Sight Reading Jazz Guitar

[Vladan]

I have this one for some years, but can not say anything about it, because I do not remember if I've ever opened it after initial browsing at the bookstore.

[targuit]

Can't "judge a book by its cover", but why not crack it open?

[christianm77]

Trying to think of some different ways of working on my reading, other than just reading music. I like weird little games....

Sight reading games (3m each)

• Silent reading – try to imagine how the phrase will sound
• Rhythm only reading
• Rhythm and dynamics
• Sight singing - can focus on rhythm or pitch if both aren't secure
• Really fast – doesn’t matter how inaccurate, just don’t stop!
• Super slow and accurate
• Along 1/2/3 etc strings
• Sight transpose
• Read scale degrees not absolute pitches
• Memory – take a short amount of time to memorise 1/2/3 bars and then play it back unseen
• Dictation – transcribe melodies by ear

Any more for any more?

[bako]

a few more possibilities:

Read all notes as an equal value

Improvise new notes in the same rhythm

Improvise rhythm for same notes (within same measure structure)

Improvise notes in the same contour and rhythm

Reading within topographical limitations

Playing with physical restrictions for left or right hand or both

Quickly form analysis (sections, phrase structure, harmonic structure)

Play only 1st beat of each measure

Play only pickup notes to each measure

Play pickups and 1st beat of each measure

Visualize notation of any music in your head

Get on a challenging reading gig that you really want to keep

[targuit]

Not for nothing, but I just simply read every day! And given that I create my own arrangements, I read them rather that futz around with esoteric stuff. Once in a while I pull out my classical sheet music as well. Because I use Sibelius, I can conform that the rhythms I notate are in fact correct or in error. That is great practice in itself. You improve by reading and importantly writing notation in my book.

Not written yet, but....Right now, before I jump into my pile of medical records awaiting me to copy, I will revise my arrangement of Alfie to the level of a 'classical style' transcription, so I can more quickly record a solo instrumental version. I'm getting over the perception or guilt complex about "not improvising". I mean, I do in performance but why not use the notation if you hone your performance faster with it?

EDIT - Just finished revising the transcription into a true and complete final arrangement for solo guitar. Getting over the guilt complex very fast...

[targuit]

Christian - Got to tell you about a cool experience I had in college about reading or not.

I was walking one nice fall evening with a girlfriend around a chapel at my University where they had a beautiful pipe organ. My girlfriend was a pianist and a good musician. We walked into the chapel and up into the upper level of pews because we heard the powerful strains of Bach's Toccata and Fugue from the chapel. Turns out no was there but the organist who as it turns out already played semi pro with some serious musicians.

But the kicker is that he was blind. We were quiet so I don't think he ever knew anyone was there, but I felt pretty moved. I've always been a sucker for the Toccata and Fugue, and the fact that this guy was there in his black visionless space just exploring Bach's sonic universe touched me deeply. So often we take for granted these immensely wonderful gifts of good health. But this guy had committed it all to memory and developed his technique without the aid of reading sheet music, and it just resounded like a glorious hymn. A very moving and humbling moment.

[bako]

Jay,

I couldn't help but notice that once I started notating music to facilitate others playing my musical ideas,
my reading improved as a by product.

What I meant by "Visualize notation of any music in your head" was an act of mental transcription of any music that you are familiar with, no paper and pencil required. The goal is the same as described above.

[targuit]

Bako - I learned to read notation first in grade school choirs, then as a classical guitar student at eleven or twelve. I have read notation nearly every day of my life for the next fifty years and change. So I agree. The best way to improve reading skills is to read and actually notate music. One reason I love working with Sibelius. Simple example. If I transcribe a song for which I have no fake book lead sheet, I simply copy the lyrics and then transcribe by ear off a performance on Youtube. Then I create my own arrangements in Sibelius. The act of creating accurate notations of rhythms really improves your reading skills and the ability to visualize it mentally.

As you know, reading music notation is about imprinting and pattern recognition. One reason I get mildly annoyed when I hear people recommending learning to read clarinet notation or something. Fine if you are playing clarinet, but why in the world would one do that for guitar? Apart from Sors and Carcassi etudes initially, my reading skills really improved with playing Elizabethan lute music for guitar. Of course ultimately I was reading Bach's Partitas and contemporary works like Benjamin Britten's Nocturnal, Villa Lobos Choros and Preludes, even Hans Henze (most difficult of the three cited here).

Yet it took me a few years before I became comfortable reading bass clef and G clef on piano music. Till I realized it was just to think "up a third" on the bass clef. But the more you read and notate, the better. I can definitely visualize the music I hear as notation unless perhaps atonal music or Olivier Messiaen. Probably would find following a Charlie Parker uptempo piece very challenging as well if it was not functional harmony. Depends a bit on the complexity. Most ballads and standards, not a problem.

[targuit]

I would add that I rarely use pencil and paper sheet music much any more if the computer is available. When I wan to compose or transcribe, I go straight to Sibelius. And unlike some, I am not in the least nostalgic for the painstaking task of doing it by hand. I thank the inventors of Sibelius for making my life enormously better. Seriously. Best $60 I ever spent on G7 many years ago.

Just to be able to play in notation into the program via my Yamaha keyboard synth in real or step time is fabulous, though my version of Sibelius is so strict about time that I have to play very mechanistically in terms of time to get anything perfectly accurate. For the longest time I was frustrated because Sibelius kept notating in real time my playing as triplet feel, till I realized it was notating the 'swing'. One can alter the notation to be 'forgiving' with tempo and time, but that just makes it worse. So I input with no latitude in real time.

[christianm77]

Bako - I learned to read notation first in grade school choirs, then as a classical guitar student at eleven or twelve. I have read notation nearly every day of my life for the next fifty years and change. So I agree. The best way to improve reading skills is to read and actually notate music. One reason I love working with Sibelius. Simple example. If I transcribe a song for which I have no fake book lead sheet, I simply copy the lyrics and then transcribe by ear off a performance on Youtube. Then I create my own arrangements in Sibelius. The act of creating accurate notations of rhythms really improves your reading skills and the ability to visualize it mentally.

As you know, reading music notation is about imprinting and pattern recognition. One reason I get mildly annoyed when I hear people recommending learning to read clarinet notation or something. Fine if you are playing clarinet, but why in the world would one do that for guitar? Apart from Sors and Carcassi etudes initially, my reading skills really improved with playing Elizabethan lute music for guitar. Of course ultimately I was reading Bach's Partitas and contemporary works like Benjamin Britten's Nocturnal, Villa Lobos Choros and Preludes, even Hans Henze (most difficult of the three cited here).

Yet it took me a few years before I became comfortable reading bass clef and G clef on piano music. Till I realized it was just to think "up a third" on the bass clef. But the more you read and notate, the better. I can definitely visualize the music I hear as notation unless perhaps atonal music or Olivier Messiaen. Probably would find following a Charlie Parker uptempo piece very challenging as well if it was not functional harmony. Depends a bit on the complexity. Most ballads and standards, not a problem.

I always find reading jazz rhythms a challenge. I would say that's the biggest single challenge and Bellson is a pretty good solution in that it is getting better.

Notes wise most of the music I am asked to read is much easier than the classical stuff you mention. But rhythm wise it is usually a bit trickier, and obviously for bop and stuff it's just lines and lines of hard to play non guitaristic stuff with tricky rhythms. Sax players write a lot of the music, so you have to learn to read that BS.

I would be much happier sight reading John Dowland TBH maybe not Henze lol...

When I used to maul classical guitar insensible with my stupid hands, I used to find the pop/jazz oriented pieces were always the hardest in the repertoire for this reason. On the other hand I couldn't play Bach very well, but I could read it (except in drop D, yuck.)

(I do get a bit annoyed that things like the Jimmy Wyble book and the Masters of Plectrum Guitar book are in tab. It really annoys me because I want to work on my reading. I suppose I could tippex out the tab to stop me glancing at it.)

The joke is of course that back in the 16th/17th century guitarists and lutenists couldn't sight read either. Everything is tabs. Playing the lute is fun but it has done pretty much nothing for my musicianship haha... I really need to get onto continuo - that's the thing...

So guitarists, next someone jokes about your poor reading, you can point to tradition :-)

Now repeat after me - have you got tabs for that song?

BTW targuit - here is my group's take on a bit of Dowland

[bako]

One reason I get mildly annoyed when I hear people recommending learning to read clarinet notation or something. Fine if you are playing clarinet, but why in the world would one do that for guitar?

Clarinet has a rich literature of melodic etudes and pattern studies that matches guitar range if you ignore the Bb transposition. Guitar pedagogy has yet to establish such a substantial library of single note studies.

Coltrane was said to practice out of harp books. He got quite good at playing long cascading lines.

Reading polyphonic music addresses a different aspect of what a guitar is capable of. Reading multiple notes does make reading one note at a time easier but reading simple harmonies and rhythms doesn't help as much when reading more complex rhythms and note collections.

In my opinion, there is value in learning from the literature of instruments beyond the one we play,
Work with the material that best addresses the challenges you are working on.

[christianm77]

TBH if I can read everything in the Tedesco book accurately at tempo, I'd pretty confident about my reading for everyday jazz and pop stuff. It's a good book I think, and it's on kindle...

[pkirk]

Trying to think of some different ways of working on my reading, other than just reading music. I like weird little games....

Sight reading games (3m each)

• Silent reading – try to imagine how the phrase will sound
• Rhythm only reading
• Rhythm and dynamics
• Sight singing - can focus on rhythm or pitch if both aren't secure
• Really fast – doesn’t matter how inaccurate, just don’t stop!
• Super slow and accurate
• Along 1/2/3 etc strings
• Sight transpose
• Read scale degrees not absolute pitches
• Memory – take a short amount of time to memorise 1/2/3 bars and then play it back unseen
• Dictation – transcribe melodies by ear

Any more for any more?

One more is sight read in octaves. It helps to have reading material with a somewhat limited range. The idea is you can't stay in position, and hence have to learn your way around the neck.

[Reg]

All cool ideas... pkirk's octaves approach is great idea. I generally play octaves when sight reading standards and when I'm only instrument playing melody. I still push.... when you practice,

Break everything down... you need to have already gone through and understand all possibilities,

Rhythm.... know and be able to recognize all sub divisions. Learn and know the difference between ...+ 1 or 4 + etc...
One attack has 1 as the reference and the other has 4 as reference.

Until you can feel and recognize rhythms... always have beat or feel and pulse of beat be subdivided down to 8th note like, 1 + 2 + etc... feel and count like 8th notes. Basically reflect your down and up pick motion.

So if your sight reading 16th notes... it become like 1+2+ for one beat... which is usually counted (1 er + a or 1 e + a ).

I still count when in the studio even when I really don't need to... Always no mistakes. When sight reading at gigs... we still count between phrases when performing faster figures and phrases. Sometimes to help us phrase, sometimes for entertainment effect. Part of playing jazz can be like your hearing and experiencing the music for the first time or at least for the moment
just like the audience. Generally at smaller venues, it's almost like bringing the audience into the music...

And the same concept with melodic and chord figures... you need to recognize them. And that comes from either... playing a lifetime and you still probable won't really recognize all the figures.... OR take the time to know and understand melodic patterns... which are generally just horizontal harmony, with harmonic embellishments.

You see a melodic figure and know it's the IV7 chord from melodic Minor, an embellished arpeggio, or whatever.

Generally this doesn't come from just practicing sight reading, it comes from also having practicing and understanding harmony.

[lawson-stone]

I always had an "attitude" about reading music. When I was 9, my mother made me take piano lessons from an old crone named "Mrs. Lewis." Every time I made a mistake, she had this ruler that she would rap my hands with! I used the John Thompson book, Teaching Little Fingers to Play. I always imagined the sub-title must have been, "By breaking them one at a time!"

So when my mother left us, I decided to go back to the one musical instrument I knew would break her heart: the guitar, which I'd fooled around with all my life. She thought it was an instrument for morons and alcoholics, which now that I think about it...

Anyhow, after I learned guitar "seriously" one summer with Frederick Noad's Playing the Guitar, I realized it felt like Teaching Little Fingers to Play again, so I made a point of only playing by ear. Learned things like "Classical Gas" by ear, picking up the needle from the album, playing a few notes, etc. As a matter of attitude, I didn't look at a page of music from about the time I was 11 to the age of 19 or 20, when I won the role of guitarist in a musical performed at my college. They handed me this stack of charts... in the end, another guitarist was called in to handle the parts I couldn't do by ear or by just reading chords. Embarrassing.

So I decided really, Mrs. Lewis is dead and my mom left, so what's the harm going back to reading music? I got so interested in it, that I actually feel guilty when I'm learning a solo from notation and have to listen to the recording to get the time exactly right. I think I still view these as separate, parallel types of access to the music, and I don't integrate them very well just yet.

Jazz being what it is, I am realizing I need to merge these two streams of musical attitudes if I'm to keep progressing.

I don't know why I shared that story.

[targuit]

You know why, Lawson! 'Cause it's truth. Which has its own aura of resonance. I like that. We all have our own story to tell. They say that one of the areas of the brain activated during improvisation under MRI (special non-metallic keybord) is the area activated when "telling your story".

The subject of this thread is 'sight-reading' - but sometimes threads evolve. We each have personal stories to tell. That is a beautiful thing - reminds us how our passions bind us together.

[targuit]

Talk about reading notation. This afternoon I recorded ATTYA as a "one take" vocal / guitar track. But I previously recorded my piano debut track on my Yamaha keyboard synth. I recorded one take to my Tascam DR-05 digital recorder the the mic on the keyboard, singing and playing guitar over the recorded piano track. Starting a thread called Anatomy of a recording. This was a bizarre experience. Related to reading notation? Yes at least in one sense - I had a hell of a time just reading the notation, not to mention the lyrics. Gettin' old .... it's a beach.