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  1. #51

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    Sharing a simple contextual ear exercise:

    Pick an interval:

    Ex. ma3

    Play or sing it against a bass note progressing through chromatic cycle 4

    C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G

    in all 12 different relationships to the fundamental bass note

    Starting with:

    C E > C

    G B > C

    D F# > C

    Eb G > C

    Bb D > C

    E G# > C

    Ab C > C

    F A > C

    Gb Bb > C

    B D# > C

    Db F > C

    A C# > C

    Each relationship with the bass note is indicative of several possible larger harmonic structures.
    Ex. G B > C can be Cma7 or CmMa7 or G/C or Am9 or Fma9#11 or D13sus etc.
    Try to hear each relationship in several contexts.

    Do the same with all the other intervals (probably not on the same day).

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako View Post
    Sharing a simple contextual ear exercise:

    Pick an interval:

    Ex. ma3

    Play or sing it against a bass note progressing through chromatic cycle 4

    C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G

    in all 12 different relationships to the fundamental bass note

    Starting with:

    C E > C

    G B > C

    D F# > C

    Eb G > C

    Bb D > C

    E G# > C

    Ab C > C

    F A > C

    Gb Bb > C

    B D# > C

    Db F > C

    A C# > C

    Each relationship with the bass note is indicative of several possible larger harmonic structures.
    Ex. G B > C can be Cma7 or CmMa7 or G/C or Am9 or Fma9#11 or D13sus etc.
    Try to hear each relationship in several contexts.

    Do the same with all the other intervals (probably not on the same day).
    Reminded me of this..... Incredible



    Go to 2:50 onwards to hear I'm singing in harmony over giant steps
    Last edited by 55bar; 10-08-2015 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #53

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    Insightful comment; "The only reason why you can sing the blues and not Giant Steps is because you've done it a lot".
    Raul Midon is an incredible musician.

  5. #54
    Yupe, but the key with that exercise is not to modulate. You gotta hear it all in C, and that, for people used to interval methods, is hard to hear.

    C E > C is easy enough

    how about F# A# > C

    That's Say (b5) Tay (b5) in Cmajor

    or E G# > C

    that's Me (3) Si (#5)

    You gotta maintain that C pedal. Right now I am widening the space between pedal point hits. I will set a pedal drone every 4 or 8 measures to test if I can really hold on to the key center with all of the outside notes orbiting the pedal point and key center.

    I think many people misunderstood what I meant by playing key centers, and it really irked me. But that's why I keep it to the journal here.

    One more note, about other methods. The goal for performance ear training is to find a method where you can hear melody, harmony, and rhythm all in your head and duplicate it instantaneously on your instrument. If you can't get to this point with the method you are studying, find something else to get you there.

    Interval training, while great, trains you to analyze music in micro pieces instead performing music as a whole entity. Training your ear by singing along to solos is great, and I do this all the time. However, big however, the method looses it's power if you can't locate those pitches immediately on a piano or guitar.

    What I am discussing in this journal, for clarifying purposes, is not a method used to transcribe music at one's own pace. My ruminations here are about using ear training on the band stand, hence me posting this journal to the "bandstand" part of the forum.

    Thus, the ear training method must stress the immediacy of the response and the immediacy of the aural information. You have to hear it and play it immediately, even for this Bruce Arnold/ Charlie Banacos and company stuff (Bruce takes Charlie's stuff and continues to go further with it). Music is immediate on the band stand, especially when playing with a band. There is no time to go "I think I hear a major 3" because that moment is gone. Does all that make sense?

  6. #55
    I've actually tried singing Giant Steps to internalize the sound of the song. This is how I learn tunes now. It is totally separate from the instrument AND it give you the most freedom on your instrument.

    However... I disagree with Raul's explanation as it is off with his performance

    Stick with me here...

    I have hunch, because Raul is ridonkulous and can see sound that he is trying to relate what he is doing to "what we are supposed to think with theory"

    Still with me here? I am not discrediting Raul, as I have heard him on various recordings. He is a BEAST of a musician, and I don't take the M word lightly.

    However, his explanation of Giant Steps in 3 keys is the typical theory explanation. Yes it is written that way...


    ...But, it doesn't sound like that...


    Many of you might be hitting the "Post Quick Reply" button right now. Wait a bit longer


    Giant Steps is in one key, and one key only... B major.


    Blasphemy, this guy doesn't know what he is talking about! Tear down the thread, you say. Stop the presses, you say.


    ...Let me finish


    Look at the tempo Giant Steps is played at, usually. 200bpm is slow for this song. People play it around 280 to 300 bpm (I can't play it that quick, makes my heart skip a beat just thinking of that tempo)

    ...hmmm... So, here's the point where I bust down another myth in most jazz

    ...Modulations don't exist in most jazz

    What?

    If we use the well developed ear to define modulations, they will locate an entirely new key shift that is thoroughly stated with repetition of harmonic and melodic structures (even in modal forms). This happens in... classical music. Why? Because classical pieces are longer than the standard jazz form. They have the space to modulate.

    I propose that jazz and standards work on a home key by tonicization. The references to new key centers are brief. In Giant Steps the references are extremely brief. Even in Have You Met Miss Jones, I argue those "modulations" are tonicizations. Even "So What".

    What does that mean?

    For some of us that will mean never listening to my ruminations on the thread again I joke, but if that's the case, that's fine. This is my take.

    For me, it means practicing Giant Steps in the Key of B with B being my drone or pedal point for reference. Should I go further, or is this idea to radical? Not belittling here, but my ideas might be too much in conflict with what many of us learned in music school. So I understand if people will be PO'ed by the concept I got from Bruce Arnold.

    But why? Who am I to tear down this notion that jazz is complex because of modulations. Who did I play with? Where are my credentials? Where is my album? How dare I?

    Simple. I am a reckless human being...

    No, that's not it.

    I like over complicating things...

    No, that's not it either.

    I can't play chord changes?

    Nope. I sell myself short a lot, but I can play changes. That's not it either.

    THEN WHY, DAG NAMMIT, YOUR POST IS ALREADY TOO LONG, JUST SAY IT!

    Okay, okay. This method of rethinking of Jazz in home keys where tonicizations orbit around the home key help you solo...

    ?

    They help you solo by adding a melodic cohesion to everything you play. You are playing a tune, not a random set of changes, right? You can think in larger chunks and more compositionally this way as well. You can develop your solo instead of playing separate lines. You can... tell a story (there it is again )

    Don't knock it until you try it
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 06:26 PM.

  7. #56

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    But the fun part of STEPS is following the changes!

    It's a very catchy melody though. I always giggle when people who can't play it say it sounds "like an exercise."

    Yeah, an exercise you can whistle all day!
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  8. #57
    I will do another "pod cast" on singing through Giant Steps. Did you guys enjoy my last pod cast on "rhythmic cadence & phraseology"? They aren't terribly hard to record, but I have to make sure no one is home to do them. If you all like them, I will continue.

    I feel like many of you will be pissed with my post on Giant Steps, so recording the pod cast thingy would give some credibility and application to the concept.


    Yes?

    No?

  9. #58

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    Piss people off, it's good for them.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  10. #59
    Well, if we ever start a rhythm thread (WHY THE HECK NOT!) My first post would be on analyzing Silento's "Watch Me" from a rhythmic perspective to glean the postives from contemporary hip hop pop. Then I would dissect the beats that my students make on their desks with their pens and fists. That would piss people off. But, see, you's and me would be the only people that know bout that cause we's learn up the children good

    But, I would do the analysis with utmost care. Cause there actually is valuable material in that stuff. That would piss people off more....

    Oh, don't you dare bring hip hop into my jazz. Guess what, hip hop is the evolution of jazz. Live with it. I've finally come around to that point myself (wasn't easy). All this exclusive bs actually hurts jazz. I think you can guess what I think of Wynton as a person. Regardless, I love his music!

    There's two types of music

    GOOD

    and

    BAD

    fuck labels

    Would that work, Jeff? If I ever go back to Chi-town, let's meet at Lou Mitchells

    Seriously, eggs like pillows...mmmmmm

    I went there just in time for the Taste festival. So much fun. Dare I say, it may be a cooler city than NYC... The people there are certainly nicer
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 09:30 PM.

  11. #60

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    Hell yeah, lets.

    Back in the day, when i was a teenager, before i had status and before i had a pager, you could find the abstract, listening to hip hop, my pops used to say it reminded him of bebop...
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #61
    Tribe!

    I said, well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles

    Words of wisdom just in the first few minutes of that cut!
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 09:54 PM.

  13. #62
    A preview of up coming entries on the journal

    1. taking a contemporary hip hop song and reducing it to it's rhythmic phrasing. Titled: What can jazz musicians learn from hip hop?

    2. Giant Steps in one key: jazz, tonicization, and the myth of modulation pod cast

    3. Being honest with ear training: how to guard against "faking it" with musicianship studies

    4. Musical journeys, musical origins: finding the folk song within the jazz tune

    Any other ideas are welcome, but these are some topics I want to cover next.
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 10:43 PM.

  14. #63

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    examples of: when the entire band plays rhythm- any melody or harmony is secondary...more like cries punctuating, than melody



    fela kuti broke it down even more purely

    indian classical...moroccan gnawa...the roots ...pure beat/groove/primordial heartbeat





    cheers

  15. #64
    Loved it! That's it, I need to go to Meknes and see where it all started on my mom's side. This music really speaks to me, and I'd love to see where I can take it within the "jazz idiom" Sounds more bluesy than Eric Clapton. Wow, BB King look out
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 11:31 PM.

  16. #65


    This sounds like Art Blakey... whoa! Like not even a slight parallel. This sounds exactly like something Blakey would play. I love tracing these parallels. This is what makes jazz exciting for me, finding the source material.



    Do y'all hear it?

  17. #66

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    Irez,

    Again this is life changing stuff I cannot Thank you enough!

    Question: I've already bought one note, hearing bass lines, big metronome, and contextual, what are your thoughts on the perfect pitch course?

  18. #67
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    A preview of up coming entries on the journal

    1. taking a contemporary hip hop song and reducing it to it's rhythmic phrasing. Titled: What can jazz musicians learn from hip hop?

    2. Giant Steps in one key: jazz, tonicization, and the myth of modulation pod cast

    3. Being honest with ear training: how to guard against "faking it" with musicianship studies

    4. Musical journeys, musical origins: finding the folk song within the jazz tune

    Any other ideas are welcome, but these are some topics I want to cover next.
    Looking forward to it (but louder, please!). This thread is inspired and inspiring, by the way - THANK YOU!

  19. #68

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    For me, it means practicing Giant Steps in the Key of B
    with B being my drone or pedal point for reference.
    Why the key of B?
    In some ways, there is an equivalency between B, Eb and G
    although the song ends on Eb.

    Interested to hear your thoughts, thanks.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Hell yeah, lets.

    Back in the day, when i was a teenager, before i had status and before i had a pager, you could find the abstract, listening to hip hop, my pops used to say it reminded him of bebop...
    I really like Pharaoh Monche. His phrasing is awesome.

  21. #70
    bako, I have a long 3-day weekend ahead of me. I promise to devote one of those days to properly, with the tech I have at my disposal, record a pod cast fully explaining the concept of hearing Giant Steps in one key. I know that talk is cheap, so I will sing some examples (or try to sing) as well to illustrate the concept.

    55bar, to address your statement:

    Question: I've already bought one note, hearing bass lines, big metronome, and contextual, what are your thoughts on the perfect pitch course?

    I am not calling you out, this is from a good place. Don't bite off more than you can chew. You are not ready for the hearing bass lines course yet. And the perfect pitch course... I never used it. But, it is a completely different concept and process.

    Me saying "you are not ready" sounds belittling and egotistical. I'm not about that, not in my playing, not in the way I carry myself. As a teacher (SPED) I can tell you right now, you are not ready for the bass lines course.

    Why?

    Because the hearing bass lines course is dependent on a different set of prerequisites. You need to look at each of Bruce's courses as courses that you would take in college. You can't go straight to Calculus without taking pre Cal or testing out of it. Same with the ear training.

    Here's the distinction. Bruce makes practicing the material easier, since you can listen on your ipod or whatever. HOWEVER, his courses are not a "quick fix". I really stress the point that it took me six years to get to where I am with my ear training. I am just beginning to hear those basslines, and not even as accurately as I should.

    Some points about hearing bass lines:

    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s)

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins.

    And that's just the start

  22. #71
    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key. You need to master the one note to the point where you can do the advanced level without thinking at the speed of light... or whatever This means NO CRUTCHES, no remembering melodies, no depending on resolution tendencies.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s). This is where interval ear training starts to fall apart, unfortunately. You need to hear the sound of the note against the key. DO NOT relate the notes to each other.

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins. This is the hardest part, believe it or not. You have to develop your ability to hold on to a key center without modulating. Remember, all of those bass lines are in Cmajor.

    I wish Bruce made ordering the physical copies of his courses easier and cheaper. I will talk to him about that. I am not saying anything on this thread that isn't in the answers to the FAQs he includes in the book version of the courses. He has the same FAQs in the electronic versions, but I (can't speak for everyone) tend to totally ignore the PDFs. DON'T DO THAT, you will miss valuable information on how to use the course.

    So, walk, don't run. I promise that you will make more progress if you focus on a little bit at first as opposed to trying to tackle Calculus when you are still learning Trig 2. Dig?

    Sorry for the all caps, the change in fonts really messes up my posts for some reason. The caps are for stressing a point. I am not yelling at you, 55bar. I'm glad you are into Bruce's material, I just want to make sure you don't prematurely give up on it because you are practicing courses out of sequence. I want to help, not harm

    If you PM me, I will gladly give you Bruce's personal email. I would rather not post it here, kay?

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key. You need to master the one note to the point where you can do the advanced level without thinking at the speed of light... or whatever This means NO CRUTCHES, no remembering melodies, no depending on resolution tendencies.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s). This is where interval ear training starts to fall apart, unfortunately. You need to hear the sound of the note against the key. DO NOT relate the notes to each other.

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins. This is the hardest part, believe it or not. You have to develop your ability to hold on to a key center without modulating. Remember, all of those bass lines are in Cmajor.

    I wish Bruce made ordering the physical copies of his courses easier and cheaper. I will talk to him about that. I am not saying anything on this thread that isn't in the answers to the FAQs he includes in the book version of the courses. He has the same FAQs in the electronic versions, but I (can't speak for everyone) tend to totally ignore the PDFs. DON'T DO THAT, you will miss valuable information on how to use the course.

    So, walk, don't run. I promise that you will make more progress if you focus on a little bit at first as opposed to trying to tackle Calculus when you are still learning Trig 2. Dig?

    Sorry for the all caps, the change in fonts really messes up my posts for some reason. The caps are for stressing a point. I am not yelling at you, 55bar. I'm glad you are into Bruce's material, I just want to make sure you don't prematurely give up on it because you are practicing courses out of sequence. I want to help, not harm

    If you PM me, I will gladly give you Bruce's personal email. I would rather not post it here, kay?
    Hey man,

    All understood, here's how it happened, I started with the one note and loved it it's been 3 weeks now of 5-8 times a day, I'm getting better slowly.

    I got excited and though hmmm this bass lines one looks great and this big metronome one looks awesome etc... After trying the bass lines I quickly realised that I'm NOT AT ALL READY!

    So back to the one note, I'm getting better, for a laugh I tried level 3 last night before bed, it MAKES you go on your instinct, where level one you can "talk yourself" out of your decision.

    I got about 70% correct at this speed BUT not 100% more importantly it needs to be 100% every time no question.

    I keep telling myself it took you 6 years and to keep going, some sessions are better than others.

    I'm still struggling with Aug 4 and Aug 5 sometimes I get them right every time other times I just walk down the street with headphones in shouting "damn it was a D#!, you moron!" ..... I get some funny looks.

  24. #73
    No problem, I was gonna PM you the message, but I knew you were tough enough to handle that message in public. I did the exact same thing. I was super excited and almost bought the entire website's worth of ear training. And I study with the guy in person, so I should know better . Anyway, it's money well spent. The only major cost to me is the memory it takes up on my laptop.

    But I seriously think you should email Bruce personally. PM me and I will gladly give you his email as I see you are serious about his studies. He is extremely serious about helping students go through his courses the right way. He is not about that mess of wasting time studying the wrong material at the wrong time with the wrong technique

    That's why I call him a musical Shaman. It's not musical hyperbole here, it's truth.

    Also, and Bruce says this all the time. He is very into psychology... He states that you need to maintain a positive attitude while working through his courses and he is absolutely right (I study meta-cognition and basic psychology for my job as a SPED teacher. I am serious when I consider myself a learning expert )

    So, negativity sends less dopamine to the brain and makes you "move" slower:

    http://scicurious.scientopia.org/201...e-d2-receptor/

    Also, the brain does not function well under frustration:

    http://cogsci.stackexchange.com/ques...louds-the-mind

    So, give yourself positive encouragement. You, my friend, waded through all the bs that other people here were shoveling about ear training not being important. You, my friend, are approaching ear training with one of the correct and valid methods (there are only a few). Never call yourself an idiot with these studies. Call yourself smart, call yourself lucky. Practice positive thinking, it will help you progress faster. That is another promise that I can back up with science
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-10-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    No problem, I was gonna PM you the message, but I knew you were tough enough to handle that message in public. I did the exact same thing. I was super excited and almost bought the entire website's worth of ear training. And I study with the guy in person, so I should know better . Anyway, it's money well spent. The only major cost to me is the memory it takes up on my laptop.

    But I seriously think you should email Bruce personally. PM me and I will gladly give you his email as I see you are serious about his studies. He is extremely serious about helping students go through his courses the right way. He is not about that mess of wasting time studying the wrong material at the wrong time with the wrong technique

    That's why I call him a musical Shaman. It's not musical hyperbole here, it's truth.

    Also, and Bruce says this all the time. He is very into psychology... He states that you need to maintain a positive attitude while working through his courses and he is absolutely right (I study meta-cognition and basic psychology for my job as a SPED teacher. I am serious when I consider myself a learning expert )

    So, negativity sends less dopamine to the brain and makes you "move" slower:

    http://scicurious.scientopia.org/201...e-d2-receptor/

    Also, the brain does not function well under frustration:

    http://cogsci.stackexchange.com/ques...louds-the-mind

    So, give yourself positive encouragement. You, my friend, waded through all the bs that other people here were shoveling about ear training not being important. You, my friend, are approaching ear training with one of the correct and valid methods (there are only a few). Never call yourself an idiot with these studies. Call yourself smart, call yourself lucky. Practice positive thinking, it will help you progress faster. That is another promise that I can back up with science
    Hey man thanks for the encouragement, I'll pm you and get Bruce email, I'm super into how we learn I follow Tim ferriss podcast and my favourite episode so far is the josh waitzkin one his book the art of learning is brilliant if you haven't heard of him check the Tim ferriss podcast.

  26. #75
    I've heard of Tim Ferriss, but I never checked him out. Now I want to. But, my back kept me up all night, so I need to go back to sleep... I am falling apart and I am not even 30 I need to work out, guys, this is no bueno

    Got my PT appointment again today, I found a good one But I gotta go to the gym and stop making excuses

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I've heard of Tim Ferriss, but I never checked him out. Now I want to. But, my back kept me up all night, so I need to go back to sleep... I am falling apart and I am not even 30 I need to work out, guys, this is no bueno

    Got my PT appointment again today, I found a good one But I gotta go to the gym and stop making excuses
    Now I'm going to sound like you. Tim is a learning guru AND a fitness expert, since I got into him I've completely changed my whole outlook on learning and fitness, you will thank me

  28. #77
    Yea, man. I am turning 29 in January. My dad is 70, but he is in better shape than me. He is a bicycle fanatic (think Tour de Fance) and works out on his Bowflex everyday. When it's too hot to ride, he goes kayaking with my mom. When it's snowing, he goes cross country skiing. What the hell happened to me?

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Yea, man. I am turning 29 in January. My dad is 70, but he is in better shape than me. He is a bicycle fanatic (think Tour de Fance) and works out on his Bowflex everyday. When it's too hot to ride, he goes kayaking with my mom. When it's snowing, he goes cross country skiing. What the hell happened to me?
    Irez are your back problems related to playing? If so you might want to look into posture... Alexander Technique may help. I know quite a few musicians who have studied Alexander, although there are some detractors.

    I have to say I think that a lot of my problems with posture come from not properly engaging my core.

    I also need to practice standing straight with the instrument properly with the core muscles engaged. Obviously a guitar is heavy, so there may be an issue about the back here. But I don't just practice with the guitar...

    I can see that strength training would be a good idea too, with a good fitness instructor...

    Finally a simple thing that helps my back when playing seated is a Dynarette cushion. It's way better than a footstool or a strap, and my back has got a bit better since...

    Exercise wise, I swim around 1km 3 times a week - I did take swimming lessons to make sure I had a good technique that wasn't casuing back probelms etc, something I would recommend. It's not a massive amount of exercise, TBH, but compared to what I was doing 5 years ago, it's a lot!

    It is great though - I have been more gentle with myself than I should, perhaps, but the aim was not to 'get into shape' - more to have something sustainable in my life exercise related - just increasing the amount I do a little bit week on week. I would be the last to say I am in great shape, but I have much more energy, better concentration and fitness because of this, and I am keen to do more.

    I'm also considering practicing standing only. It turns out that people who work on their feet are in better shape than people who work a sedentary job and go to the gym a few times every week - the continuous small lifestyle changes are the ones that really stick as I understand it.

  30. #79
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Irez are your back problems related to playing? If so you might want to look into posture... Alexander Technique may help. I know quite a few musicians who have studied Alexander, although there are some detractors.

    I have to say I think that a lot of my problems with posture come from not properly engaging my core.

    I also need to practice standing straight with the instrument properly with the core muscles engaged. Obviously a guitar is heavy, so there may be an issue about the back here. But I don't just practice with the guitar...

    I can see that strength training would be a good idea too, with a good fitness instructor...

    Finally a simple thing that helps my back when playing seated is a Dynarette cushion. It's way better than a footstool or a strap, and my back has got a bit better since...

    Exercise wise, I swim around 1km 3 times a week - I did take swimming lessons to make sure I had a good technique that wasn't casuing back probelms etc, something I would recommend. It's not a massive amount of exercise, TBH, but compared to what I was doing 5 years ago, it's a lot!

    It is great though - I have been more gentle with myself than I should, perhaps, but the aim was not to 'get into shape' - more to have something sustainable in my life exercise related - just increasing the amount I do a little bit week on week. I would be the last to say I am in great shape, but I have much more energy, better concentration and fitness because of this, and I am keen to do more.

    I'm also considering practicing standing only. It turns out that people who work on their feet are in better shape than people who work a sedentary job and go to the gym a few times every week - the continuous small lifestyle changes are the ones that really stick as I understand it.
    I've studied the Alexander Technique - I've practised it for over thirty years - and I've found it works for managing chronic problems related to poor body use and habits.

    What I most like about Alexander Technique is that it helped me develop the awareness needed to learn tai chi, which works preventive wonders for health (and particularly benefits older people).

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    I've studied the Alexander Technique - I've practised it for over thirty years - and I've found it works for managing chronic problems related to poor body use and habits.

    What I most like about Alexander Technique is that it helped me develop the awareness needed to learn tai chi, which works preventive wonders for health (and particularly benefits older people).
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!
    I've been learning TI Swimming for a few years


    Really helped my back.

  33. #82
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!
    I stumbled into the Alexander Technique looking for a solution to back pain, but I kept up weekly private lessons for years. I used to think of them as a holiday.

    I'm in my late 50s, and I find what works best for me is a healthy lifestyle (with the right diet and the right exercise) alongside regular conventional medical checks. (I see my doctor, who's a huge jazz fan, as a trusted advisor who helps me manage my health.)

    What's ironic is that I'm in the heart of the city, yet the pace of life here is blissfully slow. And I get to practise tai chi with a private teacher in a quiet little square near the cathedral.

    I've attended a few Alexander Technique workshops for musicians, which were enjoyable and useful at the time.

    But the Alexander Technique is meant to be applied to all physical activity; it's more about poise than posture, and once you know the technique you can apply it to any activity you wish ("teach a man to fish etc."). It's about mechanical advantage.

    Tai chi is essential to me now and, like the Alexander Technique (and I don't think it's coincidental), it involves 'non-doing' which in turn requires a particular quality of awareness of body use that helps when it comes to changing habits. (There is a movement in the form that's called Play Guitar.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-10-2015 at 11:27 AM.

  34. #83
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    I've been learning TI Swimming for a few years


    Really helped my back.
    Beautiful.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    I've been learning TI Swimming for a few years


    Really helped my back.
    I did Shaw Method, which judging from the videos is similar in many ways ...

  36. #85
    There is another thread on PT if you guys wanna search it on the forum. But I am totally cool with you all posting about PT, as that is one of my main concerns right now.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    There is another thread on PT if you guys wanna search it on the forum. But I am totally cool with you all posting about PT, as that is one of my main concerns right now.
    Sorry point taken

  38. #87
    destinytot Guest
    It's a bold claim, and I can't substantiate it, but I believe that bodywork enhances intonation.

    (I can say that my daughter self-corrects her pitch to a fine degree of accuracy, and I believe it to be a function of confidence and expectation - her own and mine, and not of any proprietary method.)
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-10-2015 at 02:12 PM.

  39. #88
    no problem, I don't care. Just saying, there is more on that thread. I have made this my thread, so whatever comes up, I am fine with. I am even okay with disagreements and different ear training methods. However, I will shoot down any belittling or ego tripping on this thread. Ain't nobody got time for that childish shite. I may have to contact the mod to make sure a certain someone doesn't toxify my thread here with his ego. This is kinda my thread, but I want it to be a thread for everyone who is hip to ear training to talk freely. But those points about ego and belittling are my non-negotiable. I deal with teenagers who are learning to be adults on a daily basis. I expect adults to be better at conducting themselves. Not mentioning names, just saying
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-10-2015 at 02:15 PM.

  40. #89
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    no problem, I don't care. Just saying, there is more on that thread. I have made this my thread, so whatever comes up, I am fine with. I am even okay with disagreements and different ear training methods. However, I will shoot down any belittling or ego tripping on this thread. Ain't nobody got time for that childish shite. I may have to contact the mod to make sure a certain someone doesn't toxify my thread here with his ego. Not mentioning names, just saying
    I think you should mention names - deal with it or drop it.

  41. #90
    I originally sent this to Chris '77, but what the hell:



    Yeah, the drone is back, but it is a lot quieter, I hope

  42. #91
    From the source:



    Next time I see Bruce, I will ask him if he can contribute some posts so you can hear his ruminations in person

    I will try, promise

    Giant Steps in B major tonality is coming soon.





    I hope the idea of Bruce as a Shaman is better understood. Either a shaman or a mad scientist of all things music.

    He doesn't consider himself a jazz musician. That is too small a label for him. He just considers himself a MUSICIAN





    I leave you all to evaluate Bruce's validity. Don't take my word for it **cue Reading Rainbow theme**

  43. #92
    destinytot Guest
    Bruce Arnold on the type of ear training he teaches (@8:37 of interview video): "Most schools teach interval training. I teach a system that's based on learning all twelve pitches against a key centre."

  44. #93
    Here is another pod cast on phaseology and rhythmic cadence:



    I will post the Giant Steps pod cast on Monday, I've already set aside time for it. It will be louder as well, as no one else will be home

  45. #94


    Thile explains the whole notion of genre and approach very well.

  46. #95

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    Update: I contacted Bruce thanks Alex, he got back to me and prescribed me some exercises based on what I told him, seems like a great guy.

  47. #96
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-12-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  48. #97
    For all to enjoy... or cringe at...

    The GIANT STEPS pod cast

    "Hearing Tunes In Their Home Key: Giant Steps"



    Get the Metro-Drone here:

    http://muse-eek.com/metrodrone-all-p...practice-tool/

  49. #98

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    Hey Alex, thanks for the giant steps pod cast, I'll have a listen.

    Bruce gave me these exercises.

    With the rhythm book, and the metrodrone he's getting me to do five pages a day singing the tonesI find tough against a drone with the rhythms in the book.

    He's also getting me to great playlists from the contextual ear book in my MP3 player. For example I'll have a playlist for root notes one for 3rds one for 5ths one for 7ths (both major and minor)

    This is helping so much so I'm practicing singing them as many times a day as I can muster.

    I tried the singing Aug 4 today along with the rhythm ex 1 with a C bass drone at 190 bpm, this stuff is WORKING!
    Last edited by 55bar; 10-12-2015 at 05:16 PM.

  50. #99
    As Kermit the Frog would say...

    YEEEEY


  51. #100

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    Just listened to the Giant Steps podcast. Interesting & thought provoking... :-)