Minor ear victory

[CliffR]

Its herding cats, obvs, but I think probably the most fun playing situation of all the playing situations.

Lol, yeah. It was so much easier to do that sort of thing when I was a student.

[Reg]

Yea great idea Allan...

But I gots to say.... playing jazz..... is about performing live in front of an audience. You really can't compare the two.

But I also get the not being able to play gigs etc... It takes time yada yada...and when you get paid there is a level of playing that's implied. And even the freebies ... you usually don't do well,(tips and audiences) when your not interacting with audience and the ensemble... I personally believe playing live... without the skills might reinforce bad habits, bad performance skills.

And performance technique is just another skill. You have technical skills and performance skills. They both need organized adjustable schedules, with goals and timelines with checkpoints etc...

And of course... you need to know yourself etc...

Christian seems like he would be great teacher.... 3 years is a life time. You should be better than what your posts imply. Post something...

[pamosmusic]

Christian seems like he would be great teacher.... 3 years is a life time. You should be better than what your posts imply. Post something...

Oh brother.

The vibe is strong with this one.

[AllanAllen]

Yeah... I'm with Peter on this. There's a time to push and a time to praise.

The guy is proud he learned something by ear for the first time. Let him enjoy the win.

[pamosmusic]

Maybe we should rename the thread ..... DIMINISHED EAR VICTORY.

You're all very very welcome. Good day.

[CliffR]

It's okay guys, I don't mind sharing. I posted this recently, but I guess you missed it Reg. I'd be happy to hear yours and anybody else's critiques. It's certainly far from perfect, but I think it the best thing I've recorded so far.

Christian *is* a great teacher, btw. Any failings should be attributed to me being a slower musical learner, not to him.

[pamosmusic]

Christian *is* a great teacher, btw. Any failings should be attributed to me being a slower musical learner, not to him.

Any failings should be attributed to people who don’t know you very well making assumptions about precisely what you should be learning and how quickly you should be learning it.

Do your thing and take your time.

[Fortune]

Reg is the Jo Jones of the jazz forum.

We all need the proverbial cymbal thrown our way once in a while

Nice work Cliff

[Fortune]

[pamosmusic]

Reg is the Jo Jones of the jazz forum.

We all need the proverbial cymbal thrown our way once in a while

Nope.

[djg]

Reg is the Jo Jones of the jazz forum.

We all need the proverbial cymbal thrown our way once in a while

Nice work Cliff

[Reg]

Yea... thanks Cliff, yes I missed the post.

Pretty easy to push buttons on this forum. Sorry about comments if they were rude etc... But I don't really know where you want to get and where your coming from etc.... try and not get caught up in all the BS.

What do you think is holding you back? Please don't take my comments personally... but checking out your vid. it's very obvious ... technique.

Your picking and fingerings need work. They are holding you back and making it difficult to have feel.

Have you just worked on simple vamps and simple melodic material and get it up to speed.

Ex. Take a simple I VI II V and loop it .... the next step is to expand that simple vamp

ex. // F6 / D7 / G-7 / C7 // becomes...

// F6 / D7 / G-7 / C7 / A-7b5 / D7#9 / G-7 C7#9 //

It doesn't really matter what the Chord Pattern used for the vamp is... the point is to have a simple starting Chord pattern where you don't get stuck moving from chord to chord.... you can play melodic lines that flow through the chords.

Of course your working on targets and contrapuntal concepts... but your getting past the beginning steps and developing technical skills to be able to play at actual tempos when playing jazz.

There are many approaches for getting up to speed.... but you do need to work on it.

Of course... if your happy with what your playing etc... great. It was nice... enjoy the journey. Really.

[CliffR]

Yea... thanks Cliff, yes I missed the post.

Pretty easy to push buttons on this forum. Sorry about comments if they were rude etc... But I don't really know where you want to get and where your coming from etc.... try and not get caught up in all the BS.

What do you think is holding you back? Please don't take my comments personally... but checking out your vid. it's very obvious ... technique.

Your picking and fingerings need work. They are holding you back and making it difficult to have feel.

Have you just worked on simple vamps and simple melodic material and get it up to speed.

Ex. Take a simple I VI II V and loop it .... the next step is to expand that simple vamp

ex. // F6 / D7 / G-7 / C7 // becomes...

// F6 / D7 / G-7 / C7 / A-7b5 / D7#9 / G-7 C7#9 //

It doesn't really matter what the Chord Pattern used for the vamp is... the point is to have a simple starting Chord pattern where you don't get stuck moving from chord to chord.... you can play melodic lines that flow through the chords.

Of course your working on targets and contrapuntal concepts... but your getting past the beginning steps and developing technical skills to be able to play at actual tempos when playing jazz.

There are many approaches for getting up to speed.... but you do need to work on it.

Of course... if your happy with what your playing etc... great. It was nice... enjoy the journey. Really.

Hey Reg - thanks for taking a listen and for the advice. I didn't think your comments were rude, and am in no way offended.

[Reg]

Hey Cliff... cool thanks.

Here's a vid of recent Charles McPherson gig where ensemble recorded the CD Live at Smoke Jazz Club... anyway he talks about why playing live etc... is important. And your teacher Christian might also enjoy it. Charles was a student of BH. The reason I'm posting it.... I transcribed one of the charts.... "Blues For Lonnin in Three" for a recent gig.

Which is generally how most... of my gigs are, sight reading tunes live. It's always just been part of playing Jazz.

Anyway... keep at it.

Reg

[Peter C]

Yeah Reg, if you say it's about technique I'm not going to argue with that since you've spent probably 10-20 times more hours on the instrument than I have.

What I see as the problem is a lack of energy input from the player; the guitar needs to know that it's being played. Is that mostly a technique issue?

[pamosmusic]

Yeah Reg, if you say it's about technique I'm not going to argue with that since you've spent probably 10-20 times more hours on the instrument than I have.

What I see as the problem is a lack of energy input from the player; the guitar needs to know that it's being played. Is that mostly a technique issue?

First off … not sure this is a terribly constructive assessment of “the player” here.

But since it’s been offered.

One of my favorite quotes to this effect is one that a buddy of mine got from Peter Bernstein in a lesson. He said that no matter what kind of music people like and no matter who’s playing it, what people connect with in music is “intentionality.”

Summary: play it like you mean it.

So with that said … sure, technique. You have to know how to make the guitar do what you want it to do.

But also …

You have to have an idea of what you want to make the guitar do. Which is to say … you have to hear it. So ear training.

Bebop heads are great for technique, so transcribing one and working it up is killing two birds with one stone. So maybe our man is actually working on something productive after all. Plot twist.

[starjasmine]

What I see as the problem is a lack of energy input from the player; the guitar needs to know that it's being played. Is that mostly a technique issue?

FWIW, I didn't hear that at all. Cliffie's energy seems fine to me. I agree with Reg's assessment that his mechanical technique (and perhaps conception of how to realize ideas on the fretboard) is occasionally an issue.
I also hear him occasionally getting out of meter, which I'll attribute to getting distracted by the issues mentioned.

When I studied jazz in uni, many of my teachers would say that students needed to "play with conviction" rather than hesitancy. I didn't hear hesitancy/a lack of conviction in your playing, Cliff, just a nice, laid-back level of energy that was consistent with the energy level of the backing track.

In short, I think you're doing fine and that you should just keep doing it more till you work out some of the kinks that occasionally interfere with the execution of your ideas.

$0.02,

SJ

[pamosmusic]

I also think that “conviction” in jazz (at least with respect to the technical aspect of it) is a function a lot of the time of style and not of how fast or agile the fingers are, necessarily.

Meaning articulation, etc.

Another point in favor of bebop heads, I think.

[starjasmine]

I'll also add that you have a nice, round, full, warm tone, Cliff

[Peter C]

Yes, play it like you mean it, that's the ticket. Anyway, my bad because I had in mind Benson's up-tempo version of The Bounce, which sits better on guitar, IMHO.

[Christian Miller]

First off … not sure this is a terribly constructive assessment of “the player” here.

But since it’s been offered.

One of my favorite quotes to this effect is one that a buddy of mine got from Peter Bernstein in a lesson. He said that no matter what kind of music people like and no matter who’s playing it, what people connect with in music is “intentionality.”

Summary: play it like you mean it.

So with that said … sure, technique. You have to know how to make the guitar do what you want it to do.

But also …

You have to have an idea of what you want to make the guitar do. Which is to say … you have to hear it. So ear training.

Bebop heads are great for technique, so transcribing one and working it up is killing two birds with one stone. So maybe our man is actually working on something productive after all. Plot twist.

Imagine


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[CliffR]

FWIW, I didn't hear that at all. Cliffie's energy seems fine to me. I agree with Reg's assessment that his mechanical technique (and perhaps conception of how to realize ideas on the fretboard) is occasionally an issue.
I also hear him occasionally getting out of meter, which I'll attribute to getting distracted by the issues mentioned.

When I studied jazz in uni, many of my teachers would say that students needed to "play with conviction" rather than hesitancy. I didn't hear hesitancy/a lack of conviction in your playing, Cliff, just a nice, laid-back level of energy that was consistent with the energy level of the backing track.

In short, I think you're doing fine and that you should just keep doing it more till you work out some of the kinks that occasionally interfere with the execution of your ideas.

$0.02,

SJ

Thanks SJ! I think that's all fair comment. Playing with conviction has certainly been a problem I've had in the past, but I like to think that it's getting better now. @Peter C - the tempo is what it is because I can't play any faster at the moment. Speed is improving slowly. Unless by energy you mean hitting the strings harder? I don't want to do that to be honest, because I prefer the tone I get with a light attack.

Thanks too SJ for the feedback on the tone. I haven't replaced the strings (light gauge) since I got the guitar three and a half years ago. Good to know I don't need to worry about that just yet .

[Bobby Timmons]

One of my favorite quotes to this effect is one that a buddy of mine got from Peter Bernstein in a lesson. He said that no matter what kind of music people like and no matter who’s playing it, what people connect with in music is “intentionality.”

Agree. The listener won't connect with it without this 'intentionality'. Or explained theoretically - played correctly with a positive time feel. It has to be played mostly correctly, with the meter solid and the time firmly in place. And some command of it to show some flexibility, such as pushing to be energetic, kind of laid back for chill, or right on it for stately etc.

[charlieparker]

Not to hijack the thread, but as someone who is technique challenged, what do we mean by technique? Players like Bernstein and Hall and even a Grant Green seem to get around on Jazz tunes without seeming to have a ton of chops.

[Reg]

Technique is your physical skills playing your instrument. It generally also implies your understanding of using those skills.

Performance skills are just that.... performing and the organizational approaches one uses when performing.

I generally also think of performance skills as things like being able to interact with the ensemble and the audience...

Like being able to have a conversation while playing and not having to stare at the fretboard while playing. Being aware of what's going on ...

Example... one of my gigs last week I worked with a different rhythm section, we were a guitar trio Big Band. I know I've worked with both the drummer and stand up bass. But it's been years, anyway.... we all had chops and can lock in to the music... basically keep band comfortable... so they can concentrate and focus on their sections etc... We also talk and while playing... making sure all have same targets and play what's implied but not notated on charts. Pretty standard performance techniques.