The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1
    The subject of sight reading on guitar doesn't seem to fit into any existing category in this forum - for examples: technique, improvisation, songs, music theory. I have been playing guitar for 50 years, and I can sight read very well in the first two positions on the fretboard. (I took piano lessons and cello lessons when I was young, and taught myself to sight-read guitar when in high school). My mind is completely mapped to the fretboard in the first two positions. My fingers go there automatically. But the rest of the guitar neck is a vast desert of unknown notes. I do know the notes on the 1st, fifth, and sixth strings, because that's where the roots for the barre chords are which I learned as a kid! But the notes on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings are blank. Four different guitar teachers have tried to help me map the fretboard to the notes in my mind, using different techniques, but it never sticks. When reading sheet music, I want to be able to play the notes anywhere in the neck. Tab just distracts me. In any position, I can find the notes and work out a fingering, and with a lot of practice, I memorize the fingering. It almost appears that I am sight-reading. But what I really want to do is pick up a book of songs or exercises, and actually sight read the material in any position on the fretboard, and this has eluded me. Maybe I need to spend a whole year on position 3, a year on position 4, a year on position 5, etc. When I tried to learn the positions all at once, they just get all mixed up in my head. Can anybody recommend a book for just learning how to sight read all the positions on the neck? Or how they were able to learn it. Maybe other guitarists have the same problem sight-reading - or they aren't interested in learning it at all.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm not sure what the best method is, but I do know that with sight reading, the more you do the better it gets. If you just keep on deciphering loads of music in the higher positions, eventually it should start to build up a visual memory of where the notes are.

    I started on classical guitar and I remember having to puzzle out where all the higher notes were. At first it was painfully slow but eventually I got familiar with the fingerboard, or at least large chunks of it.

    But it can definitely be a hard slog, you must really stick at it. Try and read some music every day, maybe half an hour.

    There may be some mileage in doing exercises, e.g. pick a note and then locate it and play it in every octave and at every fret where it occurs. There are only 12 notes after all! Seriously though, if I think of any note at random, such as B flat, I can usually see a mental picture of everywhere it sits on the fingerboard. It must be possible to build this kind of knowledge up systematically if you work on it a little every day.

  4. #3

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    I used this book, which largely concentrates on fifth position, especially at first. That might be a good antidote for you.

    http://amzn.com/0793581885

    I've been using it for several (6?) months, and I've seen quite an improvement.

  5. #4

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    This may sound disingenuous but simply playing Segovia's edition of the Major and Minor Diatonic Scales would do wonders for anyone who is not comfortable reading the notation in the upper fret positions. The scales in question generally go up to the fifteenth fret or so with some of the keys. That is generally sufficient for most 'sight' reading situations.

    Of course, this does not provide the musical harmonic context for true 'sight' reading skill development. For that you should look at classical music pieces, especially contemporary solo guitar music.

  6. #5

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    While the Segovia scales do cover ALL the notes of the guitar's range to fret 19, they are not really laid out to aid in sight-reading.

    As an exercise and to learn where all the notes are available on the guitar, start with one note and find its locations, then write the proper notation, with ledger lines. You'll find, for instance, about 15 different Es, including harmonics, 8 or 9 Cs, depending on how many frets you have, etc. This, done one note a day, and extended to flats and sharps during that note's day, will take one week, and you will know where all the notes are on the guitar, and what they look like on paper.

    Then, find a clarinet book or a book of high note exercises, doesn't matter what instrument, and play 8 or 16 bars at random every day. Or write out a simple melody in different octaves, like Twinkle, and play it everywhere you can.

    This will be a good start. What's most important is to sight read as often as you can, every day if possible. Even good sight-readers slow down if they don't do it often.

    Also, don't just stick to positions, try Mick Goodrick's Unitar approach and play everything on one string, occupying what he calls the realm of the electric ice-skating rink. Good sight-reading means being independent of positions or having them entirely mastered, as one would by Volume 3 of the Modern Method by Leavitt. Use a metronome as well, even at its slowest tempo, it forces you to make decisions.

  7. #6

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    I'm glad to hear non positions position. I've never paid any attention to positions which has been a blessing and a curse. But I've worked a lot out of clarinet and violin books.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    I'm glad to hear non positions position. I've never paid any attention to positions which has been a blessing and a curse. But I've worked a lot out of clarinet and violin books.
    +1 on the clarinet books. I went from Rubank, then on the Roger Filiberto's book of Guitar Position Studies. Both were great tools of teaching to read. Then finally, it all came together when I asked my most recent and last jazz guitar teacher about reading in position. He said, identify on the fret board, the lowest and the highest notes on the piece you want to read. Then, you play between those two points. Vague . . but the previous experiences I went though helped to bring it together.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    +1 on the clarinet books. I went from Rubank, then on the Roger Filiberto's book of Guitar Position Studies. Both were great tools of teaching to read. Then finally, it all came together when I asked my most recent and last jazz guitar teacher about reading in position. He said, identify on the fret board, the lowest and the highest notes on the piece you want to read. Then, you play between those two points. Vague . . but the previous experiences I went though helped to bring it together.
    That's what I was always told and how I've always done it, when I thought about it. Too often i just started reading and at some point got caught out of range. But the second or third time got it right.
    Last edited by henryrobinett; 08-12-2015 at 01:12 PM.

  10. #9

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    I find that the hardest part of reading are those notes above the fifteenth fret on the high E string. In fact, I like the use of the octave indication where the notes are written as an octave lower but with the understanding you are playing them above the twelfth fret.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    I find that the hardest part of reading are those notes above the fifteenth fret on the high E string.
    I don't venture up there very often. There's cobwebs and dust and stuff up there on my guitar.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I don't venture up there very often. There's cobwebs and dust and stuff up there on my guitar.
    Tommy Tedesco said that the money stops at the twelfth fret.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee
    Tommy Tedesco said that the money stops at the twelfth fret.
    You want above the 12th fret? It'll cost extra!

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    You want above the 12th fret? It'll cost extra!
    lolololol I could very easily imagin Tommy Tedesco saying that in a studio. He was quite a piece of work.

  15. #14

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    I highly recommend Tagliarino's 'fretboard workbook'. Be consistent, set aside 30 minutes a day.

    http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Fretboa...ett+Tagliarino

  16. #15

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    I suspect that a lot of guitar players who fool with jazz get a lot of their sight reading in on Real Book lead sheets. These can almost all be read as things to be played in first position. They will generally sound better in third position--doesn't everything on an archtop guitar?

    Just force yourself to play in third position. It's easy and it sounds good. Third and fourth positions are money areas on the guitar.

    Almost all of the stuff I sight read is show books for pit work in university musicals in the area. I have to play what's written and just get used to trying to be nimble. I used to be a filthy awful reader. You can't help but get better in this environment. Pride will force you to accomplish many things.

  17. #16

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    Hey Greentone, is pit work mostly comping?

  18. #17

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    edh,

    Actually, no. A "book," as they call it, like "1776," "Good," "Rocky Horror Show," etc., has full charts. Sometimes, I am hired to play upright bass--i.e., 1776. There, it is bring the bass, bow, and spectacles. Read, read, read. Good called for switching between tenor banjo and guitar. It is a play in which a concentration camp victim hears a 30s/40s era cabaret band playing in his head the entire time. The band is on stage the entire play. You play all charts as written. IIRC, there is one chart where the band slips into a bluesy situation where four to the bar comping by the guitarist is in order. Rocky Horror is a play that was written by a guitarist, actually. The book is pretty dense. It was originally staged in London's West End, where the original guitarist was Andy Summers--of the Police. You have to keep your spectacles on for that one.

    Pit work is actually a lot of fun. Plays like "Rent," "The Full Monty," "Oklahoma," and others are great fun to participate in. Do I wish that all musicals were jazz? You bet! Still, playing beats sitting at home binge watching "The Apprentice."

    Believe me, you can work up your chops as a reader doing this stuff. I was the WORST reader in the east when I started. I joined a church choir years ago. Having someone throw many new pieces of sheet music at you each week--treble and bass clef--forces your hand. I got much better at reading. Then, I jumped into the pool of people available for things like pit and orchestral work. Playing bass is a key entry point--there are many more bass calls than guitar calls. Once you get known, however, you will get called to "double"--mandolin, banjo, guitar, etc.

  19. #18
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    @Greentone
    I can't contribute anything, but I'd just like to say how much I'm enjoying your posts.

  20. #19

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    @Greentone, thanks for the info. It sounds very interesting...and challenging.

  21. #20

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    Mo Foster, the well known bass session player told a story at the workshop I attended. He had played for years as a session player after many more years in various bands. He was a great player even though he couldn't actually read - he'd busk everything as it sounded.

    Then he was in a big London recording studio with 50 orchestral players (yes he wasn't quite sure why he was hired as an electric bass). Well, the conducter stopped the orchestra playing and asked Mo to play bars 58 through to 72. Mo says he played what he thought would fit. The conductor says,"That's nothing much like what is written but it will be fine."

    50 pairs of eys swivel in his direction - Mo said he could feel they were all thinking "He can't read?! What is he doing here?" He said he was so embarrased and ashamed, he learnt to be good in three months. Surprising what you can achieve when hugely motivated!