    Melodic ear training really tests your skill to hear each note against a key. These notes are played faster and faster. Start with two notes and piano. The task is to hear each note as a distinct entity.

    Get this as well:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    That will help your ear "see" the clouds.

    Then, treat yourself to some harmony. This is currently how I ear train modulation, and harmony:

    Three note ear training for musicians audioMuse EEK

    I can't find the two note course. Bruce has a brilliant mind, and he has been adding to the library over and over since I first started with him. He is a very brilliant man, but he's gotta slow down

    PM me for his personal email, for chrissakes, Christian!

  16. #115
    At faster tempos, you hear in chunks of sound instead of individual pitches. Also, you hear the harmonic implication, rhythm, and shape all simultaneously (they must act in tandem during the act of performance improvisation).

    This is why you need to ear train with multiple methods, to get your ear used to the multitasking of digesting music and creating logic out of it. That's why I said that ear training is much more than Solfege (though that is an extremely important aspect of the process)

    Look up the courses, email Bruce. You owe it to yourself, Chris. You've got some beautiful talent there. You've climbed mountains near and wide to hone your craft. Let Bruce help you climb Everest so you can conquer K2 on your own. Dig?

  17. #116

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    You are very kind. I think that Bruce's material is very strong, and much in line what I have learned from others. I would certainly be interested in emailing him, so I will PM you. I have been checking out his one note course, and would be interested in seeing what we would recommend as the next step.

    Incidentally, I have been to Everest. The sight of Everest coming out of the clouds was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen. I hike a kilometer or two up to base camp (the Tibetan side.) At 5000m this is hardest 1.5 km's ever! The mountain was shrouded in cloud by the time we got to the base camp, but it cleared just at that moment. Incredible.

    It was as if the the Tibetan Mother Goddess, Chomolungma, was smiling at us.

    I realised then in that moment that I had no desire to conquer or summit something so otherworldly and beautiful. I could see the little yellow tents of the mountaineers at the advance base camp dwarfed by the immensity of it all. The terrain around everest is like another planet. No trees, little vegetation. Bare rock, like the moon. The air is half the pressure at sea level. The sky is a rich blue. When I tried to sleep at 5,000m my body was so frantic to pump blood around my body it felt like I was dying.

    One of the most wonderful experiences of my life. If you ever get the chance to visit the Himalyas, I would recommend it. It really is a different world.

    There are guys in Nepal - sherpas - who have been up and down Everest a dozen times or more... They only do it because of the Westerners, sometimes they are lucky, sometimes, as tragically this year, they (and the climbers) are not. It's a very strange concept, conquering a mountain. I think it is more that the mountain indulges you!
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:26 PM.

  18. #117
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music
    Amen to that.

    He must go! your dad sounds awesome!

    A surreal detail is that I was able to phone my dad from the base camp. Thanks to the Chinese obsession for infrastructure Tibet has excellent phone coverage - better than some bits of London haha. I can't get any reception in Hampstead, but at Everest, no problem!

    The trip was only up to base camp anyway (enough for me!)... If you climb you are out there for months, acclimatising and training...

    There's not much freedom to roam in Tibet (the Chinese are very controlling here) unlike Nepal. Me and the missus are seriously thinking about going to trek in Annapurna next spring. We love that part of the world so much.

    I will post some photos if you like... stand by...
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  20. #119
    Was that passed the glaciers? Yikes, those glaciers sounded more frightening than the rest of the climb. Falling through, holy shit!

  21. #120

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    where tibetan mantra meets jazz..not that they were ever separated..hah

    the great don cherry



    cheers

  22. #121
    I can't believe Eagle Eye was his son... family can be an odd concept

  23. #122

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    actually, eec did a lovely cover of one of his pops great tunes



    & neneh cherry is his daughter...she recently cut some stuff with a pretty "out" scandinavian trio

    (despite the seemingly bored crowd!! haha)



    had the pleasure of seeing don cherry around a few times..one of the greats

    talk about free improvising!!..thats what he was

    cheers

  24. #123


    Loosely based on You've Changed and other themes. Can you name them all. This was freely improvised.

  25. #124
    YEY! My guilty habit is back. Thanks for getting the site back up an running.

    Got a new toy... can you guess what it is.

    Neatomic and Chris '77 aren't allowed to participate in this one:



    Another "free improvisation"

  26. #125
    To show y'all that I am serious
    Attached Images Attached Images Journal of Performance Ear Training-capture-jpg 
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-25-2015 at 10:16 AM.

  27. #126

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    Just thought I'd share this VERY interesting, Bruce emailed the link to me after a series of exchanges where I told him I was getting worse at the one note stuff. I had a break through today where I started to hear D# rather than Eb, I know it's the same note but it was all about HOW I was hearing it, things are changing and I'm EXCITED. I owe you Alex!

    http://www.treygunn.com/blog/2015/10...he-breath.html

  28. #127
    That makes me smile. I can't bask in the compliment because it's Bruce's material, not my own. I'm just glad you gave it a chance and that it's helping you access your own music. As a teacher myself, that's the best feeling in the world.

    I think I might be able to interview Bruce and post the video to this thread.

    For those interested, post your questions here about anything related to his method and Charlie Banacos. I will try my best to interview him so you all can have more of a background about these concepts.

    As the world awaits the next Star Wars flick, I leave with these parting words:

    Use your ears, Luke:



    I apologize if the guitar was a little outta tune. Being a devotee of ear training, posting something even a little outta tune is embarrassing. Meh, the guitar ain't a perfectly intonated instrument anyway.
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-27-2015 at 08:23 PM.

  29. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    but this is definitely NOT the Bruce Arnold Method. Arnold got all this stuff from Charlie Banacos (along with all his approach note stuff).

    Yes, he is pretty clear about that. I call it the Bruce Method because that's who I learned it from. Bruce also studied with Bergonzi and a classical pianist as well. He is a good guy, or he wouldn't have allowed me to continue my studies... let's just say I was stupid in the past
    an Albert King lick doesn't become a Stevie Ray Vaughan lick just because Stevie was the first time you​ heard it

  30. #129
    I'm glad that many people got something out of this thread. However, I may ask the head of the website to remove this thread. Although I think a lot of good came from this thread, I could see how this thread could cause harm.

    Thanks for listening, peeps

  31. #130
    Dasein, I dunno what you are trying to do with your posts, but it's all good. I emailed Dirk and Matt, and I want the thread to end. No one is at fault. I felt like it a good run. I had a lot of fun with it. I wanna end on a good note. Cool?

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Just thought I'd share this VERY interesting, Bruce emailed the link to me after a series of exchanges where I told him I was getting worse at the one note stuff. I had a break through today where I started to hear D# rather than Eb, I know it's the same note but it was all about HOW I was hearing it, things are changing and I'm EXCITED. I owe you Alex!

    Trey Gunn - Blog - Inner Hearing, Micro-twitches and the Breath
    I very much enjoyed reading your blog (I take it's yours?) bearing in mind what you said I am revisiting the One Note Exercise.

    I am also having fun solfeging up melodies with respect to one key centre. It is hard to hear when the chords change sometimes isn't it? With this in mind I will probably email Bruce for suggestions when I get back from my travels. I think the exercises you mentioned sound like they address these aspects.

  33. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I'm glad that many people got something out of this thread. However, I may ask the head of the website to remove this thread. Although I think a lot of good came from this thread, I could see how this thread could cause harm.

    Thanks for listening, peeps
    How so?

  34. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Dasein, I dunno what you are trying to do with your posts, but it's all good. I emailed Dirk and Matt, and I want the thread to end. No one is at fault. I felt like it a good run. I had a lot of fun with it. I wanna end on a good note. Cool?
    Whaaaaaahhht? Nooooo! This is one of the reasons I visit the forum!

    I find all your posts here very educational and highly entertaining, keep it up Alex!

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I very much enjoyed reading your blog (I take it's yours?) bearing in mind what you said I am revisiting the One Note Exercise.

    I am also having fun solfeging up melodies with respect to one key centre. It is hard to hear when the chords change sometimes isn't it? With this in mind I will probably email Bruce for suggestions when I get back from my travels. I think the exercises you mentioned sound like they address these aspects.
    Not my blog, sorry for any confusion!

  36. #135
    I started the blog, but it is really everyone's who contributed. I am scared to ask Bruce to check out this thread, because although we have a good teacher-student relationship, I am worried that he will be beyond upset that I shared some of the concepts that you need to buy courses to access. A lot of them are on his free FAQ...

    You know what, I'll ask him this weekend. I just don't want to get sued over this. I don't think he's the guy to do that to me, but I really should have asked before posting all this.

    I guess I was excited. I find something I love and I wanna share it, especially if it helps me achieve something in myself that I couldn't achieve before.

    That was the whole point of this thread.

    Not a sales pitch.

  37. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I started the blog, but it is really everyone's who contributed. I am scared to ask Bruce to check out this thread, because although we have a good teacher-student relationship, I am worried that he will be beyond upset that I shared some of the concepts that you need to buy courses to access. A lot of them are on his free FAQ...

    You know what, I'll ask him this weekend. I just don't want to get sued over this. I don't think he's the guy to do that to me, but I really should have asked before posting all this.

    I guess I was excited. I find something I love and I wanna share it, especially if it helps me achieve something in myself that I couldn't achieve before.

    That was the whole point of this thread.

    Not a sales pitch.
    I see your point. It may have been prudent to check it out with him before hand...

    In terms of popularising his teaching and getting more people to give him money I think this thread is a GOOD THING for Bruce, and I hope he sees it that way. (He's pretty dense if he doesn't IMO :-)) But you are perhaps right to be wary.

    Perhaps shut down this thread and open up a new one if Bruce is cool with it.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I see your point. It may have been prudent to check it out with him before hand...

    In terms of popularising his teaching and getting more people to give him money I think this thread is a GOOD THING for Bruce, and I hope he sees it that way. (He's pretty dense if he doesn't IMO :-)) But you are perhaps right to be wary.

    Perhaps shut down this thread and open up a new one if Bruce is cool with it.
    I've probably spent close to $100 on Bruce stuff and that's down to this thread, and will continue to spend more...
    Last edited by 55bar; 10-29-2015 at 07:03 AM.

  39. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Dasein, I dunno what you are trying to do with your posts, but it's all good. I emailed Dirk and Matt, and I want the thread to end. No one is at fault. I felt like it a good run. I had a lot of fun with it. I wanna end on a good note. Cool?
    i'm not "trying" to do anything with my posts. like i said, i have absolutely nothing against Bruce Arnold -- quite the opposite. i haven't talked to him in a while, but i've known/corresponded with him for well over a decade now. he's helped me out like he's helped many others.

    and i have nothing against you, either. i'm glad you've found a teacher that works for you, and having a little enthusiasm never hurts.

    if it seems like i'm harping on this point... well, it's because i think it's a very important point. because this ear training material isn't the Bruce Arnold Method or anything like that. all of it... all of it...is stuff that Charlie Banacos came up with. i know that because Bruce told me that he got it from Charlie. i know because i sat there with Charlie at the piano, and he did the exact same stuff with me, just like he did with everyone else for the last 30 years.

    what i'm "trying" to do with my posts is make sure that a guy who helped me out -- a guy who didn't write books, make records, have a university position, or really self-promote at all, but helped a lot of players get a lot better...a guy who dedicated his life to teaching, a guy who was actually worried about making sure his students got their next lesson while he was in a hospital bed dying of cancer -- gets the credit that he deserves.

    Bruce himself told me that he didn't really start getting his shit together until he studied with Charlie Banacos and Jerry Bergonzi (himself another Banacos student). if you want to endorse and evangelize for Bruce Arnold, that's great, but why not extend that courtesy for the teacher that helped make your own guru/shaman/sherpa/whatever?

  40. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Not my blog, sorry for any confusion!
    you mean you're NOT Trey Gunn?

  41. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by dasein View Post
    you mean you're NOT Trey Gunn?
    I have no idea who Trey Gunn is (apart from the fact that it says he was in King Crimson on his blog). No doubt this is my loss :-) Great blog anyway.

    Anyhow, the fact that Bruce has manage to monetise someone's teaching... It's an interesting point.

    None - or very few - of our ideas and concepts are original. When I teach (and take money from my students) I am drawing on the teaching of my teachers. I don't have one specific guru figure in my life, but two or three figures that I more or less copy the materials from. I try to give credit where it's due. But if I had studied with one Big Figure, I'm sure I would in effect be selling their ideas... So how is that ethically?

    Anyway, I think it's great that the materials exist ready to go and it's great that it's all easy to access on his website. No doubt there was some fixed costs to set it up, which is fair enough.

    Personally, in so much as I understand his approach this is something I can practice myself anyway, with or without the training materials on the site. I could go for lessons with students or his or Charles Banacos in so much as there are available in London.

    It's just that his materials are convenient and you can stick on the tracks and just go through it without thinking. So I do think there is a value there.

    Anyway, I don't think you disagree with any of this, and I think it's about maintaining your teachers legacy, very honourable as we might say...

  42. #141

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dasein View Post
    you mean you're NOT Trey Gunn?
    No I'm trez hard of hearing.

  43. #142
    I never studied with Charlie, but I know about his legacy.

    Bruce tells me stories about Charlie and I just sit and listen. The way he describes it is akin to Homer and the Odyssey. An epic poem of sorts.

    Bruce took this ideas and applied them to technology. So you can practice wherever you want. As a high school teacher, I need to find ways to cram practice time into my day. So yes, the concept is not Bruce's. But I wouldn't say Bruce found a way to make money off of Charlie (though making a living in music education never hurts, right?)

    Bruce found a way to make the studies more accessible to students, even if they weren't in a practice room. I practice these courses while driving, flying, in a subway car, on a walk, going to sleep, getting up, running to the deli, etc.

    The studies resonated with me. That's why I urge others to check them out. Daesin, do you live in NYC? It's hard to find peeps that know about Bruce... and Charlie...

    I was just annoyed because you didn't give me the context. Now I hear where you are coming from (all pun intended)


  44. #143
    I guess this thread is up for good...

    Friends don't let friends start threads without thinking...

    Just hope Bruce sees this as a way to introduce more people to Charlie Banaco's concepts and the materials therein

    Can't afford a lawsuit... too many expensives

  45. #144

    User Info Menu

    Irez - pardon me for asking, but what are you looking to accomplish with this specific approach to ear training? I get the impression that you are a working jazz player / performer /student. Are your ears not yet 'trained'?

    This is not meant to be in any way facetious or provocative. I never specifically trained my ears taking a course or specific method of study. Just happened along the way for me. So why focus so intently on this area unless there are significant deficiencies? It's like spending a lot of money on multivitamins when you already eat a healthy diet. Is it worth it or necessary?

  46. #145

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Irez - pardon me for asking, but what are you looking to accomplish with this specific approach to ear training? I get the impression that you are a working jazz player / performer /student. Are your ears not yet 'trained'?

    This is not meant to be in any way facetious or provocative. I never specifically trained my ears taking a course or specific method of study. Just happened along the way for me. So why focus so intently on this area unless there are significant deficiencies? It's like spending a lot of money on multivitamins when you already eat a healthy diet. Is it worth it or necessary?
    I'm not at all trying to answer for Irez here just give my own personal answer.

    I guess some people (me included) take longer to get their s**t together when it comes to ears, I spent years playing lines and licks without actually being able to hear the changes.

    I'm sure we all learn in different ways my friend at college got his ears together by using any tonic then on his way to lessons used car licence plates to sing intervals.

    If all this happens organically then great, some people just need to get specific, even Miles talks about ear training in certain interviews becoming a "scientist of sound" etc.

    I know by using the Banacos /Arnold teachings that I just find it hard to hear certain things so it's great for me to practice them especially when I can't get to a guitar

    Anyway again not trying to answer for Alex, just my 2 peneth

  47. #146
    I am a high school teacher who happens to be obsessed with music.

    Good question.

    I hope to reach a level where I can play anything anywhere with any person in any genre to the highest level possible. I want everything to be improvised and based in the musical moment. No preconceived voicings or chord progressions. Just my two ears and my brain.

    I want the guitar to what Segovia has said was "a set of binoculars looking through the wrong way"

    The guitar as a mini orchestra, symphony, sonic atmosphere creator.

    I want to immitate string sections, piano, brass sections, vocal choirs...

    The ear is always expanding.

    If you think that ear training is ever done than you don't know about Charlie Banaco's approach to ear training. You train your ear for as long as you train your hands.

    Learn to hear single notes, dyads, triads, 7th chords completely by ear

    Learn to hear metric modulation without counting

    Learn to hear 32 bar forms without taping your feet or snapping fingers

    Learn to hear true modulation

    Learn to sing in any key or tonal area, including diminished, augmented, and other hextonic configurations.

    Learn to use set theory to arrange a standard or write a new piece.

    Learn how to communicate with the audience and my band mates so true music can surface.

    Like I said before.

    I have 3 passions:

    1. Learning

    2. Music

    3. My Girlfriend

    A passion for me is a life long pursuit. Ear training combines the first two passions. My girlfriend keeps me strong and stable enough to pursue my other passions (she is the bedrock of it all)

    Make sense?

    Without ear training, IMHO, the guitar is just a piece of wood with strings attached.

    With ear training, the guitar becomes my vessel to express all of the beauty and hardship that I observe and live. 28 years on this earth, and I've still been through some real tough shit. I also met the woman of my life, she's the one.

    I want to use music to communicate what words fail to speak.
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-31-2015 at 12:11 PM.

  48. #147
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I guess this thread is up for good...

    Friends don't let friends start threads without thinking...

    Just hope Bruce sees this as a way to introduce more people to Charlie Banaco's concepts and the materials therein

    Can't afford a lawsuit... too many expensives
    I've got enough value from the information here to make me watch Bruce Arnold on TrueFire and order the first book - and your enthusiasm is a credit to you (and to Bruce Arnold). Nice one!

  49. #148
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by targuit View Post
    Irez - pardon me for asking, but what are you looking to accomplish with this specific approach to ear training? I get the impression that you are a working jazz player / performer /student. Are your ears not yet 'trained'?

    This is not meant to be in any way facetious or provocative. I never specifically trained my ears taking a course or specific method of study. Just happened along the way for me. So why focus so intently on this area unless there are significant deficiencies? It's like spending a lot of money on multivitamins when you already eat a healthy diet. Is it worth it or necessary?
    Great question, Jay. I 'get' it, too - but I'm sure Irez can break it down.

    (But I'll reiterate an earlier - perhaps obvious - point, that the independent listening/hearing serves interactive listening/hearing. Easier said than done in the 'noise of the moment'.)

  50. #149
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I am a high school teacher who happens to be obsessed with music.

    Good question.

    I hope to reach a level where I can play anything anywhere with any person in any genre to the highest level possible. I want everything to be improvised and based in the musical moment. No preconceived voicings or chord progressions. Just my two ears and my brain.

    I want the guitar to what Segovia has said was "a set of binoculars looking through the wrong way"

    The guitar as a mini orchestra, symphony, sonic atmosphere creator.

    I want to immitate string sections, piano, brass sections, vocal choirs...

    The ear is always expanding.

    If you think that ear training is ever done than you don't know about Charlie Banaco's approach to ear training. You train your ear for as long as you train your hands.

    Learn to hear single notes, dyads, triads, 7th chords completely by ear

    Learn to hear metric modulation without counting

    Learn to hear 32 bar forms without taping your feet or snapping fingers

    Learn to hear true modulation

    Learn to sing in any key or tonal area, including diminished, augmented, and other hextonic configurations.

    Learn to use set theory to arrange a standard or write a new piece.

    Learn how to communicate with the audience and my band mates so true music can surface.

    Like I said before.

    I have 3 passions:

    1. Learning

    2. Music

    3. My Girlfriend

    A passion for me is a life long pursuit. Ear training combines the first two passions. My girlfriend keeps me strong and stable enough to pursue my other passions (she is the bedrock of it all)

    Make sense?

    Without ear training, IMHO, the guitar is just a piece of wood with strings attached.

    With ear training, the guitar becomes my vessel to express all of the beauty and hardship that I observe and live. 28 years on this earth, and I've still been through some real tough shit. I also met the woman of my life, she's the one.

    I want to use music to communicate what words fail to speak.
    Inspiring stuff. Take it on up, Irez - and may the road rise with you.

  51. #150
    One person's hyperbole can be another person's life mission or reality