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  1. #1

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    Nibiru, the jazz tune. Dedicated to the forum.-nibiru-jpg

    This one goes out to DocDosco

    It's an exploration of some ideas I got off the back or a lorry (truck, Americans!) driven by Ben Monder and Lage Lund.

    At some point I may learn to play it. Guess what tune it's based on!
    Last edited by christianm77; 01-07-2017 at 08:54 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee View Post
    Don't have a guitar handy to check, but I want to say Out of Nowhere?
    You get special prize!

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    some ideas I got off the back of a lorry
    If you say so, Christian :-)

  5. #4

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    Great! Just in the interests of learning something - I take it a maj7sus2 chord replaces the 3rd with the 2nd? Also, I find these kind of slash chords quite tricky to play just reading through - do you have any suggested fingerings? All just if you have time anyhow, and cheers for posting the composition.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meggy View Post
    Great! Just in the interests of learning something - I take it a maj7sus2 chord replaces the 3rd with the 2nd? Also, I find these kind of slash chords quite tricky to play just reading through - do you have any suggested fingerings? All just if you have time anyhow, and cheers for posting the composition.
    Yes you are right - Cmaj7sus2, for example is C D G B

    Re: fingerings haha I'm afraid not, at least I haven't come up with any yet. This would be the sort of thing that would work best as a band probably. A maj7sus2 chord over a funny bass note is a five note chord and that's hard on the guitar alone.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Yes you are right - Cmaj7sus2, for example is C D G B

    Re: fingerings haha I'm afraid not, at least I haven't come up with any yet. This would be the sort of thing that would work best as a band probably. A maj7sus2 chord over a funny bass note is a five note chord and that's hard on the guitar alone.
    Thanks for this - I realised that a maj7sus2 chord is in itself a slash chord, at least if the root is in the bass, for example Gmaj7sus2 is the same as D/G. So your chords for this piece are kind of double slash chords, which I find interesting. I'm sure you already know this!

    0x3553 is quite nice for an Fmaj7sus2/E, but of course that's "cheating" by using the open E, and not moveable - at least beyond my finger stretching capabilities. But with that chord, I do find missing out the high G note doesn't seem to alter the overall flavour/sound too much, and so maybe doing that generally gives a bit more room to find voicings practical for solo guitar. Not sure if, as the composer, you'd approve of doing that though!

    Anyhow, your piece has sent me off on a bit of interesting harmonic exploration/discovery, so cheers again.
    Last edited by Meggy; 01-14-2017 at 08:39 AM.

  8. #7

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    If I play it will the world end?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meggy View Post
    Great! Just in the interests of learning something - I take it a maj7sus2 chord replaces the 3rd with the 2nd? Also, I find these kind of slash chords quite tricky to play just reading through - do you have any suggested fingerings? All just if you have time anyhow, and cheers for posting the composition.
    1) Don't trust stuff that looks too complicated

    2) First play reduced (ordinary) chords: GM7 - DbM7 etc to see what it's like

    3) M7sus2 chords are M9 by any other name. GM7 - 3x443x. GM9 or GM7sus2 - 3x423x

    4) Find your own fingerings for slash chords.

    i.e FM7sus2/E =

    FM7 FACE
    FM9 FGCE
    rearrange notes EGCF
    find fingering x7556x

    Et voila.

  10. #9

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    Or you could try it over the vanilla changes. TBH I haven't even played this tune yet...

  11. #10

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    The connection is the multiple conspiracy theory threads we've seen lately.

    I'm a write a tune called "pinball and pizza."
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #11

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    Here we go. I've done a midi version so you can hear it. It goes round twice, first time a (midi-style!) sax solo then piano. Well, nothing ventured :-)

    Last edited by ragman1; 01-15-2017 at 01:43 AM.

  13. #12

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    Out of this world!
    Build bridges, not walls.

  14. #13

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    Awesome! Thank you, ragman1, for bringing this to life, and thank you, christianm77, for composing this intriguing piece!
    Best regards, k

  15. #14

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    I think it's lost something in translation from midi to wav and from here to SoundCloud. Also the comping behind the tune is suspect. Don't be surprised if I repost it sometime soon.

    It can't be much faster than that as it'll trip over itself (more than it's doing at the moment).
    Last edited by ragman1; 01-15-2017 at 04:10 AM.

  16. #15

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    Cool, has a sort of Tristano/Konitz contrafact vibe.

  17. #16

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    I hear it as straight myself

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I hear it as straight myself
    Isn't the Nibiruvian anthem in 7/8? That would have been an nice touch to this tune.
    Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 01-15-2017 at 03:03 PM.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  19. #18

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    Nibiru is a sort of doomsday planetary cataclysm... coming soon to a place near us apparently :-)

    Anyway, here it is again with bells and whistles. I've put in a few twiddles to break it up.

    Maybe the bass could be a bit more adventurous. As it's cataclysmic I thought of using overdriven guitar but, you know, the headache's already bad enough




    (If it doesn't sound quite balanced it's because the relative instrument volumes alter between one program and another. But enough techie woes).
    Last edited by ragman1; 01-15-2017 at 02:47 PM.

  20. #19

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    I think the bass should be a P-bass OC2 with a filter sweep Tim LeFebvre post-dub step 2011 type of vibe.

  21. #20

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    I knew that

    Do you really like it? I'm sure others here could do much more with it. I wish they would.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I think the bass should be a P-bass OC2 with a filter sweep Tim LeFebvre post-dub step 2011 type of vibe.
    Absolutely, I thought that too.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Nibiru is a sort of doomsday planetary cataclysm... coming soon to a place near us apparently :-)




    I like it .. nice tune

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I think the bass should be a P-bass OC2 with a filter sweep Tim LeFebvre post-dub step 2011 type of vibe.
    Exactly .. as long as the guitar player doesn't smoke to much Mike Stern and goes 70s retro on it

  24. #23

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    I'm glad y'all know what you're talking about

    I might try it with an organ - you know, doomsday horror...

  25. #24

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    Actually, I'm feeling a bit of a "dark ambient" vibe for this - something to evoke an appropriate sense of ominous foreboding...

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I think the bass should be a P-bass OC2 with a filter sweep Tim LeFebvre post-dub step 2011 type of vibe.
    Was this post in English?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Was this post in English?
    No it's in bass

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    No it's in bass
    Ah, that's the problem.

    I'd love to try the tune, but I think it's probably over my head.

    Well, that and the idea of Nbiru and the impending doom of earth is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of, and I can't risk getting any dumber delving into the story to get the appropriate inspiration. I didn't exactly take great care of my brain cells in high school, y'dig?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  29. #28

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    Does BIAB do dark gloom?


    only when it stops working

  30. #29

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    Nibiru, the jazz tune. Dedicated to the forum.-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-png

  31. #30

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    BTW if anyone is interested, this tune is very much a concept tune and etude. I think it turned out pretty tuneful, so I might actually play it on gigs. Currently learning it ATM.

    Harmonically, the chords are (obviously) based around using a fixed structure - in this case 1 2 5 7 - over all the functions of the chords of the original tune. This comes directly from Lage Lund.

    So
    maj7 - on the 1
    min7 - on the b3
    dim7 - on the b3 (in this case Bbo7 --> Dbmaj7sus2)
    dom7 - on the b7
    dom7alt - on the b2

    I preserve the original bass notes, but you don't have to use them.

    In terms of playing the changes the challenge is to go from something very parallel to voice lead. When I practice playing the chords to this tune I shall focus on practicing them very much in position on set string groups.

    You can think of the changes as standard drop2's and 3's etc where the 3rd is moved down a step. Good practice.

    You can also view them intervallically.

    Now melody - I've been looking a lot at CST again recently. In this case the Lydian mode fits on all of the chords because of the substitution formula I used. So that's easy.

    Gmaj7 --> G Lydian
    Eb7 --> Db Lydian
    (Bm7b5) E7alt --> F lyd
    Am7 --> C Lyd
    Cm7 --> Eb Lyd
    Bbo7 --> Db Lyd (C# Lyd)

    In general I stripped away any ii chords in ii-V's to keep the structure uncluttered, and the harmonic rhythm steady.

    Now what do I do with the scales? Well first I composed the rhythm. I wanted an interesting rhythm, but to get that contemporary sound I avoided triplets and I think this will be played with a straight 8s feel. I can imagine Barry glaring at me as I type this. Sorry bop dudes, it gets worse.

    Secondly I used a pattern I was introduced to by a Ben Monder vid - very simply, instead of using one interval to define your line, you use two - in this case a diatonic 2nd and a diatonic 4th in a stack for a non tertial sound. I really like the sound of this combination, and it's something I'm keen to internalise for my contemporary playing.

    Most of the ascending phrases are based on this, while the ascending phrases are in scales. I mix up some of the ascending phrases to stop it getting too patterny.

    This is a bit like the bebop practice of going up a triad or chord and then descending by step. Because the scales contain no avoid notes, I don't need to use added notes.

  32. #31

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    Makes me want to stand at 'attention' in a floral print Speedo, beret and platform rhinestone cowboy boots.

    Music evokes powerful responses.

  33. #32

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    Headwear from Nibiru (and not bad musically):



  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    chords are (obviously) based around using a fixed structure - in this case 1 2 5 7 - over all the functions of the chords of the original tune. This comes directly from Lage Lund.

    So
    maj7 - on the 1
    min7 - on the b3
    dim7 - on the b3 (in this case Bbo7 --> Dbmaj7sus2)
    dom7 - on the b7
    dom7alt - on the b2

    I preserve the original bass notes, but you don't have to use them.
    ...
    In general I stripped away any ii chords in ii-V's to keep the structure uncluttered, and the harmonic rhythm steady.
    ...
    using one interval to define your line
    ...
    diatonic 2nd and a diatonic 4th in a stack for a non tertial sound.
    ...
    This is a bit like the bebop practice of going up a triad or chord
    I totally don't get above. I mean, I read words and get the idea what it could be, but it does not correspond to what I see is done.

    Tune is in G right?

    1257 on 1? Could it be G A D F#, or you mean something completely different?
    Is 3rd omitted from the chord? If it is, how do we even know it's Maj, or even if it is G?

    You have 2 different b3?! Typo? b3 is Bb, there is not Bb in tune, except as ii, but you've stripped all iis ...

    I don't get how to get these chords, FMaj7 from E7, DbMaj7 from Eb7, EbMaj from A, C#Maj7 from G# ..., by applying 1257 structure to ... what ...?

    b7 is F, there is no F bass in Nibru?!

    How do I get FMaj7 from E7, or other chords from Nibru, by "moving 3rd down a step"?

    How does one define line by one interval? Is it a special case line where you use only one interval, or am I really supposed to define any line using only one interval?
    Using 2 intervals to define ... is it special case of line where only 2 different intervals are used?

    I'm totally lost, unless it was the goal, like whole Nibru planet hoax?!
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  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    I totally don't get above. I mean, I read words and get the idea what it could be, but it does not correspond to what I see is done.

    Tune is in G right?

    1257 on 1? Could it be G A D F#, or you mean something completely different?
    Is 3rd omitted from the chord? If it is, how do we even know it's Maj, or even if it is G?

    You have 2 different b3?! Typo? b3 is Bb, there is not Bb in tune, except as ii, but you've stripped all iis ...

    I don't get how to get these chords, FMaj7 from E7, DbMaj7 from Eb7, EbMaj from A, C#Maj7 from G# ..., by applying 1257 structure to ... what ...?

    b7 is F, there is no F bass in Nibru?!

    How do I get FMaj7 from E7, or other chords from Nibru, by "moving 3rd down a step"?

    How does one define line by one interval? Is it a special case line where you use only one interval, or am I really supposed to define any line using only one interval?
    Using 2 intervals to define ... is it special case of line where only 2 different intervals are used?

    I'm totally lost, unless it was the goal, like whole Nibru planet hoax?!
    I'm talking relative to the root of the chord.

    So b3 of A --> C
    etc

  36. #35

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    Thank you. How about "defining line by using only one interval" and the rest of my questions?

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
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  37. #36

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    Anyone got a midi file for this?

  38. #37

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    Well, I've got one on SoundCloud.


  39. #38

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    Sorry, it double-posted. I'll remove it when the maintenance is over.

  40. #39

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    Is that how it's spelled? I thoughtit was Nibru. Maybe that's why my black hoke sun clip receives no vievmws, the title is misssplelled. Gotta change that one

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
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  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Thank you. How about "defining line by using only one interval" and the rest of my questions?

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    Well you could stack say fourths on top of each other. If you transpose some of the line down by an octave to keep in register, you get stuff that sounds like Eddie Harris.

    Third have been used in this way in bebop and swing music - Honeysuckle Rose for instance. Stacks of thirds are common too.

  42. #41

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    So, it would be something alike to arpeggio?

    In 2nds and 4ths from G:

    gadeabef#bc#f#g# ?

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    Last edited by Vladan; 01-18-2017 at 04:35 PM.
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  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    So, it would be something alike to arpeggio?

    In 2nds and 4ths from G:

    gadeabef#bc#f#g# ?

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    Yep. That's an example of it done chromatically. In this tune I do it diatonically through the mode, for example on C lydian

    C D G A E F# B C F G D E A B F# G C

    You can see it goes quite a way before it repeats

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Is that how it's spelled? I thoughtit was Nibru. Maybe that's why my black hoke sun clip receives no vievmws, the title is misssplelled. Gotta change that one

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    Conspiracy theory claims Nibiru will hit in 2017 and the US Government KNOWS it is coming | Daily Star

    I'll say goodbye now then :-)

  45. #44

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    Who wrote this?

    “Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”

    The Christians? The Seventh Day whatever? Some bizarre suicide sect?

    No... it was the Assyrians in 2800BC

  46. #45

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    Christian would you have a look at #42 please? Ta.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Christian would you have a look at #42 please? Ta.
    Yeah, it's a forum in joke. Much discussion of the Nibiru conspiracy theory eleswhere....

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Yeah, it's a forum in joke. Much discussion of the Nibiru conspiracy theory eleswhere....
    Oh-h-h-h

  49. #48

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    Finally got around to learning my own tune..... Two repetitions of it - first time is with the vanilla Out of Nowhere changes, second is with the changes written above.

    Dropbox - Nibiru.m4a

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee View Post
    Nice, Christian. Would you be interested in hearing my version of your tune? I wouldn't feel right posting it without your consent.
    Go for it, I'd love to hear it :-)

    (Unless it's on banjo)

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Go for it, I'd love to hear it :-)

    (Unless it's on banjo)
    Grrr... As if you didn't know the Nibiruvian national instrument, the banjaccordion!
    Build bridges, not walls.