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  1. #1

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    I'm listening to Bartok's first string quartet. I can't even say why I love it but I do. Should I get a recording and transcribe it? Would that help me to be able to write stuff like that?
    What are the advantages and disadvantages if I want to sound like Bartok. It's four part voicings.
    I don't want to just buy somebody's score and play it.
    David

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    That guy was digging 4ths long before Miles. And his sense of rhythm was incredible. I played many of his folk-song arrangements about twenty years ago. I arranged them for flute and guitar, but I've long lost the manuscripts. All I can say is, good luck!

  4. #3

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    Nice it's my favorite too. I invite you to check Ravel's Quartet (quite different but really amazing)


    I had a class where I was told to listen to Ravel's string quartet (same with Bartok) while reading the score. It really helped managing to understand the music.

    Personally I did the following with Bartok;
    On one side I dug in the scores and also read Ernst Lendvai's Book about Bartok.
    Lendvai-Bartok-Un analisis de su musica.pdf (sorry it's in Spanish...) It is quite a tiny book and it really sums up very well Bartok way of approaching Harmony (chords made from harmonics, use of axis etc). There are a lot of books about Bartok but this one really goes to the essential things.

    One the otherside I just picked things by ear.

    I think both ways are quite important but if you are interested to compose music I would read Lendvai's book and analyse (in your own way) Bartok's work.

    I don't think I helped at all but I'm a huge Bartok fan so I had to reply.

    Take care.

    Sp.

  5. #4

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  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I'm listening to Bartok's first string quartet. I can't even say why I love it but I do. Should I get a recording and transcribe it? Would that help me to be able to write stuff like that?
    What are the advantages and disadvantages if I want to sound like Bartok. It's four part voicings.
    I don't want to just buy somebody's score and play it.
    David
    The approach I take with things like this is to get the score, listen and follow along, and really check out the parts I like. Assuming the score is a good edition, seeing how it's notated will help you a lot.

    Transcribing this stuff is great ear training, but I think it really depends on what you want to do with this. If you want to really internalize the sound, so you use sounds like this in improvisation, sure, transcribe. But, if you're trying to get to what Bartok was thinking, use the score, it's a huge advantage and even things like choices in accidentals are going to give insight. It's how Bartok communicated to musicians playing his work.

  7. #6

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    bird was huge into bartok!!

    bird talking about bartok in a 1953 radio interview, “To my misfortune, he was deceased before I had the pleasure to meet the man. As far as I’m concerned, he is beyond a doubt one of the most finished and accomplished musicians that ever lived.”

    & charlie parker interviewed by late great jazz scholar -nat hentoff-

    “It’s a funny thing, listening to music, any kind,’ Bird went on. “What you hear depends on so many things in yourself. Like I heard Bartok’s Second Piano Concerto over here, and later I heard it again in France. I was more acclimated to life then, and I heard things in it I never heard before. You never know what’s going to happen when you listen to music. All kinds of things can suddenly open up.”


    always been interested in bartok (and modern classical in general)...grew up listening to columbia university wkcr..who dedicated many hours to it...have an original 1949 recording of BARTOK: Music for String Instruments Percussion and Celesta...beautiful

    here's more recent take



    as much about de-construction (in the post modern sense) as construction... space

    listen to it, transcribe it, study the scores and recordings but ultimately you just have to "feel" it within..thats the hard part!!! ...but when you do, it wont just be bartoks anymore, it'll be yours as well

    persevere!

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 07-17-2017 at 06:50 PM. Reason: gr-

  8. #7
    It's so nice to see the quartet buffs come out of the woodwork. Bartok 1, Ligeti's first, Debussey and Ravel quartets along with the Ravel piano trio are high on my lists of things to internalize. They have a harmonic sense, a voice movement and intervallic approach that I can only hope someday to incorporate into a chordal approach.
    Thanks guys! I like the duel score/ear suggestion. I too found listening with a score useful, but also distracting in a way. There are always things that hit me when I'm listening to a piece live, that I can easily miss with a shadowing score. So I do take the aural route and strive to develop an ear that can hear movement at speed and revisit through recordings.

    I'll just keep jumping in the pool and one day I'll understand the fish a little better.

    Interesting that in music school, nobody would ever have suggested transcribing a quartet by ear as an analytical tool and I do wonder how many layers of a composer's creative process can be uncovered through this, but it might be a revelation.

    David

  9. #8

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    I wanted to do the same thing when I was much younger. I never did. I think it would be great for your ears, especially if you desire to be a composer. Great for your ears. I'd stay away from the written score, in the beginning, for this exercise. I wouldn't be studying the score so much as exercise my ears!

  10. #9

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    I'm listening to Bartok's first string quartet. I can't even say why I love it but I do. Should I get a recording and transcribe it? Would that help me to be able to write stuff like that?
    What are the advantages and disadvantages if I want to sound like Bartok. It's four part voicings.
    I don't want to just buy somebody's score and play it.
    I listened to Bartok quite a lot for some time... I can't say I am really a big fan.. I believe the pieces I liked the most were 'Blue beard' (opera) and Violine concerto... also some quartes.
    But I believe I listned to him from a bit different perspective than jazz player would do.. I noticed that they often hear this kind of stuff in an absolutely different manner.
    I did not care much about the 'sound' as locality ... I was more into the form, its development etc.

    As per transcribing... I don't know.. I transcribed classical pieces only when I could not get the score.
    But depends on purposes. In case you want 'the sound' transcribing some fragments is very good I believe...
    In case you want to get what's really going on there with music, the score is much faster and better.

  11. #10
    There was a very strong parallel between Coltrane, the more "modern" jazz, and Bartok and the more "contemporary" composers for me. They were both almost repulsive and certainly not my choice for taste in listening... until one day when music stopped being strictly something that was pleasant and started to be an artform that described some spectrum of human emotion.

    That's what improvisation has become for me and a constant search for new textures and broader vocabulary has been in the fore since.
    It's funny because when I was younger, I loved Oscar Peterson and I didn't "get" Monk; I didn't think he could swing. Now Monk, Herbie Nichols and Matthew Shipp define the possibilities of swing for me. In the evolution of the artform and the broadening of my own ears, the ways that I can learn become less the realm of convention and more a personal approach is absolutely necessary. That's why my original post.

    The responses I've gotten here have been fresh and surprising. Thanks guys-

    David






  12. #11

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    I just meant that jazzplayers when listen to classical (or modern classical composers) are very often focused on sonority... the effect achieved by unusual intrevals, intonations etc.
    Often they kind of 'look from outside'

  13. #12

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    To Duke reminded me of Tom Waits's tour de force in the role of Renfield:

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post
    To Duke reminded me of Tom Waits's tour de force in the role of Renfield:
    In what ways?
    David

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    In what ways?
    David
    Bold, weird and compelling.

    PS Came across this gem while looking for the haunting piece Mina/Love Remembered:
    <em>
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-18-2017 at 10:58 AM.