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  1. #51

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    Hell yeah, lets.

    Back in the day, when i was a teenager, before i had status and before i had a pager, you could find the abstract, listening to hip hop, my pops used to say it reminded him of bebop...
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    Tribe!

    I said, well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles

    Words of wisdom just in the first few minutes of that cut!
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #53
    A preview of up coming entries on the journal

    1. taking a contemporary hip hop song and reducing it to it's rhythmic phrasing. Titled: What can jazz musicians learn from hip hop?

    2. Giant Steps in one key: jazz, tonicization, and the myth of modulation pod cast

    3. Being honest with ear training: how to guard against "faking it" with musicianship studies

    4. Musical journeys, musical origins: finding the folk song within the jazz tune

    Any other ideas are welcome, but these are some topics I want to cover next.
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-08-2015 at 10:43 PM.

  5. #54


    This sounds like Art Blakey... whoa! Like not even a slight parallel. This sounds exactly like something Blakey would play. I love tracing these parallels. This is what makes jazz exciting for me, finding the source material.



    Do y'all hear it?

  6. #55

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    Irez,

    Again this is life changing stuff I cannot Thank you enough!

    Question: I've already bought one note, hearing bass lines, big metronome, and contextual, what are your thoughts on the perfect pitch course?

  7. #56
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    A preview of up coming entries on the journal

    1. taking a contemporary hip hop song and reducing it to it's rhythmic phrasing. Titled: What can jazz musicians learn from hip hop?

    2. Giant Steps in one key: jazz, tonicization, and the myth of modulation pod cast

    3. Being honest with ear training: how to guard against "faking it" with musicianship studies

    4. Musical journeys, musical origins: finding the folk song within the jazz tune

    Any other ideas are welcome, but these are some topics I want to cover next.
    Looking forward to it (but louder, please!). This thread is inspired and inspiring, by the way - THANK YOU!

  8. #57

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    For me, it means practicing Giant Steps in the Key of B
    with B being my drone or pedal point for reference.
    Why the key of B?
    In some ways, there is an equivalency between B, Eb and G
    although the song ends on Eb.

    Interested to hear your thoughts, thanks.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Hell yeah, lets.

    Back in the day, when i was a teenager, before i had status and before i had a pager, you could find the abstract, listening to hip hop, my pops used to say it reminded him of bebop...
    I really like Pharaoh Monche. His phrasing is awesome.

  10. #59
    bako, I have a long 3-day weekend ahead of me. I promise to devote one of those days to properly, with the tech I have at my disposal, record a pod cast fully explaining the concept of hearing Giant Steps in one key. I know that talk is cheap, so I will sing some examples (or try to sing) as well to illustrate the concept.

    55bar, to address your statement:

    Question: I've already bought one note, hearing bass lines, big metronome, and contextual, what are your thoughts on the perfect pitch course?

    I am not calling you out, this is from a good place. Don't bite off more than you can chew. You are not ready for the hearing bass lines course yet. And the perfect pitch course... I never used it. But, it is a completely different concept and process.

    Me saying "you are not ready" sounds belittling and egotistical. I'm not about that, not in my playing, not in the way I carry myself. As a teacher (SPED) I can tell you right now, you are not ready for the bass lines course.

    Why?

    Because the hearing bass lines course is dependent on a different set of prerequisites. You need to look at each of Bruce's courses as courses that you would take in college. You can't go straight to Calculus without taking pre Cal or testing out of it. Same with the ear training.

    Here's the distinction. Bruce makes practicing the material easier, since you can listen on your ipod or whatever. HOWEVER, his courses are not a "quick fix". I really stress the point that it took me six years to get to where I am with my ear training. I am just beginning to hear those basslines, and not even as accurately as I should.

    Some points about hearing bass lines:

    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s)

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins.

    And that's just the start

  11. #60
    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key. You need to master the one note to the point where you can do the advanced level without thinking at the speed of light... or whatever This means NO CRUTCHES, no remembering melodies, no depending on resolution tendencies.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s). This is where interval ear training starts to fall apart, unfortunately. You need to hear the sound of the note against the key. DO NOT relate the notes to each other.

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins. This is the hardest part, believe it or not. You have to develop your ability to hold on to a key center without modulating. Remember, all of those bass lines are in Cmajor.

    I wish Bruce made ordering the physical copies of his courses easier and cheaper. I will talk to him about that. I am not saying anything on this thread that isn't in the answers to the FAQs he includes in the book version of the courses. He has the same FAQs in the electronic versions, but I (can't speak for everyone) tend to totally ignore the PDFs. DON'T DO THAT, you will miss valuable information on how to use the course.

    So, walk, don't run. I promise that you will make more progress if you focus on a little bit at first as opposed to trying to tackle Calculus when you are still learning Trig 2. Dig?

    Sorry for the all caps, the change in fonts really messes up my posts for some reason. The caps are for stressing a point. I am not yelling at you, 55bar. I'm glad you are into Bruce's material, I just want to make sure you don't prematurely give up on it because you are practicing courses out of sequence. I want to help, not harm

    If you PM me, I will gladly give you Bruce's personal email. I would rather not post it here, kay?

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    1. The register is quite low. You need to hear notes in "normal" registers first. If you play bass, you might already have an ear for this. However, the bass lines are not the right place to start.

    2. You are hearing more than one note in a row (four notes) against a key. You need to master the one note to the point where you can do the advanced level without thinking at the speed of light... or whatever This means NO CRUTCHES, no remembering melodies, no depending on resolution tendencies.

    3. You are hearing compound jumps (13s, 15s, 9s). This is where interval ear training starts to fall apart, unfortunately. You need to hear the sound of the note against the key. DO NOT relate the notes to each other.

    4. The cadence does not carry over into the melodic material. It ends and the line begins. This is the hardest part, believe it or not. You have to develop your ability to hold on to a key center without modulating. Remember, all of those bass lines are in Cmajor.

    I wish Bruce made ordering the physical copies of his courses easier and cheaper. I will talk to him about that. I am not saying anything on this thread that isn't in the answers to the FAQs he includes in the book version of the courses. He has the same FAQs in the electronic versions, but I (can't speak for everyone) tend to totally ignore the PDFs. DON'T DO THAT, you will miss valuable information on how to use the course.

    So, walk, don't run. I promise that you will make more progress if you focus on a little bit at first as opposed to trying to tackle Calculus when you are still learning Trig 2. Dig?

    Sorry for the all caps, the change in fonts really messes up my posts for some reason. The caps are for stressing a point. I am not yelling at you, 55bar. I'm glad you are into Bruce's material, I just want to make sure you don't prematurely give up on it because you are practicing courses out of sequence. I want to help, not harm

    If you PM me, I will gladly give you Bruce's personal email. I would rather not post it here, kay?
    Hey man,

    All understood, here's how it happened, I started with the one note and loved it it's been 3 weeks now of 5-8 times a day, I'm getting better slowly.

    I got excited and though hmmm this bass lines one looks great and this big metronome one looks awesome etc... After trying the bass lines I quickly realised that I'm NOT AT ALL READY!

    So back to the one note, I'm getting better, for a laugh I tried level 3 last night before bed, it MAKES you go on your instinct, where level one you can "talk yourself" out of your decision.

    I got about 70% correct at this speed BUT not 100% more importantly it needs to be 100% every time no question.

    I keep telling myself it took you 6 years and to keep going, some sessions are better than others.

    I'm still struggling with Aug 4 and Aug 5 sometimes I get them right every time other times I just walk down the street with headphones in shouting "damn it was a D#!, you moron!" ..... I get some funny looks.

  13. #62
    No problem, I was gonna PM you the message, but I knew you were tough enough to handle that message in public. I did the exact same thing. I was super excited and almost bought the entire website's worth of ear training. And I study with the guy in person, so I should know better . Anyway, it's money well spent. The only major cost to me is the memory it takes up on my laptop.

    But I seriously think you should email Bruce personally. PM me and I will gladly give you his email as I see you are serious about his studies. He is extremely serious about helping students go through his courses the right way. He is not about that mess of wasting time studying the wrong material at the wrong time with the wrong technique

    That's why I call him a musical Shaman. It's not musical hyperbole here, it's truth.

    Also, and Bruce says this all the time. He is very into psychology... He states that you need to maintain a positive attitude while working through his courses and he is absolutely right (I study meta-cognition and basic psychology for my job as a SPED teacher. I am serious when I consider myself a learning expert )

    So, negativity sends less dopamine to the brain and makes you "move" slower:

    http://scicurious.scientopia.org/201...e-d2-receptor/

    Also, the brain does not function well under frustration:

    http://cogsci.stackexchange.com/ques...louds-the-mind

    So, give yourself positive encouragement. You, my friend, waded through all the bs that other people here were shoveling about ear training not being important. You, my friend, are approaching ear training with one of the correct and valid methods (there are only a few). Never call yourself an idiot with these studies. Call yourself smart, call yourself lucky. Practice positive thinking, it will help you progress faster. That is another promise that I can back up with science
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-10-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    No problem, I was gonna PM you the message, but I knew you were tough enough to handle that message in public. I did the exact same thing. I was super excited and almost bought the entire website's worth of ear training. And I study with the guy in person, so I should know better . Anyway, it's money well spent. The only major cost to me is the memory it takes up on my laptop.

    But I seriously think you should email Bruce personally. PM me and I will gladly give you his email as I see you are serious about his studies. He is extremely serious about helping students go through his courses the right way. He is not about that mess of wasting time studying the wrong material at the wrong time with the wrong technique

    That's why I call him a musical Shaman. It's not musical hyperbole here, it's truth.

    Also, and Bruce says this all the time. He is very into psychology... He states that you need to maintain a positive attitude while working through his courses and he is absolutely right (I study meta-cognition and basic psychology for my job as a SPED teacher. I am serious when I consider myself a learning expert )

    So, negativity sends less dopamine to the brain and makes you "move" slower:

    http://scicurious.scientopia.org/201...e-d2-receptor/

    Also, the brain does not function well under frustration:

    http://cogsci.stackexchange.com/ques...louds-the-mind

    So, give yourself positive encouragement. You, my friend, waded through all the bs that other people here were shoveling about ear training not being important. You, my friend, are approaching ear training with one of the correct and valid methods (there are only a few). Never call yourself an idiot with these studies. Call yourself smart, call yourself lucky. Practice positive thinking, it will help you progress faster. That is another promise that I can back up with science
    Hey man thanks for the encouragement, I'll pm you and get Bruce email, I'm super into how we learn I follow Tim ferriss podcast and my favourite episode so far is the josh waitzkin one his book the art of learning is brilliant if you haven't heard of him check the Tim ferriss podcast.

  15. #64
    I've heard of Tim Ferriss, but I never checked him out. Now I want to. But, my back kept me up all night, so I need to go back to sleep... I am falling apart and I am not even 30 I need to work out, guys, this is no bueno

    Got my PT appointment again today, I found a good one But I gotta go to the gym and stop making excuses

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I've heard of Tim Ferriss, but I never checked him out. Now I want to. But, my back kept me up all night, so I need to go back to sleep... I am falling apart and I am not even 30 I need to work out, guys, this is no bueno

    Got my PT appointment again today, I found a good one But I gotta go to the gym and stop making excuses
    Now I'm going to sound like you. Tim is a learning guru AND a fitness expert, since I got into him I've completely changed my whole outlook on learning and fitness, you will thank me

  17. #66
    Yea, man. I am turning 29 in January. My dad is 70, but he is in better shape than me. He is a bicycle fanatic (think Tour de Fance) and works out on his Bowflex everyday. When it's too hot to ride, he goes kayaking with my mom. When it's snowing, he goes cross country skiing. What the hell happened to me?

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Yea, man. I am turning 29 in January. My dad is 70, but he is in better shape than me. He is a bicycle fanatic (think Tour de Fance) and works out on his Bowflex everyday. When it's too hot to ride, he goes kayaking with my mom. When it's snowing, he goes cross country skiing. What the hell happened to me?
    Irez are your back problems related to playing? If so you might want to look into posture... Alexander Technique may help. I know quite a few musicians who have studied Alexander, although there are some detractors.

    I have to say I think that a lot of my problems with posture come from not properly engaging my core.

    I also need to practice standing straight with the instrument properly with the core muscles engaged. Obviously a guitar is heavy, so there may be an issue about the back here. But I don't just practice with the guitar...

    I can see that strength training would be a good idea too, with a good fitness instructor...

    Finally a simple thing that helps my back when playing seated is a Dynarette cushion. It's way better than a footstool or a strap, and my back has got a bit better since...

    Exercise wise, I swim around 1km 3 times a week - I did take swimming lessons to make sure I had a good technique that wasn't casuing back probelms etc, something I would recommend. It's not a massive amount of exercise, TBH, but compared to what I was doing 5 years ago, it's a lot!

    It is great though - I have been more gentle with myself than I should, perhaps, but the aim was not to 'get into shape' - more to have something sustainable in my life exercise related - just increasing the amount I do a little bit week on week. I would be the last to say I am in great shape, but I have much more energy, better concentration and fitness because of this, and I am keen to do more.

    I'm also considering practicing standing only. It turns out that people who work on their feet are in better shape than people who work a sedentary job and go to the gym a few times every week - the continuous small lifestyle changes are the ones that really stick as I understand it.

  19. #68
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Irez are your back problems related to playing? If so you might want to look into posture... Alexander Technique may help. I know quite a few musicians who have studied Alexander, although there are some detractors.

    I have to say I think that a lot of my problems with posture come from not properly engaging my core.

    I also need to practice standing straight with the instrument properly with the core muscles engaged. Obviously a guitar is heavy, so there may be an issue about the back here. But I don't just practice with the guitar...

    I can see that strength training would be a good idea too, with a good fitness instructor...

    Finally a simple thing that helps my back when playing seated is a Dynarette cushion. It's way better than a footstool or a strap, and my back has got a bit better since...

    Exercise wise, I swim around 1km 3 times a week - I did take swimming lessons to make sure I had a good technique that wasn't casuing back probelms etc, something I would recommend. It's not a massive amount of exercise, TBH, but compared to what I was doing 5 years ago, it's a lot!

    It is great though - I have been more gentle with myself than I should, perhaps, but the aim was not to 'get into shape' - more to have something sustainable in my life exercise related - just increasing the amount I do a little bit week on week. I would be the last to say I am in great shape, but I have much more energy, better concentration and fitness because of this, and I am keen to do more.

    I'm also considering practicing standing only. It turns out that people who work on their feet are in better shape than people who work a sedentary job and go to the gym a few times every week - the continuous small lifestyle changes are the ones that really stick as I understand it.
    I've studied the Alexander Technique - I've practised it for over thirty years - and I've found it works for managing chronic problems related to poor body use and habits.

    What I most like about Alexander Technique is that it helped me develop the awareness needed to learn tai chi, which works preventive wonders for health (and particularly benefits older people).

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    I've studied the Alexander Technique - I've practised it for over thirty years - and I've found it works for managing chronic problems related to poor body use and habits.

    What I most like about Alexander Technique is that it helped me develop the awareness needed to learn tai chi, which works preventive wonders for health (and particularly benefits older people).
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!
    I've been learning TI Swimming for a few years


    Really helped my back.

  22. #71
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Incidentally the swimming lessons I took are based on Alexander. My teacher is currently researching Alexander with special relevance to guitar (he is himself a guitarist as well as an AT practitioner) in order to move towards some sort of course for guitarists - I should give him a shout and see how he's getting on with it!
    I stumbled into the Alexander Technique looking for a solution to back pain, but I kept up weekly private lessons for years. I used to think of them as a holiday.

    I'm in my late 50s, and I find what works best for me is a healthy lifestyle (with the right diet and the right exercise) alongside regular conventional medical checks. (I see my doctor, who's a huge jazz fan, as a trusted advisor who helps me manage my health.)

    What's ironic is that I'm in the heart of the city, yet the pace of life here is blissfully slow. And I get to practise tai chi with a private teacher in a quiet little square near the cathedral.

    I've attended a few Alexander Technique workshops for musicians, which were enjoyable and useful at the time.

    But the Alexander Technique is meant to be applied to all physical activity; it's more about poise than posture, and once you know the technique you can apply it to any activity you wish ("teach a man to fish etc."). It's about mechanical advantage.

    Tai chi is essential to me now and, like the Alexander Technique (and I don't think it's coincidental), it involves 'non-doing' which in turn requires a particular quality of awareness of body use that helps when it comes to changing habits. (There is a movement in the form that's called Play Guitar.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-10-2015 at 11:27 AM.

  23. #72
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    I've been learning TI Swimming for a few years


    Really helped my back.
    Beautiful.

  24. #73
    destinytot Guest
    It's a bold claim, and I can't substantiate it, but I believe that bodywork enhances intonation.

    (I can say that my daughter self-corrects her pitch to a fine degree of accuracy, and I believe it to be a function of confidence and expectation - her own and mine, and not of any proprietary method.)
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-10-2015 at 02:12 PM.

  25. #74
    no problem, I don't care. Just saying, there is more on that thread. I have made this my thread, so whatever comes up, I am fine with. I am even okay with disagreements and different ear training methods. However, I will shoot down any belittling or ego tripping on this thread. Ain't nobody got time for that childish shite. I may have to contact the mod to make sure a certain someone doesn't toxify my thread here with his ego. This is kinda my thread, but I want it to be a thread for everyone who is hip to ear training to talk freely. But those points about ego and belittling are my non-negotiable. I deal with teenagers who are learning to be adults on a daily basis. I expect adults to be better at conducting themselves. Not mentioning names, just saying
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-10-2015 at 02:15 PM.

  26. #75
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    no problem, I don't care. Just saying, there is more on that thread. I have made this my thread, so whatever comes up, I am fine with. I am even okay with disagreements and different ear training methods. However, I will shoot down any belittling or ego tripping on this thread. Ain't nobody got time for that childish shite. I may have to contact the mod to make sure a certain someone doesn't toxify my thread here with his ego. Not mentioning names, just saying
    I think you should mention names - deal with it or drop it.

  27. #76
    From the source:



    Next time I see Bruce, I will ask him if he can contribute some posts so you can hear his ruminations in person

    I will try, promise

    Giant Steps in B major tonality is coming soon.





    I hope the idea of Bruce as a Shaman is better understood. Either a shaman or a mad scientist of all things music.

    He doesn't consider himself a jazz musician. That is too small a label for him. He just considers himself a MUSICIAN





    I leave you all to evaluate Bruce's validity. Don't take my word for it **cue Reading Rainbow theme**

  28. #77
    destinytot Guest
    Bruce Arnold on the type of ear training he teaches (@8:37 of interview video): "Most schools teach interval training. I teach a system that's based on learning all twelve pitches against a key centre."

  29. #78


    Thile explains the whole notion of genre and approach very well.

  30. #79

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    Update: I contacted Bruce thanks Alex, he got back to me and prescribed me some exercises based on what I told him, seems like a great guy.

  31. #80
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-12-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  32. #81

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    Hey Alex, thanks for the giant steps pod cast, I'll have a listen.

    Bruce gave me these exercises.

    With the rhythm book, and the metrodrone he's getting me to do five pages a day singing the tonesI find tough against a drone with the rhythms in the book.

    He's also getting me to great playlists from the contextual ear book in my MP3 player. For example I'll have a playlist for root notes one for 3rds one for 5ths one for 7ths (both major and minor)

    This is helping so much so I'm practicing singing them as many times a day as I can muster.

    I tried the singing Aug 4 today along with the rhythm ex 1 with a C bass drone at 190 bpm, this stuff is WORKING!
    Last edited by 55bar; 10-12-2015 at 05:16 PM.

  33. #82
    As Kermit the Frog would say...

    YEEEEY


  34. #83

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    Just listened to the Giant Steps podcast. Interesting & thought provoking... :-)

  35. #84

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    Hey Alex, I should pipe in and let you know I've been following this thread. I took a calculated risk and bought Ear Training One Note Advanced plus the C Major and Minor Degrees a few days ago, have been working with it on a daily basis and tracking my answers so I can identify my problem notes. This morning I got an 80% result so I think I chose the right entry point. I'm really enjoying working with this material and excited about the results. Thanks for sharing this information and your experiences.

  36. #85
    Awesome! Make sure that you buy the Contextual Ear Training Course:

    Contextual ear training for musicians book with audioMuse EEK

    It's important that you are able to create these pitches on your own

    Also, buy the Key Note Recognition Course:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    Get the voice edition

    Also, PM me for Bruce's email. Go to the source. Like I said, Bruce is a mad scientist, shaman, and musicianship doctor all rolled up in one person.

    Glad you are enjoying this thread, austin! Getting 80% on the one-note advanced is no joke. Make sure your response time is quick and without any crutches.

    --Erez (I spelt my middle name wrong)

  37. #86
    Short post...

    Wait, do I ever make a short post?

    Many of us talk about improvised lines, solos, whatever.

    How about improvised comping or chord solos?

    Let's add another level, improvised comping where you improvise chord voicings as well AND take old harmonic material and apply it to new situations...

    That's what I tried to do in my practical standards "You've Changed" post.

    I listened to Billie Holiday with strings because... well... who does that song more justice? Not even my main man LTD, Dexter does it with that same emotional conviction. I tried to get some of the strings harmony, especially the intro. Then I improvised harmony around the melody.

    How did I do this?

    Bruce Arnold's material and being a little bit ballsy.

    Stick with the material, you will soon see the light. Every day, little details about your melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you. Every day, little details about your favorite musician's melodic and harmonic choices will become clearer to you.

    For my next lesson, I might show Bruce this thread and get him to contribute. Hope he doesn't get upset that I am sharing these ideas here. I don't think I totally gave anything away for free that he sells with his courses. I'll play it by ear (all pun intended)

  38. #87
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    yey! What did he suggest? Everyone is gonna be a little different...

    Destiny, even though you have a lot of experience with ear training and solfege, you should email Bruce as well. He will pinpoint the areas you should work on so you don't waste any time. Bruce is a Shaman, mad scientist, and musicianship doctor all wrapped up in one person.

    PM me for his email Trust me, it will be worth it. But you have to give your ear training experience to the highest level of detail and also tell him where you are currently having trouble with the material that you bought. He is DEDICATED to this stuff, it's kinda scary how much effort and energy he's put into his music education
    I'm pretty experienced with ear training, yes. But I haven't got chromatic solfège syllables down pat, so in practice I sing "sharp e-le-ven..." Moreover, I distinguish between independent and interactive listening (practising the former for recognising sounds, the latter for communicating sounds).

    I think Bruce Arnold's approach - referencing all notes to a single pitch - is highly counter-intuitive, but I believe it develops abilities in both. Ear training is part of what helps you connect and communicate - yes, I will email Bruce Arnold. Ear training summer camp in Valencia, Spain, anyone?

    PS Only half joking - I'm organising my first language retreat, and I've found some great venues with excellent deals.
    Last edited by destinytot; 10-14-2015 at 03:59 AM. Reason: P

  39. #88

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    I have also developed a spreadsheet that feeds me random scale degrees which I have to sing.

    You can also use the One Note Beginner or Intermediate as a sight singing exercise - on my Mac the name of the track flashes up which obviously gives it away - but you can use this by attempting to sing the note and seeing if you get it right. Obviously you need to be able to hear octave displacements to do this.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-14-2015 at 07:28 AM.

  40. #89
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 02:18 AM.

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Yea, wtf, Apple? How do you get rid of that preview...

    Today was an odd day...

    In my 6 years of ear training, today was the first day that I did no ear training at all. I ear train even on vacations, on plane rides, while walking, and while driving...

    Hopefully that illustrates my devotion (obsession?) with ear training and musicianship.

    My girlfriend is getting fed up with my earbuds always being in... Not good on my part, no bueno

    I love ear training, but I love my girlfriend more... Dang life being unfair...

    I think I am gonna try less sessions and use more focus and specificity for each practice session. And sight singing. I gotta do more sight singing!
    I ear train in the shower too.

  42. #91
    Me too

    But I thought of this other point. Don't just ear train to get another session. Make each session intention.

    For instance, for me, I got out of the habit of prehearing for the Contextual Ear Training. That is no bueno at all! Whenever you sing anything, you MUST prehear the pitches. So I am stricter with myself in terms of singing pitches and prehearing.

    Bruce calls this next concept mental fatigue. You have to become aware of your own learning process. There comes a time in every practice session, ear training or not, where the mind stops absorbing and grows numb. Do NOT practice beyond this point. You will be wasting time because nothing will stick, and you will ingrain mistakes instead of the correct material. It's better to practice in short bursts than too practice in one long session.

    Ask orri about how this relates to strength training
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 07:40 AM.

  43. #92

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    Ah, the shower - ear training nirvana. Everyone likes to sing in the shower so I guess it follows. In general what I like to do is think of a song and solfege it up, turning it over in my mind, singing it. Then when I get out of the shower I play it on the guitar and piano! Usually I've been checking through it for about 5 minutes or so (long shower :-)) so I have it fixed and ready to go, and right first time!

    I'm not at the point where it's automatic or intuitive (yet) but it is still a lot faster than picking up a guitar and working it out that way.

    It's also good to do it when not having a shower perhaps? ;-) But the shower is great because it is a private space where you can't get distracted by the guitar.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 11:10 AM.

  44. #93
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    Last edited by Irez87; 10-17-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Or in the car... but if you are practicing solfege and prehearing...

    I do my best ear training in the car... but the reasoning is INCREDIBLY stupid

    Here it is:

    I ear train while driving on the highway, small roads, stop and go, downtown driving. IE, risky driving. If I make a mistake... hopefully it's just me that gets hurt or killed...

    I could never live with myself if I hurt or killed another human being, even my worst enemy. My guilt is way way way to strong for that. I can't even watch videos of real people dying, it resonates a part of my body and causes pain... That's for another conversation.

    Why... why the hell would I ear train with extreme focus while driving.

    Well, and here is the stupidity, I am forcing myself to engage in my anxiety. I still get stage fright, and I perform a lot more than ever. So the scare of driving and focusing on the road is a parallel that I make to stage fright. I want to make sure my own ear training mechanisms function under performance pressure. Literally do or die... Kinda nuts to a point, but I'm an eccentric to say the least.

    For me, playing music is part of living and breathing. So is being a dedicated boyfriend (and more, I hope. Shit these traditions are expensive ) a dedicated teacher, and a dedicated learner. So I take the risk for each part of my life. I can be... extreme at times. Meh, I enjoy them all at the end

    DON'T DO SOLFEGE AND DRIVE sounds corny, but there is a lot of thought process that is required and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else's life. Just my own. Dig?
    You are quite bonkers. :-)

  46. #95
    I gotta watch my sleep habits... not good for me...

    Anyway... a question came up by a member I respect on the forum, so I want to use this space to address his question. Christian, I hope you don't mind.

    Honest question (that is one I haven't decided I know the answer to!) do you think by training to improvise by ear slowly (ala Warne Marsh) it is possible to learn to improvise at fast tempos? Or do you see fast tempos/double time as a totally different discipline?

    I need (dang font messing up again...) to get Bruce on this forum... but I dunno if he would like me sharing these ideas here. He might, I'm not giving away anything from his courses.

    Anyway... he explained to me as follows. At bright tempos, like 300bpm, you hear melodic and harmonic material differently than when you play at 120bpm. Try singing through a blues, Chris, I know you can manage that quite well. At the faster tempo, the illusion of "modulations" (just saying that to have a common language, I believe they are tonicizations) disappears and you are left with the key center.

    Here is my explanation:

    Think of it as looking at the car window at a slow speed, and continuing to look at the window as your friend speeds down the high way like a bat out of hell. At the slower speed, you can pick out details on the side of the road. Buildings, the colors of the trees in the fall, and street lamps. Let's call all of those details the chord changes and specific voicings and colors in the harmony.

    Still with me?

    Now look out that same window at a fast speed, everything becomes a blur. You can't make out the details of a building, you can't make out the beautiful trees. Everything blends together...

    Wait, so am I saying that all sound blends together?

    Nope.

    Look up at the sky, look at the clouds. Lets call the clouds the macro harmony of the tune. They are above the details on the ground. Due to the odd phenomenon of our own optics, the clouds look almost stationary. That, my friend, is what you hear at faster tempos.

    You have to be super conscious of phrasing at this point, to bring out the detail in speeding background. Think of it as forcing your eyes to track an object looking out the side window. This can be paralleled to internalizing the sound of tempos (yes, tempo has a sound) so that you can force your ear to track the details of the chord changes in the background.

    Chris and others on this thread, I won't waste my time posting these thought out metaphors anywhere else on the forum because I will get mocked by other members. The long and short is that they operate under the illusion that music is a purely physical and mental endeavor. Ear training is mythos to them. That's fine, but that's not how I operate.

    There is more to ear training quickly, Chris I would recommend the following courses to you, but please email bruce first.

    Here is the sequence:

    http://muse-eek.com/melodic-ear-trai...ok-with-audio/

    Melodic ear training really tests your skill to hear each note against a key. These notes are played faster and faster. Start with two notes and piano. The task is to hear each note as a distinct entity.

    Get this as well:

    Key Note Recognition Ear Training - Muse EEKMuse EEK

    That will help your ear "see" the clouds.

    Then, treat yourself to some harmony. This is currently how I ear train modulation, and harmony:

    Three note ear training for musicians audioMuse EEK

    I can't find the two note course. Bruce has a brilliant mind, and he has been adding to the library over and over since I first started with him. He is a very brilliant man, but he's gotta slow down

    PM me for his personal email, for chrissakes, Christian!

  47. #96
    At faster tempos, you hear in chunks of sound instead of individual pitches. Also, you hear the harmonic implication, rhythm, and shape all simultaneously (they must act in tandem during the act of performance improvisation).

    This is why you need to ear train with multiple methods, to get your ear used to the multitasking of digesting music and creating logic out of it. That's why I said that ear training is much more than Solfege (though that is an extremely important aspect of the process)

    Look up the courses, email Bruce. You owe it to yourself, Chris. You've got some beautiful talent there. You've climbed mountains near and wide to hone your craft. Let Bruce help you climb Everest so you can conquer K2 on your own. Dig?

  48. #97

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    You are very kind. I think that Bruce's material is very strong, and much in line what I have learned from others. I would certainly be interested in emailing him, so I will PM you. I have been checking out his one note course, and would be interested in seeing what we would recommend as the next step.

    Incidentally, I have been to Everest. The sight of Everest coming out of the clouds was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen. I hike a kilometer or two up to base camp (the Tibetan side.) At 5000m this is hardest 1.5 km's ever! The mountain was shrouded in cloud by the time we got to the base camp, but it cleared just at that moment. Incredible.

    It was as if the the Tibetan Mother Goddess, Chomolungma, was smiling at us.

    I realised then in that moment that I had no desire to conquer or summit something so otherworldly and beautiful. I could see the little yellow tents of the mountaineers at the advance base camp dwarfed by the immensity of it all. The terrain around everest is like another planet. No trees, little vegetation. Bare rock, like the moon. The air is half the pressure at sea level. The sky is a rich blue. When I tried to sleep at 5,000m my body was so frantic to pump blood around my body it felt like I was dying.

    One of the most wonderful experiences of my life. If you ever get the chance to visit the Himalyas, I would recommend it. It really is a different world.

    There are guys in Nepal - sherpas - who have been up and down Everest a dozen times or more... They only do it because of the Westerners, sometimes they are lucky, sometimes, as tragically this year, they (and the climbers) are not. It's a very strange concept, conquering a mountain. I think it is more that the mountain indulges you!
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:26 PM.

  49. #98
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Chomolungma, of course. I read Jon Krakauer in middle school and wrote a short story based on it, from the perspective of the Sherpas. I love hiking, but mountain climbing sounds to dangerous for me.

    The danger zone. Altitude sickness is no joke, my friend. Better to go back to base camp than to die pushing towards the summit. Mountain climbing seems to be the best teacher of ego. If you think you're better than nature, nature will soon remind ya that she wears the pants in the relationship

    Do you have any pictures? Can you post them to this thread? I'd love to see them. My dad is 70 and he wants to go there before he dies. He is a strong mother fucker, my dad. Bike rides 40-50 miles a day, goes kayaking, hiking, cross country skiing, and finds time to paint landscapes from the photos he takes of his adventures. A real BAMF. Me, I teach, and play music
    Amen to that.

    He must go! your dad sounds awesome!

    A surreal detail is that I was able to phone my dad from the base camp. Thanks to the Chinese obsession for infrastructure Tibet has excellent phone coverage - better than some bits of London haha. I can't get any reception in Hampstead, but at Everest, no problem!

    The trip was only up to base camp anyway (enough for me!)... If you climb you are out there for months, acclimatising and training...

    There's not much freedom to roam in Tibet (the Chinese are very controlling here) unlike Nepal. Me and the missus are seriously thinking about going to trek in Annapurna next spring. We love that part of the world so much.

    I will post some photos if you like... stand by...
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-17-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  51. #100

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    where tibetan mantra meets jazz..not that they were ever separated..hah

    the great don cherry



    cheers