How frowned upon is using guitar tablature?

[Tal_175]

- Jazz ensembles usually have different instruments playing together so tab is rare. - - - Guitar lessons and tutorials discuss the guitar so therefore tab is common.
etc

Even in a strictly guitar context, notation style is relevant I think depending on whether one is just memorizing a guitar part or studying a musical concept in order to be able to apply it creatively to their own improvisation, composition, comping, or arranging.

[Christian Miller]

Well, about the lute, the viola da gamba were for amateurs (nobles / consorts) and instruments from the violin family were for professionals.

I’ve heard that - I’m not sure how true that is. there were definitely both amateur and professional players of the lute. Henry VIII is an obvious example of the former. Dowland is an obvious example of the latter.

The French Revolution definitely killed all the baroque heritage.

I’m not sure what that means given a) not all countries are France b) the Baroque era in music had been superseded by the gallant/classical by that era. Maybe you mean the aristocracy in general became less central to musical patronage (rather completely in France lol) and the middle class became more important consumers of music? That’s a general social and economic trend inherent in capitalism and industrialisation I would say, of which the revolution was a dramatic part.

They also modified bass viola da gamba into upright bass (what I read about it).

This is the Spider-Man style creation myth. I have read that it was WAY more complicated than that. The double bass was standardised much later than the other string instruments and has elements of both families iirc. For instance it was common to have three stringed basses tuned in fifths right up into the C19. People still play what were originally three string basses converted into four strings. I’ve seen them on jazz gigs!

Viola de Gamba is a totally different instrument. More like a cello in register, and with six strings. (I tried one for a bit.)

I’ve heard it argued that the viol and violin family may have been less distinct than we might have been taught.IIRC ‘Viola’ was used interchangeably for both families of instruments for example. Even the guitar is a Viola if you speak Portuguese haha.

Yes, it was oral, during the Classical area, they remained some orality (cadences in a classical concerto : improvisation).
With Romanticism it had been another story.

True - (remember the music written down is mostly rich person music. Folk music remained oral.)

Our ancestors could sing millions of songs, what about us ? We listen to a record and forget it.

maybe we should spend more time learning songs and less time looking at the tabs for Allan Holdsworth solos? ;-)

[Christian Miller]

Even in a strictly guitar context, notation style is relevant I think depending on whether one is just memorizing a guitar part or studying a musical concept in order to be able to apply it creatively to their improvisation, composition, comping, or arranging.

Writing dots definitely makes me think differently about music.

[Lionelsax]

[Christian Miller]

The five or six ‘grande viola de gamba’ is often referred to as a violone in early music circles. This would be, well, effectively a contrabass viol. However according to Wikipedia violone might also be a violin family instrument sometimes as well.

orchestra weren’t standardised until much later so I guess it’s whatever instrument(s) could play the contrabass part.

a opposed to the three stringed basses tuned either G D A or G D G… which I think the text says was more common in Germany and had a more powerful tone? (Excuse me French is not my forte.)

So, as I said, it’s complicated. The double bass isn’t simply a viol, sloped shoulders nonwithstanding. Which is the gist in so much as I understand the two pages you posted.

[RLetson]

My general music-history books are buried somewhere, but my recollection is that the lute was difficult and expensive to build and fussy to maintain, which made it appropriate for the well-to-do. The stringed instruments for those of modest means (and the ones that might hang on a barbershop wall) were the flat-backs--the cittern or bandora--which were also wire-strung and (if I recall correctly) with fixed frets.

Which doesn't change the role of written-down music for these instruments or the kind of scores available to non-elite players.

[RLetson]

Um, I mean, the instruments that were hung on the barbershop walls. Those of modest means might be hanged elsewhere, of course.

[Lionelsax]

In fact, as I know, when they played in an orchestra, they played like jazz players do.
I confess I learnt the piano like this.
They played the continuo, a universal notation for any kind of polyphonic instruments.
For music only written for lutes, viola da gamba, vihuela they wrote with tabs.
Like Christian said, there was a lot of orality, they might play hours a day, so there was a lot of improvisation.
So they acted like pop and jazz players do nowadays.

It exactly what happens today with tabs today, there are tabs when the player doesn't really understand what she or he plays, the vocabulary, the language are missing.
On the other hand, they made tabs for every kind of instruments !
So what I said is not so true except for the continuo.

I barely understand what I wrote in English, I hope you will !

[docsteve]

It exactly what happens today with tabs today, there are tabs when the player doesn't really understand what she or he plays, the vocabulary, the language are missing.
On the other hand, they made tabs for every kind of instruments !
So what I said is not so true except for the continuo.

I barely understand what I wrote in English, I hope you will !

I understand that a lot of classical musicians can read fly sh*t off the page but wouldn't recognize a C major chord if it danced on the table naked in front of them.

[StringNavigator]

Musical Notation is the closest we can get to communicating Music. Especially for counting rhythm. Superior to TAB.
One is the Composer - One is the Director.

Musical Notation presents the musician with the Music to be played, whereas TAB illustrates how the music is to be realised on a stringed instrument, because, as we know, there are many, many ways to play one single strain on fretboards & fingerboards, hence most guitarists lie about reading Music.

Studio musicians may have to read their parts. But many cannot. That's why the producer will specifically call for one who is a reader when the part is difficult. 99% of guitarists will never see the insides of a studio, anyway.

If you really look at Music Notation, you will see how it is really TAB for keyboard instruments. The Grand Stave is suited to the keyboard - it's not even transposed. Guitar music has been transposed an octave and compressed down to a single staff with annoying ledger lines to save on printers' ink. That's why Johnny Smith's Approach to Guitar is written in Grand Stave.

Don't listen to Les Poseurs! Make up your own mind.
Regardless of what you are told, USE BOTH to your advantage, whenever it suits you!
TAB is an accurate mapping of the staff to the fretboard/fingerboard.

(As Maestro Benadetti perused the TAB in secret, we could overhear him mutter, "Ah!")

::

[Christian Miller]

My general music-history books are buried somewhere, but my recollection is that the lute was difficult and expensive to build and fussy to maintain, which made it appropriate for the well-to-do. The stringed instruments for those of modest means (and the ones that might hang on a barbershop wall) were the flat-backs--the cittern or bandora--which were also wire-strung and (if I recall correctly) with fixed frets.

Which doesn't change the role of written-down music for these instruments or the kind of scores available to non-elite players.

lutes are still pretty pricey like archtops as I believe they have to be hand made. I think a good lute will set you back about the same amount as a good Archie. The one I rented was worth about £8,000 back in 2015

The moveable fret thing is actually just a matter of thing a number of lengths of gut string around the neck. I’m surprised if this would be a price factor. Quite the opposite I would expect.

[Christian Miller]

So so far on this thread I’ve been called a poseur, the jazz police, a cork sniffer haha (have I missed any?)

[coyote-1]

“Frowned upon” might be a less than useful phrase in this context. If you can read tab, and the composer is willing to write it, and the bandleader likes the results, where’s the frown coming from?

What I know is that music is put in front of me in standard notation, and if it’s not too complex I can do the gig. If it’s beyond my abilities I don’t pass the audition, and the gig goes to someone with better reading skills than I. This is impetus to increase my ability to read standard notation.

What I also know is: if I write a piece of music and, in order to get it played, I must play it myself and then transpose it into tab for the guitarist….. then for what exactly do I need that guitarist? At least when you’re scoring a piece and transposing it for the horns, you’re still doing that in standard notation and merely changing key. There are many guitarists out there who CAN read a melody from a lead sheet, and those are the folks I will bring in.

[Lionelsax]

The problem is when you say the water is hot, someone will say you're wrong.
No ! You're wrong, the water is hot.
No, you're wrong, the water is 90°C.
No, you're wrong, it's not cold water.
I know more than you know, you know nothing, you read in my mind then you wrote it before I did.

[Christian Miller]

“Frowned upon” might be a less than useful phrase in this context. If you can read tab, and the composer is willing to write it, and the bandleader likes the results, where’s the frown coming from?

What I know is that music is put in front of me in standard notation, and if it’s not too complex I can do the gig. If it’s beyond my abilities I don’t pass the audition, and the gig goes to someone with better reading skills than I. This is impetus to increase my ability to read standard notation.

What I also know is: if I write a piece of music and, in order to get it played, I must play it myself and then transpose it into tab for the guitarist….. then for what exactly do I need that guitarist? At least when you’re scoring a piece and transposing it for the horns, you’re still doing that in standard notation and merely changing key. There are many guitarists out there who CAN read a melody from a lead sheet, and those are the folks I will bring in.

quite

[blackcat]

So so far on this thread I’ve been called a poseur, the jazz police, a cork sniffer haha (have I missed any?)

I'd be more concerned for your practice time Christian! How many hours on this one alone?!!

Nicely.

David

[Christian Miller]

I'd be more concerned for your practice time Christian! How many hours on this one alone?!!

Nicely.

David

Thank you for your concern :-)

now naff off and practice reading.

[blackcat]

Thank you for your concern :-)

now naff off and practice reading.

You have a way with words that's for sure! I actually find most of what you have written to be illuminating, but not sure where this entire debate is headed? Will anything be revealed when the final post is posted that most of us did not appreciate already?

Naffing off now, guitar in hand. Charts in one and reams of tab in the other!

Later.

[voxo]

[Christian Miller]

You have a way with words that's for sure! I actually find most of what you have written to be illuminating, but not sure where this entire debate is headed? Will anything be revealed when the final post is posted that most of us did not appreciate already?

I think the crux was contained in my last post

[blackcat]

I think the crux was contained in my last post

'Nuff said maestro.

[voxo]

im sure tab has its place...here maybe...lol ....myself its a gift of an invention..opened the door...

[Litterick]

Archaeologists of the future will unearth videos of this kind and ask why talented musicians tolerated awful backing tracks.

[blackcat]

im sure tab has its place...here maybe...lol ....myself its a gift of an invention..opened the door...

Yeh, but it seems that it's frowned upon!