The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Hi All

    I am at the stage of my jazz guitar journey where I need to start transcribing. Until now, I've relied on tabs(yes I know it's not good) and lead sheets.

    I'm excited but also very weary because I have never attempted it before

    • Is using something like Transcribe! considered cheating?
    • What is the recommended process? Take a note, find it on the guitar and move onto the next note....etc


    PS - I've chosen Wes Montgomery's D-Natural Blues as my starting point.

    Thanks

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    IMO there is no such thing as cheating when it comes to transcribing, so whatever you gotta do to get the notes in your head is fair game.

    I don't know if there is a recommended process (probably many TBH), but what I do is load the tune into Audacity so I can easily loop sections. I'll then carefully listen to the whole tune a few times to get an overall idea of the melodic contour, ideas of the phrasing and whatnot etc., then start mentally breaking the tune down into sections. If I want to transcribe the whole thing I'll usually start from the beginning but I often just want to steal a few favorite lines, so in that case I'm not worried about any particular order.

    The actual process of getting the notes from the recording onto the guitar for me is to listen to shortish logical phrases (maybe up to 10 seconds of actual music but no more, usually only a couple of seconds), and use Audacity to select these phrases, then loop the section over and over until it's practically burned into my ears. Then it's a fairly simple matter of applying it to the guitar and playing it back, in time and articulation with the section of the recording. If the section is too fast or tricky chords or whatnot I'll use the "copy" feature of Audacity, then open a new file and paste that section and from there I can slow it down or chop it up further. Some say that's cheating, but as I said IMO there is no such thing!

    I hear great things about Transcribe! and The Amazing Slow Downer but Audacity suits my needs and it's free.

    Also, this comment is great! Well worth the read.

    EDIT: I almost forgot -- it's VERY important that your guitar is tuned to the recording (which is not necessarily A=440 Hz)!! Seems like a lot of recordings are off a bit, especially if you're trying to cop tunes from youtube (which seems to drop the pitch of a lot of uploaded videos), and trying to match the tuning between your guitar and the notes on the recording can be an exercise in frustration tolerance.
    Last edited by jckoto3; 10-31-2013 at 08:21 AM.

  4. #3
    Thanks

    "Then it's a fairly simple matter of applying it to the guitar"

    This is where I think my troubles will come in - I have no idea how to do this.
    Do I listen to a note, try and figure out where approximately on the guitar it would be and then fiddle around there or do I listen to a note, and try every one of the 12 notes until it's identical to the note I just listened to, or do I listen to a note, guesstimate which string it's played on and then play each note on that string.

    I'm guessing there's no exact science here and whatever works for you, works for you and might not be the best for the next person

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    do whatever you have to to get the notes.
    I always have to slow stuff down. for me I find the timing far more challenging than the notes themselves. it's hard work but very satisfying when you finish even if you can't play along at full tempo.

    wes is a good place to start. I also enjoyed doing miles' solo from so what so dont just stick to guitarists.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    I currently use no special software program to slow down fast tempos while preserving accurate pitch, such as Transcribe, but for years I used a Tascam CD Trainer device to slow the tempo in that manner until it broke. Looping ability is helpful. The point about transcribing is to accurately render in notation the performance of a particular piece of music, so reading and writing music or using notation software is very helpful. Bit of a learning curve initially.

    To decipher a musical phrase is one thing, and to reproduce that phrase on your instrument is another. You must know the fret board cold, and your technique must be solid. At a minimum it is helpful to know the diatonic major and minor scales. But hearing a phrase in your mind or reading the notes as notation and playing the phrase well is also ear development. You need to understand rhythm and harmony.

    But if I could equip myself with hardware and/ or software for the purpose of transcription, I would use a program like Transcribe in conjunction with my Sibelius software. Some of the DAW software like Apple Logic are reputed to have very good notation capabilities. I stress the importance of notation software because imo standard notation is the only serious way to use transcription effectively, including creating actual midi backup tracks for your transcription. Learning to use notation software is such a tool for improvement in musicianship.

    I find it increasingly effective to sit with a keyboard instrument like a digital piano or synth, guitar in hand, to work out phrases and melodies. Somehow I think using both instruments together improves one's skill with each in a synergistic fashion.

    One last thing - I think it's important to focus on certain goals with transcription and not get lost in trying to annotate every note of a song. You want to use it to work out technical things or special lead breaks or phrases to learn something about the musical style of the artist and composer. Selectively.


    Jay

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
    Thanks

    "Then it's a fairly simple matter of applying it to the guitar"

    This is where I think my troubles will come in - I have no idea how to do this.
    One note at a time if you have to... It's literally that simple Tedious at first for sure, but not complicated. Do the best that you can, skip parts that are too hard and come back later, and if you can't for the life of you properly hear certain notes then don't get too hung up on it. Get the general idea of the phrase, move on for now and come back later when your ear is a little more keen.

    Do I listen to a note, try and figure out where approximately on the guitar it would be and then fiddle around there or do I listen to a note, and try every one of the 12 notes until it's identical to the note I just listened to, or do I listen to a note, guesstimate which string it's played on and then play each note on that string.
    Any or all of those, if that's what it takes. Do what you gotta do, but just do it! I like to listen to a phrase until it's in my head and then work from there, but when I started it was often one note at a time.

    Don't think too hard about this until you have your guitar in your hand and you're actually in the process of transcribing. You'll learn best by sitting down and doing it, even if that means finding one note at a time. After a while things start to fall into place, but if you have to take a short snippet and play it on one string, than that's what you gotta do. Once you've done that you can take the same snippet and figure out a better way to mechanically play it on the guitar's fretboard. Ultimately you'll probably work out several different ways to play the same thing but that's a different discussion.

    The first thing is figuring out what the notes are, even if that means figuring out ONE note, then one more note, then one more after that... Then you can figure out a better way to lay those notes out on the guitar. If it takes you a week to figure out the notes to one little 4-bar lick, then it's still time well spent because you will have learned a lot in the process and next time it will be easier

    I'm guessing there's no exact science here and whatever works for you, works for you and might not be the best for the next person
    This is true, but we all start in basically the same place.Getting started is the hardest part, but after a while patterns start to emerge, your ear develops and you can sorta "see" where the sounds are, though not necessarily in the same location of the guitar's fretboard as someone else would. That takes time and practice.

    A lot of time and a lot of practice.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    If the question is deciding in what fret position to play a certain melodic phrase, that is largely the result of experience and taste. A melodic phrase can be voiced usually in a variety of fret positions on the guitar neck. I would let voice leading be my guide. I would add that study of chords such be focused on the song in hand and can be incorporated into scale work via harmonization.

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    I'm new to transcribing also, and am also working through that Wes tune. Great stuff. I've found it helpful to take each phrase and figure out what the notes are in relation to the chord. It helps me both understand and remember the language.

    I've found a number of articles about transcribing at the Jazz Advice website to be well worth reading.

    In no particular order:
    http://jazzadvice.com/transcribing-i...ed-you-astray/
    http://jazzadvice.com/before-you-tra...r-learn-tunes/
    http://jazzadvice.com/why-transcribi...n-you-nowhere/
    http://jazzadvice.com/how-transcribi...o-improvising/
    http://jazzadvice.com/transcribing-w...n-you-thought/

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    I would recommend transcribe just because it takes some of the tediousness out of it. You can just work on the exact area that you want to listen to not hunt and rewind constantly which is frustrating. If you can transcribe D Natural blues as your first transcription than more power to you. For me that would have been too much. I would transcribe the head and maybe look for some lines in it that you like and can extract - than at least your up and running and can play the tune.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    I've never been one for slower downers...I get the phrase to where I can sing it, then I learn it on the guitar...sometimes yeah, it's a long process...singing 1 second of music or so...but I'm a beleiver in "not more, but deeper understanding of less."

    Plus this cool stuff didn't exist when i was starting to learn, so therefore, my opinion is skewed.

  12. #11
    Thanks for the responses guys - I definitely have my work cut out for me.

    I'm at the point where I want to try and get an understanding of what the player was "thinking" when they came up with "that" line.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    I like slow down programs, personally, a Transcribe user. I never slow it down past 70%, but it's especially great for getting a fast line that is really hard to hear, especially with really legato articulation. It's also great for moving along faster, like, instead of starting your transcribing process on a really slow and easy tune, like a blues or something, you could start on something with more movement, like a recording of rhythm changes or something, which has more lines that you can apply to things. The whole point is you want to get good at listening to things in real time, so always push yourself if you feel it's too easy.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    I respect the others' opinions but I really do think you should use Amazing Slow Downer or better yet Transcribe. It's true that this technology did not exist when the old masters learned how to play, but they used record players and they were able to slow them down manually. It's not like they learned everything at full speed. I also try to avoid going below 70% unless something is really tricky.

    I highly recommend Transcribe. It's quite a bit better than ASD.

    But no matter what you use for technology, it is important to TRY as much as you can to avoid "fishing" for notes. It's way to easy to fall into that trap. Tony DiCaprio made that point to me even before our first lesson - it's possible to get "more adroit" at finding the notes without necessarily improving your ear if you just fish. You should really try to be able to identify the intervals. At least be able to sing the thing (e.g. the phrase) before trying to transcribe. It hurts more up front, but then you will really make gains. The other way you just kind of figure out where to put your fingers by trial and error - you learn less which will become painfully obvious to you as soon as you try to transpose to other keys (which is important).

    And obviously if you want to know what the player was "thinking", it will help if you know the underlying harmony. However, some people say to ignore the harmony and I don't totally disagree..but at first you should track the underlying harmony.

    Check out the website of Anton Schwartz. He has a great article on transcibing.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    I use Amazing SlowDowner for the iPad for transcribing melodies. Like the OP, I was intimidated by transcription, but mostly because I was looking to transcribe extremely complex tunes. I suggest starting with slower songs with easily singable melodies, I use sax and horn as the main instrument I focus on when transcribing. Remember-if you can sing it, you can play it! What I do is listen to a short 5 second phrase, sing it a few times, then find the corresponding pitches on my instrument, then repeat until I have the full melody memorized. It will take you along time at first, but you have to push on. Once you find that first note, it gets progressively easier from there.

  16. #15
    Thanks

    I think I may have been reaching a bit too far with using D-Natural Blues as my first attempt. I'm thinking of attempting In Your Own Sweet Way, also by Wes

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
    I think I may have been reaching a bit too far with using D-Natural Blues as my first attempt. I'm thinking of attempting In Your Own Sweet Way, also by Wes
    That is a pretty tough one, depending on your patience and experience. I'm proceeding, but it's slow for me.

    If you're interested, there is a very reliable transcription of the tune by Bert Ligon, a great jazz educator.
    http://in.music.sc.edu/ea/jazz/Trans...ons/DBLUES.pdf
    I've used it to check my work.

  18. #17
    Thanks for all the advice

    Since this is my first time transcribing, I've decided to start with something even simpler.
    I've started with Ronny Jordan's version of So What and I've made more progress than I thought I would.

    My main area of work at the moment is getting my ears to recognize whether one note is higher or lower or the same as the previous note. I don't know what this is called though..
    Last edited by JazzGuitar; 11-04-2013 at 02:09 AM.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Broyale
    Remember-if you can sing it, you can play it!.
    Can I substitute the singing for whistling?
    If I find that I'm not getting the notes exactly the way I want it with my voice, can I whistle it instead?

    Also, does humming and or scatting help?

    Thanks

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
    Can I substitute the singing for whistling?
    If I find that I'm not getting the notes exactly the way I want it with my voice, can I whistle it instead?
    Also, does humming and or scatting help?

    Thanks
    Preferably you should be singing. After awhile you will start to sing to pitch. This might take awhile depending on your natural abilities. The important thing to understand is that you gotta get the music in your ears. Sing the solos everyday . Listen, listen, sing, sing. Everything else will fall into place. Trust me.
    Last edited by smokinguit; 11-05-2013 at 07:40 PM.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
    Thanks for all the advice

    Since this is my first time transcribing, I've decided to start with something even simpler.
    I've started with Ronny Jordan's version of So What and I've made more progress than I thought I would.

    My main area of work at the moment is getting my ears to recognize whether one note is higher or lower or the same as the previous note. I don't know what this is called though..
    It may be called 'relative' pitch.

  22. #21
    Hi all

    Just an update on this.

    I've been taking songs with lyrics that I already know in my head. I've been *singing* a small piece, getting the intervals right and applied it to the guitar. The key might not always be right but the intervals are correct, it's then just a matter of getting the key right.


    Am I using the word interval correctly when I say that I am working on recognizing whether a note is higher or lower than the previous note?


    Thanks

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzGuitar
    Hi All

    I am at the stage of my jazz guitar journey where I need to start transcribing. Until now, I've relied on tabs(yes I know it's not good) and lead sheets.

    I'm excited but also very weary because I have never attempted it before

    • Is using something like Transcribe! considered cheating?
    • What is the recommended process? Take a note, find it on the guitar and move onto the next note....etc


    PS - I've chosen Wes Montgomery's D-Natural Blues as my starting point.

    Thanks

    -No it's not cheating, it makes the job easier and you still have to use your ears to do it

    -Singing the line first is a good habit, personally most of the times I just listen to the line and try to play it back on my guitar. After you gain some experience you ear will be able to pick up on some things that will make the whole process easier (recognizing arpeggios, chromaticisms or jazz motifs that are very common).

    As for your starting point, Wes uses chords and double stops quite a lot in his solos and these can be tricky to transcribe. But give it a try and if you're having trouble we'll be glad to help.

  24. #23
    Hi All

    Just an update on this

    I've been working on Wes Montgomery's D-Natural Blues. I haven't sat with it everyday but in total I've put in about 1 hour. I've got about 10 seconds into the solo.

    I don't know whether or not this is good, bad or normal.

    Thoughts?