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  1. #1

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    Is the difference just that 12/8 is 4/4 with a triplet feel while 6/4 is just six beats?

    And if so, what are the strong beats for 6/4? 1, 3 and 5?

    I'm more interested in 6/4. Does anybody know any tunes in 6/4?
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  3. #2

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    I don't know. Whatever. Personally, I refer to it as 6/8. My point is it's 3 feel, as opposed to 4, of 4/4. Also, I'm rather bad in playing 3/4, it's much easier to "think" 6/8. Once I conquered 6/8, 12/8 became just an unnecessary weight.

    Own example, same tune in 6/8 (12/8) vs. 4/4:

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  4. #3

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    Footprints, by Wayne Shorter, is in 6/4.

  5. #4
    Interesting. Some charts have it in 6/4, others in 3/4. The way the fourth beat gets anticipated/accented makes it seem like the 1 and the 4 are the strong beats. So wouldn't that argue for it being in 3/4, ie groups of 3?

    So what is the difference between 6/4 and 3/4? I am imagining that 6/4 has 1, 3, 5 all strong beats, while 3/4 has a much stronger 1 beat. Is that wrong?

    ----------------------------

    On the other hand I can see how the six beat bass figure in Footprints might argue for 6/4.

    (Insert smiley for confused.)
    Last edited by jster; 02-21-2014 at 10:53 AM.
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  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by jster View Post
    So what is the difference between 6/4 and 3/4? I am imagining that 6/4 has 1, 3, 5 all strong beats, while 3/4 has a much stronger 1 beat. Is that wrong?

    ----------------------------

    On the other hand I can see how the six beat bass figure in Footprints might argue for 6/4.

    (Insert smiley for confused.)
    6/4 is a slower 6/8, the accent in either is [1 2 3] [4 5 6] | [1 2 3] [4 5 6] |...

    I've seen Footprints written in 3/4, like in the Real Book:



    WWhat's the difference between writing something in 3/4 and combining pairs of measures and writing it in 6/4? Not a lot, I claim. There is the bass figure in footsteps, but having a repeated two-measure long rhythmic figure is a common thing.

    Another one: Bluesette. I've seen it written as a 24 bar tune in 3/4, but I hear it as 12 bar tune in 6/8.
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  7. #6
    There is a prettier chart in 6/8:

    http://www.mobetterblues.altervista....Footprints.gif

    So what time signature should you use for 1 2 3 4 5 6? 3/4 doesn't seem correct since 3/4 puts more weight on the 1. Or what about something that is just 1 2 3 4 5 6.

    (Perhaps I should add as an aside that I have spent the better part of the week discovering the power of "arranging" drum tracks. When my melodic and harmonic powers give out, a well placed symbol crash or gun shot comes in handy!)
    Last edited by jster; 02-21-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jster View Post
    So what time signature should you use for 1 2 3 4 5 6? 3/4 doesn't seem correct since 3/4 puts more weight on the 1. Or what about something that is just 1 2 3 4 5 6.
    In either case, I'd probably write it as 3/4, but in the first case I might comment "more even accents". There is all sorts of music written in 3/4 with different feels.

    Edit: use 3/2? Nah, that's just a slow 3/4, right?
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  9. #8

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    Rhythms occur in ratios and the same info can often be notated in more than one way.
    Sometimes one choice is more in tune with common practice but common practice can vary between cultures.
    I find most often in the USA samba charts notated in cut time while the same songs on Brazilian charts appear in 2/4.
    They are both mathematically accurate. 6/4 is not in very common usage. Personally, I might use it to indicate a slow 6/8 feel in a duple meter, primary accents on 1 and 4 (except when they're not).

    Six is a great number because it is an intersection point between 2 and 3, duple and triple meter. Furthermore, twelve is an intersection point for 4. A faster cut time feeling in 6/4, accents on 1, 3 and 5 I would probably notate in 3/2.

    Here's an example from Milton Nascimento that I wrote out in 3/2 but I haven't seen the Brazilian edition yet to compare.

    I believe this was the original version



    and a live one, pretty stretched out


  10. #9

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    Check out the song Six to Four by George Benson on the Breezin' album. That is 6/4 time with accents on 1,3, and 5.

  11. #10

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    In my mind, Footprints makes more sense in 6/4, since it's easier to spot what the form is - a minor blues.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodinFan View Post
    In my mind, Footprints makes more sense in 6/4, since it's easier to spot what the form is - a minor blues.
    Same for Bluesette?
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  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    Same for Bluesette?
    No, Blusette is a jazz waltz. A total different feel.
    It does not make sense to write "Footprints" in 3/4, just look at the bass-line, it restarts every 6 beats.

  14. #13

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    Since I am anyway in recording mode (or mood?)

    Here's how we sometimes play songs in 6/4 divided 2-2-2:



    Jens
    jenslarsen.nl --- My YouTube Channel with lessons and live videos--- YT Lesson Facebook page --- Træben album: Storm on itunes

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  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    Same for Bluesette?
    Well, it becomes easier to see that it is in fact an embellished Parker blues i you think it in 6/4 but as Soco said it is usually played as a waltz.

    Jens
    jenslarsen.nl --- My YouTube Channel with lessons and live videos--- YT Lesson Facebook page --- Træben album: Storm on itunes

    I endorse Ibanez guitars, John Daw Custom picks and QSC monitors

  16. #15
    I went with 6/4. I have two vocal lines and three drum lines. There are three bars of 6/4 with accents like this:

    |123456|123456|123456|

    So as you can see, there is a 123 (waltz) feel at the beginning but it quickly gets disrupted. 3/2 wouldnt'do justice to the big 2's and 5's.

    Blame it on computer drums. But actually I'm really happy with it. Just wasn't sure how to notate it.

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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by JensL View Post
    Since I am anyway in recording mode (or mood?)

    Here's how we sometimes play songs in 6/4 divided 2-2-2:



    Jens
    Nice. Very interesting. To me it sounds almost like 7/8 with one 1/8 removed.

    Even meter played odd number of repetitions is quite different than odd meter played even number of repetitions.
    What you played comes down to 2/4 (x3), an even number in dividend, so it's even meter. even/even.

    Usually, played even number of repetitions, 6/4 and 12/8, come down to 3/2(x2), and 3/8 (x4).
    6/8 comes to 3/4.
    All odd numbers in dividend make them all odd meter. odd/even.

    That's ehy I said what I said in my first ost here, the only really important thing is odd vs. even, 3 vs. 4.

    You can make bar lines at any place and write the division accordingly, but important is how it sound and how you play it.
    Last edited by Vladan; 02-23-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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  18. #17

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    Thanks Vladan,

    I actually had the comment often that it sounded like 5/4

    Jens
    jenslarsen.nl --- My YouTube Channel with lessons and live videos--- YT Lesson Facebook page --- Træben album: Storm on itunes

    I endorse Ibanez guitars, John Daw Custom picks and QSC monitors