The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    hey guys,

    Did all the readers here start out reading in open position then first position,then second position etc or did you just teach yourself to read?

    I can read fairly well in open position and first and second position but im having trouble when it comes to reading things that are written high on the ledger lines like a high C, 3 lines above the stage for example,did you go through all the positions till you could read things like that comfortably?

    I want to become a good reader cos i plan to go on the ships within the next year but im having trouble working out the most profficient way to get my reading up to speed! any advice is welcome!!!

    thanks

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Reading was always tough for me. At college one year they lowered my grade two levels because I choked at the jury and coudn't read some horn chart. and FYI, anything past 4 lines above (which are G and A) and I have to count how many to be sure.

    The way I improved my reading, notewise, was to take a small passage and find it on all the strings and in every position. Also I used a violin book of etudes in first position (1st pos violin) by Hans Sitt and played them in different positions. Some guys recommend clarinet books but I've been partial to violin books. Chords are a different matter. You just have to spend time with Joe Pass books or even the CM's on this site. Cover the tab part and have at it.

    For rhythm I used one of those ear training books that are used on the college level and spent time singing or clapping the rhythms. Kind of like that Indian method that John McLauglin always talks about where you sing the patterns.

    Even after all this I still consider my reading to be so-so. I'll bet most guitar players reading is so-so and that's because most of us started out without reading (unlike horn players)

  4. #3

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    Yeah, this is a big weakness in my playing also. Every book I have run across (Mel Bay, Hal Leonard, Alfred) teaches just first position. I need something that addresses more of the fretboard. Does Leavitt's book do this? Any suggestions?

    Paging Matt Warnock.

  5. #4

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    The guitar fingerboard mirrors itself all over.

    I would spend time transfering anything I know to every possible unison and octave location. First I would find fingerings that maintain the string group relations and then other possibilities. Building on what I knew and expanding it to the total fingerboard.

    When I practiced scales and arpegios all keys in one position (5 frets)
    my reading improved greatly without even practicing reading.

    The same was true when I practiced rhythm away from the instrument.
    I practiced all the common subdivisions.

    Two
    1
    2
    12

    Three
    1
    2
    3
    12
    13
    23
    123

    Four
    1
    2
    3
    4
    12
    13
    14
    23
    24
    34
    123
    124
    134
    234
    1234

    I also did divisions of 6 and 8.
    I sung them or tapped them and thought about the various ways that these sounds could be represented in notation.

    The main trick is to find your weakest links and then strengthen them.
    You stated that ledger line notes are a challenge. Knowing the fingerboard will take care of part of that but you need to have pitch recognition down as easily as you can read the posts on this site. Spend a few minutes each day naming ledger line notes from sheet music.
    (flute music is great for upper ledger lines)

    Here's a link to a Classical site with several ton of scores to keep you busy
    icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer.php

    JohnW400 suggestions are all really good.
    Guitar is a challenging reading instrument but that said on the bandstand we can either play the music or not.
    Best of luck

  6. #5

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    this is one of those situations in which practice makes perfect.

    it's also all about fretboard knowledge. if you can't sight read out of first position, it only partially has to do with your sightreading skills...it also has to do with fretboard knowledge.

    my students HATE when we do fretboard games. (thinly disguised drills, really) -------but they know the fretboard.

    for me personally, i always first play a melody around the 5th-9th frets...that's where i'm most comfortable...

  7. #6

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    Paul! great to see you here. I couldn't take another argument about the politics of building guitars in china, so i signed off of that other forum. I think you'll dig it here.

  8. #7

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    first mechanism...

    first 4 frets....4 fingers...1-2-3-4.....on first string....4-3-2-1....same string

    do all six strings this way....first four frets only...

    If you look elesewhaer on this forum (you should read every post) you will find I posted the 24 vaiations of the four fingers to be played on the first four frets to start...

    Next frets 1-2-3-4 fingers 1-2-3-4....frets 5-6-7-8 fingers 1-2-3-4....frets 9-10-11-12 fingers 1-2-3-4..do you see it...up and down all 6 strings

    time on the instrument...pierrre

  9. #8

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    thanks so much guys for the great advice!

    reading rhythms is my strongest point i think,its just getting to the notes that are hard to read in time i think,also this depends on how hard the music is obviously!

    One thing ive done for a while now is listen to my ipod or stereo or whatever and pick a few tunes with some great riffs or horn sections and try and write out the rhythm to them,for example just this morning i wrote out the rhythm that the horn section plays in the last chorus's from all night long by lional richie!

    its great cos you dont need your guitar with you and if you want to challenge yourself you can try and notate the melody as well!

    this may help others out!

  10. #9

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    yo bako thats a great site with tons of stuff to read!thanks a bunch!

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleo20
    thanks so much guys for the great advice!

    reading rhythms is my strongest point i think,its just getting to the notes that are hard to read in time i think,also this depends on how hard the music is obviously!
    I am just the opposite. I can read the notes fine, and have a pretty solid fretboard knowledge. My weakness is the rhythms/time. I just ordered David Oakes' book, as it was suggested to really focus on the time thing, and unlike Mel Bay/Hal Leonard/Alfred, it starts you off reading from the 5th fret. Here's a link if interested.

    Amazon.com: Music Reading for Guitar (The Complete Method): David Oakes: Books

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by derek
    I am just the opposite. I can read the notes fine, and have a pretty solid fretboard knowledge. My weakness is the rhythms/time. I just ordered David Oakes' book, as it was suggested to really focus on the time thing, and unlike Mel Bay/Hal Leonard/Alfred, it starts you off reading from the 5th fret. Here's a link if interested.

    Amazon.com: Music Reading for Guitar (The Complete Method): David Oakes: Books

    A metronome is your best friend then. You should try to write the beats down and play them according to the metronome.

  13. #12

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    By the way I saw some talk about high above the bar notation.
    It's annoying when they notate like that really, a lot of people notate those an octave lower and indicate you have to play them an octave higher.

  14. #13

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    For me it's I CAN read the notation, and I'm working on the fretboard knowledge, so I don't have to think all the time...
    But the problem is when there are signs like b or # at the beginning of the line, and to remember that throughout, I guess it's just work and learn which keys take this or that, and be prepared for changes of key in the tune so you don't continue playing flats and sharps where there should be none.
    I guess I've forgotten too much from my old trumpet days, I thought it'd be no worry no sorry to get it all back, but it's been a very long time since then, and it's like starting from scratch again...
    Peace
    Skei (the not too bright one)

  15. #14

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    Joe,

    That octave trick is more common in guitar music. Once you start reading violin or flute charts, well, Then it's not quite as common. I agree with you though. Much easier to read though with the 8va sign.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbeantheconqueror
    A metronome is your best friend then. You should try to write the beats down and play them according to the metronome.
    Yeah, metronome, sure. It is seeing the various notes, and getting the count correct for each. After this thread, I decided to devote 15 minutes 4 mornings per week to it. Hopefully it will get better with some attention, because it wasn't getting any better with me not working on it.
    Last edited by derek; 02-27-2009 at 02:38 PM.

  17. #16

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    I think it's pointless to use a "method" for practicing sight-reading. As long as you know the instrument, just grab any music you feel like and put on a slow metronome and go at it. It gets easier.
    Granted, I don't work on as much as I should, but whenever I have a particular time where I need to read a lot, whether it be a gig or what not, something that lasts for a couple weeks, then by the time I'm done I'm a super beast. Then I forget about it...alas...
    I've found that rhythm is the hardest thing for me to sightread. So, when I do practice it, I practice a Bach Invention because of their relatively simple rhythms, and then do a jazz standard, then a Bird head, and then a Bird solo.
    I've also found that the morning is a good time. Derek's right in practicing it for a short time a few days a week in the morning. Your mind is much more receptive to things like that in the early hours. And it doesn't take long...too much and your mind starts wandering, so waking up 15 minutes early is a good idea.
    Smitty

  18. #17

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    awesome cheers dude!

    how long does it take before you can call yourself a reader?

  19. #18

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    will this help...

    Mel Bays Complete Method of Guitar Technique by Sal Salvador

    great book...yea I went through it...couple years ago..

    Sal Salvador had a few books as I recall...check the Mel Bay catalog...they will send you one for free or you can download it when you are at the wesbsite...

    time on the instrument is time well spent...pierre

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW400
    Joe,

    That octave trick is more common in guitar music. Once you start reading violin or flute charts, well, Then it's not quite as common. I agree with you though. Much easier to read though with the 8va sign.
    I know, but this is afterall a guitar forum :P

  21. #20

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    I have been playing for many years, but have only recently started reading. My opportunity came when I joined a jazz band lab locally. Its just a pianist, a bunch of horn players and me, and none of them knows anything about the guitar. The instructor (a sax player) gave me a book of music and told me to read it. The book contained the 12 major scales. I could play them by pattern once I located a root note and, of course, the pattern repeated itself chromatically, so I could play like I knew what I was doing. So the instructor would stop me and ask me to play a particular note in one of the scales. Of course I couldn't do it if I hadn't started at the root note. The he would require me to say the name of each note and then play the note afterward. Currently, that is how I am practicing and the improvement is amazing.

    Then of course in that environment, I do not just play the horn parts but also have to comp chords. That required me to locate the scales close to the chord positions I wanted to use. Now I am discovering the correlation between the scale and the chord played in the same location. Sometimes they arent exacltly co-located, but when I go to play a new line of music that I have never played before, I find that it is much easier having forced myself to learn all of the notes of all of the scales. I still get lost, but I am improving rapidly because once I see how the scale relates physically on the neck to the corresponding scale, I understand how to play the notes written on the page. It is a pretty tedious process, but it seems to be working.

  22. #21

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    reading is what we all do...we locate the note on the staff and corresponding fret on the fingerboard and sound it..then the next note and so on the is reading..

    sight reading takes more time..the ability to read a piece of music on "sight" and play well executed if not to perfection...keep at it man...read all you can..

    time on rhe instrument..pierre

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty
    I think it's pointless to use a "method" for practicing sight-reading. As long as you know the instrument, just grab any music you feel like and put on a slow metronome and go at it. It gets easier.
    Granted, I don't work on as much as I should, but whenever I have a particular time where I need to read a lot, whether it be a gig or what not, something that lasts for a couple weeks, then by the time I'm done I'm a super beast. Then I forget about it...alas...
    I've found that rhythm is the hardest thing for me to sightread. So, when I do practice it, I practice a Bach Invention because of their relatively simple rhythms, and then do a jazz standard, then a Bird head, and then a Bird solo.
    The rhythm is the hardest thing for me too. I used to think the same about reading methods being pointless, when I have like 12 versions of Real Books to read thru.

    However, David Oakes in his method talks about intentionally NOT using melodic exercises, because we tend to predict the upcoming notes, and not focus as much on the notation. I think he has a point.

    Jody Fisher always told me to hit garage sales and get clarinet, flute, sax, violin, etc., books dirt cheap, and make a stack. Read thru with no regard to melody, and when you finish with one, put it on the bottom of the stack. When you get to that particular book again, turn it upside down and use it again.