Songwriting Rules of the Road (at least in, and ONLY in my opinion)...

**emanresu** · 09-02-2021, 10:58 AM

Very nice talk.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-02-2021, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by joelf

Harold Arlen Wrote with Ted Koehler and Yip Harburg..

Joel, I know you know this but for those who do not, Harold Arlen also collaborated with Johnny Mercer on several great songs: "Blues in the Night," "Come Rain or Come Shine," "One For My Baby (And One More For the Road)", "That Old Black Magic," and "Ac-cent-tchu-ate the Positive"

Mercer is one of my favorite lyricists. His mix of sophistication (-he wrote the lyric for "Satin Doll"--wish he had written more for Ellington!) and folksiness ("Folks around these parts get the time of day / From the Atchison, Topeka & the Santa Fe") have had a profound influence on me because some of his lines strike me as being as good as it gets.

**joelf** · 09-02-2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by jameslovestal

This make me wonder how much actual collaboration other famous music\lyrics duos, like George and Ira Gerswhin, John\Taubin, etc. actual did.

I also wonder about one of the realities of the biz: climbing to make it, and how far climbers are willing to go for the smell of success---and money.

This has many times led to composers seeking out 'connected' lyricists to set their songs and then help sell them. I always felt Bacharach deserved a better lyricist than David, who could be very good, as in Alfie, and other times glossy and candy-apple and sort of cashing in on certain '60s trends and affectations. Or Legrand with the Bergmans---pros, but to me too Hallmark card-like: no real bite and also over-reliant on rhyme and alliteration over substance. In fairness they DID do some terrific work (Nice and Easy) that had real edge. And in fairness to Legrand, he was tremendously successful, didn't need coattails.

But compare the lyric for Once Upon a Summertime to What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life ('All the nickels and the dimes of your days---anything for a rhyme no matter how lame).

The biz is the biz...

**joelf** · 04-23-2022, 10:35 PM

Reviewing this thread I'd like to thank all the contributors for their sage input. Sorry if I was overbearing at times---but that's me (and show biz---LOL).

If you have further observations by all means post them.

'Dis must be da place'...