Harvard Professor teaches Perfect Pitch using seizure medication

**Klatu** · 01-07-2014, 02:14 PM

Check out this article. It provides a glimmer of hope to those of us who weren't molded into prodigies at age 7.

This pill could give your brain the learning powers of a 7-year-old

**Jabberwocky** · 01-07-2014, 03:18 PM

Check out the comments to this article: http://www.npr.org/2014/01/04/259552...sc=ipad&f=1001 . Shed some light on the poor quality of this "research". Modern science is turning into a parlour of tricks. Anything for news copy? "Man eats dog" is not news. "Dog eats man" is news.

**larry graves** · 01-07-2014, 03:42 PM

Doe's having perfect pitch help you play ( improvise ) better?...If it doesn't, what use is!..It could more of a hindrance to our style of music ..Jazz. How do you know you have it? I know this sounds naïve, but I've been playing jazz since the sixties and never come across it!.......

**Klatu** · 01-07-2014, 03:47 PM

How many comments should I read? Could you please post something here that discredits the article because I didn't come across anything regarding blatant investigative malfeasance.

Why would you not consider this to be news?

**Klatu** · 01-07-2014, 03:54 PM

By the way, I didn't interpret the article as being about perfect pitch; rather, about returning the mind to its youthful plasticity and allowing for a greater learning capacity. If I were to gain this ability, I probably wouldn't use it to gain perfect pitch; I would instead work on music theory, relative pitch, math, and other academic interests of mine.

Mind you, I don't have a scientific background, so I would be hard pressed to determine whether the research is flawed. If you have the knowledge and have determined that the research is faulty, then I humbly defer to you.

Peace out,
Klatu

**Pukka-J** · 01-07-2014, 03:55 PM

Perfect pitch has nothing to do with musicality. The people I know who do have perfect pitch do indeed sometimes experience it as a hindrance. It certainly doesn't make them inherently better musicians.
Give me good relative pitch any day!

**Jabberwocky** · 01-07-2014, 04:05 PM

Read as many comments as I did.

I am talking about the comments in the NPR.Org link and NOT the execrable boneheaded ones in theweek.com .

"Perfect Pitch" is one of those terms which everybody thinks he understands but in reality doesn't, just as "learning a new language". What does "learning a new language" mean?

So, we throw these buzz-words around, nodding knowingly, but what it really means is not what we often think it means.

For example, what is the link between "having perfect pitch" and "having the ability to make music"? The two are wildy disparate and one does not lead to the other automatically. Having "perfect pitch" probably means learning to play the scales on the violin or cello tolerably but it is not going to imply that one is the second coming of Jascha Heifetz or Jacqueline Du Pre. So, "having perfect pitch" does not really mean anything.

I don't know what "having perfect pitch" means or of what use it is. Does it mean: Sing me 442Hz. Now sing me 443Hz. And being able to sing 442Hz and 443Hz on demand?

Does it mean being able to call a note out and letting the world know that it is exactly 2 cents flat or 1 cent sharp?

**hans halmackenreuter** · 01-07-2014, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Pukka-J

Perfect pitch has nothing to do with musicality. The people I know who do have perfect pitch do indeed sometimes experience it as a hindrance. It certainly doesn't make them inherently better musicians.
Give me good relative pitch any day!

in my opinion it's arrogant to say that this could be a hindrance to have perfect pitch. It think those peaple just say that because just a few people could really argue with that and that's what they like. it would be nice to include perfect pitch to my perception and the way i could experience music with this abiltilty. but it's possible to learn it and that's what i am doing. so far the a and the b flat is already a little bit handy and guess that hearing a note is like having the idea of that quality and not like recieving the perfect intonated pitch.

**Pukka-J** · 01-07-2014, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

in my opinion it's arrogant to say that this could be a hindrance to have perfect pitch. It think those peaple just say that because just a few people could really argue with that and that's what they like.

Erm.... No!? Not arrogant at all, just the opinion of many people who have perfect pitch I know/have known.

They almost invariably had more difficulty developing good relative pitch, which you need to identify intervals for instance.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 01-07-2014, 04:39 PM

ok, but this is something else. I thought you mean that it would be a hindrance in generel. I just know 4 people with perfect pitch and nobody of them have a problem with having perfect pitch, but they all have a very grounded personality and it took me some time before i realized that they even have perfect pitch, because they don't really speak that often about that.

the problem with developing good relative pitch is something i heard before and just underlines that both abilties are different.

one could also say that it's hard for people with good relative pitch to hear perfect pitch, so in my humble opinion it's not valid to argue that way

**robertm2000** · 01-07-2014, 04:42 PM

I had a theory teacher in college who had perfect pitch. He said the worst thing about having it was not being able to "shut it off" if you needed to, like when practicing with other instrumentalists or singers. He had worked for years on getting so he could ignore it as needed.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 01-07-2014, 04:48 PM

but if I hear intervals, I also think about heir quality without bothering about it. and what could one bother if you practice with other musicians while you hear with perfect pitch?

**Jabberwocky** · 01-07-2014, 05:05 PM

"Perfect pitch" makes good copy, I guess. Closer reading of the article suggests that what the small study showed was the subjects seemingly getting better at pitch discrimination, not "perfect pitch" as the article alludes.

What does having Perfect Pitch mean? Does it mean calling out a C note when a C note is played? But what if that C note is based on a reference A pitch of A432 or A443? Would a person of Perfect Pitch go, "Yes, I hear a C note based on A432 or A443"?

Maybe there is no such thing as Perfect Pitch but good relative pitch memory. I would say that Perfect Pitch means hearing an X frequency and being able to sing or play the exact X frequency and reproduce it on demand thereafter. How many truly have that ability?

**Takemitsu** · 01-07-2014, 05:20 PM

Perfect pitch is the same thing as being able to tell what are the colors in a rainbow. Every shades betwen red and yellow are there but you can identify where is the yellow and whetre is the red. Perfect pitch people will tell you often stuff like "its between an F and an f sharp". For string players its a tremendous advantage especially in higher positions.
Also I have a xriend with perfect pitch than has an amazing relative ear as well. He can transpose and all.

**PTChristopher2** · 01-08-2014, 09:35 AM

>>> Perfect pitch is the same thing as being able to tell what are the colors in a rainbow.

Off the rails and off topic here,...

I understand your general point, but in fact human perception of pitch is absolutely nothing like human perception of color.

Both sound and color can be described as ranges of frequency or wavelength, but the way in which we sense and interpret them is extremely different.

If I play a 430 Hz note and a 450 Hz note at the same time you hear both notes (and it sounds bad to us).

If I shine a light of 500 nm and another of 600 nm at the same time, you see ~550 nm, and can not tell if you are seeing a single 550 nm light or a mix of lights that you interpret as 550 nm.

This is picking nits to some extent, but color perception is, in my opinion, a very poor analogy for sound perception.

Those who perceive colors extremely well can still not tell what the source(s) are of what they see as a single color, which may have no component of the perceived color in there at all.

This matters not at all when listening to a guitar, but try mixing colors and shooting a nice sunburst finish - then it is pretty important.

Chris

**Pukka-J** · 01-08-2014, 09:49 AM

And to further derail the subject: then of course there are synesthetics, some of whom percieve sounds as colours or vice versa

**PTChristopher2** · 01-08-2014, 09:56 AM

That sounds like a desaturated mid-green with the texture of a fairly smooth grapefruit.

**larry graves** · 01-08-2014, 10:02 AM

Are we talking "Rain man" here ? To organize sound and put a name to it is a man made device...Perhaps perfect pitch is an adaption of something else!..Just a thought.....L..

**Klatu** · 01-08-2014, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher2

That sounds like a desaturated mid-green with the texture of a fairly smooth grapefruit.

Would that be a citrus avocado?

**PTChristopher2** · 01-08-2014, 10:32 AM

>>>Would that be a citrus avocado?

Well, going with Pukka-J and synesthetics, a citrus avocado would sound like a B9(#5).

EDIT: No, wait, it would be a Bb9dim5 like you'd put near the end of the first verse when comping "One for My Baby". The B9(#5) has too much yellow for the citrus avocado.

>>> To organize sound and put a name to it is a man made device.

Larry,

Great stuff and many thanks.

Now can you get the idea across that this also holds for economics?

Chris

**larry graves** · 01-08-2014, 10:40 AM

I'll leave that to you Chris!....L..

**Takemitsu** · 01-08-2014, 05:06 PM

Off the rails and off topic here,...[/QUOTE]

Really? Off topic? I find it quite rude but maybe its how it works.

I understand your general point, but in fact human perception of pitch is absolutely nothing like human perception of color.

The analogy is the most used in the case of perfect pitch. And in therms of PERCEPTION could they have PERCEPTION in common? Since there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN COMMON between those 2 concepts.

[/QUOTE]
If I play a 430 Hz note and a 450 Hz note at the same time you hear both notes (and it sounds bad to us).[/QUOTE]

I never talked about mixing shades I talked about about a precise shade of color that would be in between what a kid would call lets say blue and green. If you insist on numbers that would mean in between 430 and 450 =440

If I shine a light of 500 nm and another of 600 nm at the same time, you see ~550 nm, and can not tell if you are seeing a single 550 nm light or a mix of lights that you interpret as 550 nm.

I see you have great knowledge of the physics of light. I have great knowledge of music, a master in music from Yale. A wife with perfect pitch and a several friends with perfect pitch including a conductor who is leading a major us orchestra. I have talked with them about perfect pitch. This is just to beg to not assume that I am an idiot, thank you.

This is picking nits to some extent, but color perception is, in my opinion, a very poor analogy for sound perception.

again, this is the most used analogy in the case of perfect pitch. Google perfect pitch and color perception. Would I be the first I would actually be quite proud.

Also please forgive my below average english and inaptitude at formating quotes

**fep** · 01-08-2014, 05:32 PM

Absolute pitch is hard for me to understand as I don't have it.

But, I know those who have it, I've had fun testing them. It does exist.

And, of those that I have known, five come to mind, three of them are among the best musicians I know, the other two were teenagers/students.

There ears are so sharp, it seems they don't even have to learn tunes, they just hear them. You play something for them, they instantly know what it is, much more so than I've ever seen anyone do with strong relative pitch. I don't know how this skill could not help a musician.

Of those that are claiming absolute pitch does not help one as a musician; do any of you have absolute (aka perfect) pitch?

**PTChristopher2** · 01-08-2014, 05:46 PM

Hi Takemitsu,

Your English sounds fine to me.

Sorry to have knotted your knickers; it was not my intent.

I still do not think any analogy to light works, despite its widespread mis-use. (A fallacious appeal to popularity, I suppose.)

But what I think is hardly an important thing. So analogize away as you see fit of course.

>>> I have great knowledge of music, a master in music from Yale.

I have both Yale and Master brand padlocks. But I have lost the keys to some of them.

Chris

**Pukka-J** · 01-08-2014, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by fep

Of those that are claiming absolute pitch does not help one as a musician; do any of you have absolute (aka perfect) pitch?

No, I don't have perfect pitch myself, but as I wrote I knew a few who did and they themselves told me it was a hindrance. One violinist had great difficulty playing in a so called 'authentic' baroque orchestra because of the different pitch. (A was 338 hz or so).

At one period three of them were in my solfege class and couldn't sing relative notes. I mean, they could sing an A flat followed by a G all right, but not a flat six resolving to a perfect five in the key of C. Hope I make sense...

This was all classical music. I have no experience with perfect pitch in improvisation.

I did know a synesthesist who plays electronic music :-)
She wasn't to happy with that either, since no one would understand...