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FWIW, I spent quite few years using tab as a learning/preservation tool (see earlier posts on folk-fingerpicking style), but I never did, as Chris puts it, audiate from tab. It was strictly a means of indicating where to put the fingers--and the best tab charts also include chord diagrams/frames that show whole-hand grips. And to this day, I, um, grasp chord frames almost as quickly as I can read hands. (At least, when I'm playing with guitarists who don't use idiosyncratic grips, like the big-paws guys who fret adjacent strings with one finger instead of two, the way Buddha intended.)
In an ideal world, I would be able to at least work out a tune from standard notation. But in a really ideal world, my parents would have owned a piano.
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03-30-2023 11:32 AM
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Just get mel bay book one, 5 minutes a day and get on with it. If most of you pooled all the time you spent defending your ignorance of notation you'd know how to read already.
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I am not 'ignorant of notation' ( such arrogance ) but in the intervening years since I first learned to read when playing clarinet and a little tenor have had little call for it when playing rock and blues etc. prior to taking up the jazz challenge. I am not a big band player not a session player and at my stage in life, largely playing solo guitar and only rarely 'en duo'. The need seldom arises. I have known some pretty average to terrible rank and file classical players in my time for instance and of course they all read notation - did not/does not save them from mediocrity. To be fair, I appreciate some of the arguments here ( particularly Christian ) but have a real sense of a phoney elitism pervading the posts. I could be wrong of course. It may well be that the facility to read frees up eons of time which may then be profitably spent away from one's guitar posting on here
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Last edited by blackcat; 03-30-2023 at 03:42 PM.
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AA: I'm 78 and was introduced to standard notation basics in 7th grade. I'm not defending my ignorance but documenting a genuine limitation of my abilities, periodically re-checked over the intervening six decades. This old man is thoroughly familiar with his strong and weak sides and has a quite detailed understanding of how he learned what he learned and how he might have learned differently under different circumstances. FWIW, I'm also lousy at computational math, was tolerable at geometry, picked up chunks of computer science in my forties, and have forgotten 90% of the dead language I once could read.
And again, I invite any of the reading players here to take on Hawaiian slack key guitar using only standard-notation renderings of the pieces-as-played. Horses, as our English cousins say, for courses. (At least they say it in the Britcoms I like.)
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Many big bands playing in your town? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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yes, quite a few. There’s one I’m doing on Sunday at my local pub, for example, just a fun blow with no rehearsal (or money haha). These sorts of things are reasonably common in London… there’s kind of a circuit… I’ve done a few of them by and by. Originally Posted by Litterick
Last edited by Christian Miller; 03-30-2023 at 04:13 PM.
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We aren't talking about Hawaiian slack key guitar here, that's probably on this forum The Steel Guitar Forum Here we talk about jazz guitar, and in jazz things are written using notation. It is what it is. I didn't make up the custom, it was already 100 years old by the time I got here. Originally Posted by RLetson
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'In jazz'. Wide field/scope you have allowed yourself there. At a full pro' gig I attended last week NOTHING was written. Also, almost every internet course, tuition book ( including books of Etudes by one P.Metheny and another by one M.Taylor ) are published in tab and notation. Some of us like to see both in fact. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Tbf this is a jazz guitar forum and the thread is concerned with jazz guitar…
but you know there’s plenty of great jazz players who aren’t good readers - but they don’t use tabs much either. Tbh if you read too many tunes with the straight-ahead crowd, well
:-<
In London it’s a bit a of a reading vibe for a lot of the paid work - rehearsal time is usually pretty tight if there is any. So you have people who can sight read fly shit esp the horns on the pro scene. (Actually it was a bit of a thing in the 80s, all the horns on pop records were UK horn sections, Lionel Ritchie all that stuff.)
Guitars - well if you can read well it’s a definite plus; sight reading is less important perhaps, but still a valued skill. Jazz originals and arrangements will be in notation… straightahead off chart with the serious players.
as a general player, I would say you definitely need ears because if you have to learn 20 songs in a week, you aren’t getting tabs for that lol. You’ll probably just get sent tracks… maybe a run through if you are lucky. Notation for shows otw.
I’ve been in all these situations. How well I’ve done .. varies… the required skill set is clear.
You can’t make a living playing Stella by Starlight…
If you don’t want to make a living it scarcely matters.
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You’re very defensive. Attitude aside you are right, it doesn’t matter if you can read notation, it just matters if you can play. Originally Posted by blackcat
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Not defensive in the least. You will have noted that I can read - if not as well as I used to. I guess the pedantic nature of much of this debate I find marginally irritating. And pointless. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Last edited by blackcat; 03-31-2023 at 08:26 AM.
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To the cork sniffers out there, here's some thoughts. I'm old enough to have learned guitar by reading music but mostly through ear training.
Tab is fine. I use when because it's convenient and when I don't have a ton of time to transpose the tune.
Looks like tab came before standard notation - at least in relation to stringer instruments. The History of Tablature Notation
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Sniff my cork
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Wait, so you learned to read music and spent a lot of time developing your ears, yet you need tabs to transpose music? Something doesn't add up. Originally Posted by teleman3726
Reading tabs is the opposite of someone with good ears would do to transpose music. Maybe tabs aren't fine after all.
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Certainly tablature is good for a beginner player who doesn't want to waste time learning notes.
I would pay attention to this:
There are different tablatures.
Some are very well written, others not so much.
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And the beat goes on...........and on.
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It makes no difference to me what anyone else uses. Whatever works for you is fine. The real difference, as far as I can see, is that there are orders of magnitude more music available in standard notation than in tab, so the number of tunes is much more limited. If you can get all you want with tab, great. It's none of my business.
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As an aside, if you are a classical guitarist interested in exploring lute repertoire you should learn tab… because a lot of that stuff has never been transcribed into staff notation.
As I said on the other thread, I honestly think guitarists moaning about the difficulty of reading on the guitar is a bit of an excuse. It’s harder than the piano, but then have you seen the stuff pianists are expected to read?
I think most of those interested in music beyond the guitar will learn to read or get good ears. Or both… you have to get the info somehow… the idea that learning notation is a waste of time is I think very short termist. Sometimes you need to balance short term v long term goals, but honestly I wish we were a little less short term sometimes esp in exams and other materials geared at rock and pop players. And that’s not to do with reading so much.
I’d always rather teach classical because as flawed as they those exams are worth something in the development of classical musicianship and instrumental skill (if they are taught well). I’m not convinced half of the stuff out there for rock and pop is actually good for developing core rock and pop guitar skills, meaning ears, groove, performance skills, writing and playing with a band all of which I’d weigh as vastly more important than learning a Hendrix or Steve vai solo note for note from tab or whatever. Or reading notation for that matter, probably even for session guys .
Still, there you go… As Jimmy blue note said in the other thread, the marketplace is the way it is…. It follows that we can’t needle, only decide what kind of compromises we are willing to make.
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tbf you could say the same thing about lead sheets Originally Posted by kris
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Lead boots
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That's why there are respectable publishers that pay attention to it.I mean lead sheets. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The thought process is much easier with tablature.
After that, there may be a problem with naming the note names.
I see this in my students-...convenience?
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as i posted on another thread to get you there faster...10th fret and beyond..band in a box..edit melody track...rechannel to specific guitar fret position over range you choose..reading notes up there is an absolute nightmare...not any more..tabs of course ...just hope you have plenty cLASSIC MGU solos...band in box format...
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At a band rehearsal, the arranger would have to write down the tablature for the guitarist....it's funny.
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WES..any study of Wes shows him moving all over the frets..not easy but a worthy goal to have...
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ill email PG music for an implement Hot Key to rechannel the notes for specific fret positions...Kidding
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