How important to transcribe guitarists?

[pkirk]

Great story pkirk! Wow. That must've really been something.

I had the opportunity to have a fairly extensive conversation with him once. He is very shy and very soft spoken. It was hard to understand him, but because he spoke so softly and his ideas were deep. And he expressed himself opaquely.

I like Science Fiction. It is out there, but Ornette's playing is still diatonic and blues enfused.

Yeah, we're getting off topic, but I love ornette's music and what he did for jazz. I saw a movie recently about him with a lot of footage from the 1980s
(reviewed with clips here Shirley Clarke's "Ornette: Made in America" : The New Yorker)
which was pretty weird, it painted him a strange light, but there were some interesting scenes with him and his childhood buddies where his relaxed side comes through.

As far as "opaque" goes, david baker once told me he first met ornette when they were teenagers (some jazz workshop in NYC) and that ornette was that way even then!

[henryrobinett]

That's got to be a challenge.

Lol!

[teok]

Ok, a couple of opinions that learning guitar lines is very useful, a couple that it's counterproductive. There's never a single right answer in jazz, is there? Thanks to all for the insights. Very informative and helpful.

Ornette Coleman's playing, to me, is like the sound of saxophone crying. Just something about his phrasing and feel gives me the feeling that he must be a deeply sad or sensitive person. There's just this melancholy undertone to his notes even on the upbeat tunes that's sorrowful and beautiful. Just my interpretation. He's one of my faves.

[pkirk]

Ok, a couple of opinions that learning guitar lines is very useful, a couple that it's counterproductive. There's never a single right answer in jazz, is there? Thanks to all for the insights. Very informative and helpful.

I'll throw in my 2c. If you are a hobbyist or just starting out, your goal is probably to play gigs with other musicians at as high a level as you can. To that end, learning to use cliches (and in particular guitar cliches) will get you there faster than other methods.
Non-guitarists respond positively to someone who "sounds like jazz guitar sounds" on standards gigs. Playing with others is so critical a part of progressing in jazz that as soon as you can get into it the better off you are. Once you have the basics together you can start to assemble your "artistic" vision based on where you are.

For myself, When I hear a young player trying all kinds of advanced stuff without having decent control of the clichés of his instrument, I probably won't call him for gigs, unless I'm lucky enough to get a "art" gig for which what he is doing is what I want. Those gigs are very rare, for me in any case.

Of course, if, unlike me, you are a great player, none of this applies: your muse will lead you there.

[wizard3739]

I enjoy transcribing, sometimes to understand where the player was coming from, sometimes to learn a phrase or a particular type of sound, sometimes just to learn a melodic/harmonic concept and sometimes because I am always interested in the songs as interpreted by my favorite musicians. I probably spent more time transcribing guys like Chet Baker, Paul Desmond, Jim hall, Sonny Rollins, Bill Evans & Jimmy Raney than the newer sounds of today. I know I am mostly oriented toward songs with great melodies and lots of different chords, so I have spent a lot of time working with them. As a result, I prefer gigs based on music from the G.A.S. and that atmosphere is where I do most of my playing.

wiz