Blues and Jazz-Blues Comping Recommendations ?

[jamiehenderson1993]

I'm messing around with different ways of comping over a 12 bar Blues or Jazz-Blues - mainly using Now's The Time.

I'm mainly using shell chords (F: x878xx and Bb: 6x67xx and C: 8x89xx) which sounds fine because my Right Hand rhythm and Left Hand muting is fairly tight, and when I add in some chromatic movement (and slide-slipping) between chords it sounds ok too. It all feels a bit aimless, however. I'm listening to recordings, but it all feels a bit much, and I feel a bit lost with where to go from here.

What I'm hoping for is a book that someone has written on Blues and Jazz Rhythm that can give me very concrete ideas that I can then mess around with ... does that exist!?? There seem to be lots written about Jazz and Blues Lead Playing, but not a huge amount on Rhythm (other than Chunk-a Chunk-a....)

Any advice appreciated!

[mr. beaumont]

What kind of rhythms are you currently playing with these chords?

[pamosmusic]

I'm messing around with different ways of comping over a 12 bar Blues or Jazz-Blues - mainly using Now's The Time.

I'm mainly using shell chords (F: x878xx and Bb: 6x67xx and C: 8x89xx) which sounds fine because my Right Hand rhythm and Left Hand muting is fairly tight, and when I add in some chromatic movement between chords it sounds ok too. It all feels a bit aimless, however. I'm listening to recordings, but it all feels a bit much, and I feel a bit lost with where to go from here.

What I'm hoping for is a book that someone has written on Blues and Jazz Rhythm that can give me very concrete ideas that I can then mess around with ... does that exist!?? There seem to be lots written about Jazz and Blues Lead Playing, but not a huge amount on Rhythm (other than Chunk-a Chunk-a....)

Any advice appreciated!

This is of course a non-answer but listen to Red Garland on Miles recordings.

Straight No Chaser from Milestones is a great one. The rhythms are very simple and are made up of two or maybe three attacks.

He has a very small repertoire of stock rhythms that basically never sound old. Lots are based around chords on the 1 and 3, and with anticipation or delay of one or both, he’s kind of turns those couple rhythms into a whole vocabulary.

A lot of the times with those side slipping chromatic chords, the move is to find rhythms that work, and then see how to fit your chromatic motion in from there.

[jamiehenderson1993]

What kind of rhythms are you currently playing with these chords?

4 quarter notes; Charleston; reverse Charleston; and of 4 and 2.
That's mainly it.

[mr. beaumont]

So aside from the listening, something that can get results right away would be to take that note off the 6th string and add a note on to the second string in your chords. That note can change too...it's going to become a lead line in your comping.

Then, start mixing up rhythms...and lay out bars too.

(Or, join me on the darkside for the Summer of Rhythm guitar if you really want to get into what you can do with 4 quarter notes)

[Bobby Timmons]

Accurate advice from the others. For me, a very easy way to feel unstuck with comping is to simply view it as you're still soloing but in a simple way. Approach it as if you're creating a little chord melody that accents the groove and fits in with the lead without detracting from it. You do this by working out voicings to the chords that rise and fall with your melody note. This gets you out of thinking all you can do is chunk chunk the same 3 chords.

[jamiehenderson1993]

(Or, join me on the darkside for the Summer of Rhythm guitar if you really want to get into what you can do with 4 quarter notes)

I'm intrigued ... - what does this involve?

[mr. beaumont]

I'm intrigued ... - what does this involve?

I'm going to make another video today that explains it better I think, but really it's just a broad idea of spending the summer exploring Freddie Green style rhythm playing a bit every day, and frequently recording yourself to gauge progress, drum up interest, and self-motivate.

Really, I don't even mind if I'm going alone on it, but it's fun to have company...you know what, I'm going to just post more about it now in the thread and do a video later...

The Summer of Rhythm Guitar 2024

[gusgtr]

I would take a look at this

https://www.melbay.com/Products/9684...zz-guitar.aspx

[Alter]

Comping phrases are just like soloing phrases: they have a melody (formed by the voicings top notes), and a rhythm. The comping language in similar to the soloing language, it is a collection of chord phrases you slowly build, by listening to standards and learning phrases bit by bit.

The voicings can be expansions of shell voicings, drop 2, drop 3, quartal, intervallic voicings, motivic, whatever, but you still need to develop a solid foundation of chord melodies and rhythms to support the language. At least that has been the way I understand and practice it!

[AllanAllen]

This book helped me get to the point where I understood Peter and Jeff’s advice.

Its got a few ways to play through 10 or so standards.




https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Jazz-Guitar-Voicings-Comping/dp/1562242784/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2F5V4PO1IWBGQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9 .EwpvQiM45vj_4u2YodTQ91zpmIENsBNKlHbko4EE9snT2-KzWcb7l8NaW1VcPzrMXDdajY_wTiUyRyoq6ntCJaRzsCCZVY10 oZb1dm1WgT-Mp_LKOJyYT3CplXoGO5wlaCqW7GElre13gDwASUIf_Q01V3_lH NxlEGUKWpgsFv9RgmkT6ly_Cv37ilIFJKEuOG2ksYwdABQXXcd gd5jiBw.Nnk-y72N5aP4USOW46mRqvfaYoafbmJSCaa-bSckdqY&dib_tag=se&keywords=easy+jazz+guitar+al+di &qid=1717449755&sprefix=easy+jazz+guitat+al+di%2Ca ps%2C204&sr=8-1

[Reg]

Comping phrases are just like soloing phrases: they have a melody (formed by the voicings top notes), and a rhythm. The comping language in similar to the soloing language, it is a collection of chord phrases you slowly build, by listening to standards and learning phrases bit by bit.

The voicings can be expansions of shell voicings, drop 2, drop 3, quartal, intervallic voicings, motivic, whatever, but you still need to develop a solid foundation of chord melodies and rhythms to support the language. At least that has been the way I understand and practice it!

Wow... actual great advice that can work. Nice "Alter"

[Bobby Timmons]

That's the same thing I said lol.

[Bobby Timmons]

Joe Pass explaining the premise at 19:50 - 21:00 then the demonstration preceding it at 18:05. How you're not just chunking out chords. You have movement and melody going on in and driving the harmony that you create. The rest of the video would probably be useful to you also since you're working on bluez.

[Alter]

If I am working on comping, I will pick any comping phrase from a recording, then play throughout the whole tune keeping that rhythm and adjusting the chords. Then rinse and repeat choosing another phrase. Do that with one bar, two bar rhythms, etc.. Added benefit is that you get to enjoy a whole brand new listening perspective of the music, since you may listen to a CD you have listened to many times, but have never really focused on the comping patterns! (Same thing if studying bass lines for walking bass for example). Besides pianists, drummers can be a great source of comping patterns, especially on trio piano-less albums.

There is also the technical aspect of it that can be challenging, since chord phrases can be difficult to play. The best approach for me has been isolating any phrase i like, then playing it chromatically up and down the neck in all keys (with a metronome once i get the phrase going). This way you master the phrase, and also the ability to quickly see it and find it no matter the key.

[bloos66]

2 books I like are :

All Blues for Jazz Guitar: Comping Styles, Chords & Grooves: Comping Styles, Chords and Grooves by Jim Ferguson (Author)

and - but this in in German and mainly applies to jazz rhythm guitar in orchestras and ensembles (FG style) -

Stompin' Guitar by Ulrich Hoffmeier

Here is a video demonstrating some comping -

[JazzPadd]

These two oldies but goodies got me on the right track when I first started back in the 1980s, and are still worth a look today:

.

Joe Pass also did a video, IIRC, on jazz blues that you may like.

The Galbraith book is not blues specific, but it does go through 3 and 4 note voicings and voice leading, and other aspects of comping that are useful.



Happy playing!

Edit: Added a page from Galbraith. Enjoy!

[alltunes]

What I'm hoping for is a book that someone has written on Blues and Jazz Rhythm that can give me very concrete ideas that I can then mess around with ... does that exist!?? There seem to be lots written about Jazz and Blues Lead Playing, but not a huge amount on Rhythm (other than Chunk-a Chunk-a....)

Any advice appreciated!

Better than a book…for a one time purchase of $15 you have 40 minutes of instruction on the topic forever. Watch and listen. I love books and held on to the belief that they are useful in the guitar instruction world but in this day and age a video lesson is far superior. In this lesson Barry uses a Bb blues as the basis but obviously the ideas and concepts can and should be transposed.

Comping on the Blues - Topic Driven - Barry Greene Video Lessons

Also here is a free YT by Barry on the subject

Live Master Class - Comping on the Blues - Barry Greene Video Lessons - YouTube

Forum member Reg has a great YT on comping as well.

[pamosmusic]

If I am working on comping, I will pick any comping phrase from a recording, then play throughout the whole tune keeping that rhythm and adjusting the chords. Then rinse and repeat choosing another phrase. Do that with one bar, two bar rhythms, etc.. Added benefit is that you get to enjoy a whole brand new listening perspective of the music, since you may listen to a CD you have listened to many times, but have never really focused on the comping patterns! (Same thing if studying bass lines for walking bass for example). Besides pianists, drummers can be a great source of comping patterns, especially on trio piano-less albums.

There is also the technical aspect of it that can be challenging, since chord phrases can be difficult to play. The best approach for me has been isolating any phrase i like, then playing it chromatically up and down the neck in all keys (with a metronome once i get the phrase going). This way you master the phrase, and also the ability to quickly see it and find it no matter the key.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Lift a rhythm and fit chords to the rhythm. If you’re paying attention you can kind of fit the shape of the chords too. Like you might not be able to grab exactly what’s happening but your ears can usually tell you quick if it’s a home chord or an approach chord. So you can copy the placement of those approach chords too.

[mr. beaumont]

Here's a smorgasbord of comping rhythms to lift.

[jamiehenderson1993]

Here's a smorgasbord of comping rhythms to lift.

The video appears to not be available?

[mr. beaumont]

Hmmm, are you not in the US?

It's Paul Desmond/Ed Bickert doing "Things Ain't What They Used to Be."

I consider Ed to be the best guitar comper in well, jazz history.

[jamiehenderson1993]

Just searched it up, and that sounds brilliant! Exactly the style I love! Thanks.

[AllanAllen]

Hmmm, are you not in the US?

It's Paul Desmond/Ed Bickert doing "Things Ain't What They Used to Be."

I consider Ed to be the best guitar comper in well, jazz history.

Wow, a whole new album of Desmond/Bickert to me!

[mr. beaumont]

Wow, a whole new album of Desmond/Bickert to me!

There's a few live ones out, they're all absolute must hears, IMHO.