The Uses of Silence

[citizenk74]

Proposition: Silence is to a composer what a blank canvas is to a painter, or a block of marble to a sculptor.

Discuss.

[RJVB]

What's there to discuss? In this case the answer is not 42 but 4'33''

[ragman1]

Proposition: Silence is to a composer what a blank canvas is to a painter, or a block of marble to a sculptor.

Discus.

Ah, a flosifical question!

I would say not, because a blank canvas or a block of marble are visible and tangible. They exist and can be changed, worked on, altered, and transformed into something visualised by the creator.

Silence isn't quite like that, it exists whether we recognise it or not. It doesn't necessarily have to be filled.

Are we sure we want to get into this???!

[JazzPadd]

Silence is balanced with sound, in culturally appropriate proportions.

[mr. beaumont]

Silence is an illusion. It does not actually exist in the world, under natural conditions.

True silence can drive a person mad.

[Marinero]

Silence is an illusion. It does not actually exist in the world, under natural conditions.

True silence can drive a person mad.

Hi, J,
So can bad music!
Marinero

[Marinero]

Hi, C,
Now to answer your question: Silence is an element of music. Simple.
Marinero

[ragman1]

Without silences there would just be continuous notes/music/noise, what you will. That's not musical. It's only silences, i.e. pauses, that give shape and meaning to any piece of music.

But that wasn't Citizen's question. He asked whether silence is, to a composer, akin to a blank canvas or block of marble. Put like that, it becomes a philosophical question because we can't use silence like a blank canvas. We can't shape silence or make something from it.

Or we can say he meant that, if we begin with nothing, i.e. no music, no sound, can we call that silence a blank canvas?

Well, obviously we can since all things start from nothing, but I think it's a rather tortuous simile. It's not really like that because compositions arise from the mind, the imagination, the feelings, not really from silence. Silence, theoretically, is there, naturally, but it's not a material like marble or an artist's canvas.

[Gitfiddler]

In music, 'silence' can also be attributed to 'space'. In guitar soloing, the proper use of space can give an effective and dramatic impact.

Miles Davis was the master in the use of space, as was Jim Hall, Pat Martino and Wes Montgomery.

[citizenk74]

This began as a reaction I had to the "Where Do You Go to Find new Music" thread. My reflex was to think "within" meaning I try to create new (at least to me) music from my own mind and spirit. Earworms (in practical terms, the last thing I heard) get in the way - hence the need for relative quiet, if not silence, which as noted, is rare. On a good day, a phrase may pop into my head. I elaborate from there. But that is my process. I'm not above imitation, repurposing, and theft, but I try to keep it to a minimum. Others have their own approaches and that is fine. Years ago I read an interview with a 12 string player (Shawn is all I can recall) that his method was to go into the studio, and play every song he knew. Only then did he begin to put fresh ideas together.

I am too old and tired for that, and have forgotten more songs than I remember, so I am to an extent recycling old material, albeit unconsciously. I am simply curious about how other composers work.

[citizenk74]

What's there to discuss? In this case the answer is not 42 but 4'33''

Points for the THGTTG reference. Do you have your towel?

[citizenk74]

In music, 'silence' can also be attributed to 'space'. In guitar soloing, the proper use of space can give an effective and dramatic impact.

Miles Davis was the master in the use of space, as was Jim Hall, Pat Martino and Wes Montgomery.

My favorite bass player puts it as "Space - Tension - Resolution." Covers it for me.

[citizenk74]

Without silences there would just be continuous notes/music/noise, what you will. That's not musical. It's only silences, i.e. pauses, that give shape and meaning to any piece of music.

But that wasn't Citizen's question. He asked whether silence is, to a composer, akin to a blank canvas or block of marble. Put like that, it becomes a philosophical question because we can't use silence like a blank canvas. We can't shape silence or make something from it.

Or we can say he meant that, if we begin with nothing, i.e. no music, no sound, can we call that silence a blank canvas?

Well, obviously we can since all things start from nothing, but I think it's a rather tortuous simile. It's not really like that because compositions arise from the mind, the imagination, the feelings, not really from silence. Silence, theoretically, is there, naturally, but it's not a material like marble or an artist's canvas.

Apologies for the squishy simile. Please accept a smiley.

[ragman1]

Citizen -

hence the need for relative quiet, if not silence

Absolutely, that's a different matter. You've got to hear yourself think!

[citizenk74]

Silence is balanced with sound, in culturally appropriate proportions.

I prefer mathematical proportions, but I ain't quite right. Ask anybody.

Also, there's a "cultural appropriation" joke there somewhere, but as Music has refreshed itself with great heaping gobs of "folk" influences forever, I'll let someone else go for it.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.

[RJVB]

Silence is an illusion. It does not actually exist in the world, under natural conditions.

True silence can drive a person mad.

I suppose it exists only for completely deaf people (with a sectioned auditory nerve or some CNS lesion) - but I suppose I wouldn't need that level of impairment to go bonkers.

[citizenk74]

I suppose it exists only for completely deaf people (with a sectioned auditory nerve or some CNS lesion) - but I suppose I wouldn't need that level of impairment to go bonkers.

I am not completely deaf, but suffer from severe tinnitus. I suppose i ponder the idea of silence partly because I can never experience it or even quietness. I play mostly electric so I can "hear" (make sense of) something outside my own skull.

[AlsoRan]

Silence can surely be a tool in solos. I am reminded of some of the Traditional Blues solos I have heard.

In these solos, I sometimes wonder if the artists was having equipment problems or fell off the stage or something. They let the silence reign, and with some, they catch you off-guard, almost playing with your expectations with their own and off beat use of silence.

This solo comes to mind:

[RJVB]

Silence can surely be a tool in solos. I am reminded of some of the Traditional Blues solos I have heard.

Those are rests, but are they silence given that the beat and the bass go on?
This reminds me more of how (I think) Bob Brozeman talks about the blues (feeling) in the Resonate! documentary about National Instruments. You play the 12 bar line over and over again, and when you really can't hold it anymore you play a few melody notes (I think the take-home message was that the urge will ensure that they're the right notes played with the right feel).

[Boogaloo]

I am not completely deaf, but suffer from severe tinnitus. I suppose i ponder the idea of silence partly because I can never experience it or even quietness. I play mostly electric so I can "hear" (make sense of) something outside my own skull.

Me too. I live with tinnitus every day. I think mine comes from gigging with 2 Marshall JCM 800’S for at least 20 years. I’m happy that stage volume has become at least reasonable in the last few years.
I can’t sleep without the tv on. If it’s too quiet I can only hear the sounds in my own head.
Take care

Tim

[Alter]

Silence does exist in nature, if only one goes high up a mountain beyond the forest line, on a day without wind. Then you hear nothing!

There's no music without silence. But more than in music, I've found silence to be very important in a musicians life! We have much more sound in our days compared to average people. For me it has been music and guitar pretty much every waking hour for decades, so eventually I've come to appreciate silence. Along with slowing down.

Generally silence is one of the things I enjoy most in life. I like to listen to music that has a lot of silence and a minimalistic character, but when I play it comes out differently, probably cause I live in a noisy, fast paced city..

Were I living slow motion in a beautiful, peaceful countryside, I'd probably be playing these kinds of music where you have 10 notes per minute!

[j4zz]

Silence is relative. In nearly all examples, silence is simply sound that is too quiet to notice.

In music, it is not black and white (silent or not). Dynamics run the whole range from "silent" to drowning out everything else. Dynamics are VERY important in most types of music, and "silence" Is just one part of that.

[Mark M.]

In the medium of music, the blank canvas is time, not the presence or absence of sound. Silence and sound are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other. They are used as a means of decorating time.

[EastwoodMike]

In the medium of music, the blank canvas is time, not the presence or absence of sound. Silence and sound are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other. They are used as a means of decorating time.

I would think in terms of Music, perhaps, Silence is the colour white? Everything contrasts its tone and impact against that base. Different to the canvas. Canvas is "the song" upon which you can have silence part of it. Or not.

Carving marble is a bit different again. When I carved (wood) panels our instructor would have us try make the subject 'emerge' out of the piece, by removing what is in front of it. Think of a receding water level revealing a submerged object. In reality that absence of material was as important as the presence of the remaining material. The fact that you could not touch or feel this function was just a frame of perspective of what you identify in a sculpture and did not make it any less important to acknowledge. It did my head in. It did mean though the faces I carved became more 3-Dimensional. They were normally too flat. That absence of material is silence in music?

[ragman1]

I am not completely deaf, but suffer from severe tinnitus. I suppose i ponder the idea of silence partly because I can never experience it or even quietness.

In that case, and with all due respect, Citizen, I'm not sure of the point of the thread. Don't you then have to work around what you can do with silence, however difficult and limited?

I don't see much point in making something mysterious about silence in a musical context. It doesn't mean literal silence, it just means spaces between notes and phrases even when there's a background going on. As we said before, it's the spaces that give meaning and structure to the music. Otherwise it's just continuous noise.