The Summer of Rhythm Guitar 2024

[Webby]

You guys Sound great on those thinner picks. I can't pull it off though. I've been using Dunlop big stubby 3mm picks for ages. I play with a strong attack, and these just seem to work for me. Although they turn to dust pretty quickly. The indent for the thumb also helps me to keep it in place.


It's interesting how people get equally great results with thin and thick picks.

[AllanAllen]

Well.... my silent room is quite a different atmosphere than alongside a big band. I might change things up in that situation. I use an amp and my Epiphone archtop with the big band. I'm still trying to get my head around that whole situation.... Lots of fun, but really hard.

[mr. beaumont]

Well.... my silent room is quite a different atmosphere than alongside a big band. I might change things up in that situation. I use an amp and my Epiphone archtop with the big band. I'm still trying to get my head around that whole situation.... Lots of fun, but really hard.

Yeah, in an actual band situation I might think different.

Interesting thing is in my experiments, thicker picks are not that much louder out front...

But they ARE louder to me while playing.

And in a loud band that can be very important

[AllanAllen]

working through new big band charts. Added a little embellishment on the intro, won’t do that with the band.

[Mick-7]

Personally I like the felt ukulele picks best, such a mellow tone

Are you using the Freddie Green approach with these big band charts, Allan?

[AllanAllen]

Personally I like the felt ukulele picks best, such a mellow tone

Are you using the Freddie Green approach with these big band charts, Allan?

I’m using the one bar at a time seat of my pants approach.

[mr. beaumont]

I look at big band charts like this, with odd numbers of bars per line, and I think "they really do hate us, don't they?"

[AllanAllen]

I look at big band charts like this, with odd numbers of bars per line, and I think "they really do hate us, don't they?"

It's nuts. I need to go through my book and highlight all the D.S. so I can find them when I get to the end of the chart. I should probably put it in alphabetical order too, instead of order I printed them. lol

Did you catch the last line?

[mr. beaumont]

Did you catch the last line?

The printer didn't

This tune is actually a pretty simple "gospel" kind of form. If I were playing this I'd probably concentrate on the parts where the rhythm is specified, the "hits" if you will, and then in the 4 to the bar sections I might ignore a lot of those chords and just play the tune.

[AllanAllen]

The printer didn't

This tune is actually a pretty simple "gospel" kind of form. If I were playing this I'd probably concentrate on the parts where the rhythm is specified, the "hits" if you will, and then in the 4 to the bar sections I might ignore a lot of those chords and just play the tune.

That's good to hear because I decided the same thing after working out grips for those 4 to the bar parts, then playing along to a recording and thinking nobody can hear the guitar hitting all these chords under 12 horns.

Interested on what Webby's take will be.

[Mick-7]

It's nuts. I need to go through my book and highlight all the D.S. so I can find them when I get to the end of the chart. I should probably put it in alphabetical order too, instead of order I printed them. lol

It's been a very long time since I played in a big band but I remember having to dissect some of the charts to understand why the arranger had written those particular chords. It was often not clear from the guitar part alone, I'd need to see the piano and/or horn parts too to get the big picture. Doing that allowed me to find shortcuts - simpler chord voicings and/or fewer chords. After all, no one really pays attention to what the guitarist in a big band is doing unless he's obviously screwing up or until it's his turn to solo - it's a lesson in humility.

[Webby]

Interested on what Webby's take will be.

I'l do my best!

I think there is a great bit by John Clayton about approaching a chart in his book "Big Band Bass", which is a great read by the way!

If I'm handed something like that in a rehearsal I think it's about surviving first, so I think it's important to get the priorities right.

I'm going to specify this to traditional rhythm guitar, some of this translates to other styles, but not everything.

So in pure survival mode, here are some of my "dirty street-style rhythm guitar hacks":

Leave out the Kicks: (this is if you don't feel sure getting them right). Chances are that the Horns, or even the Drums will be playing them, and you won't be heard anyway.
Often times arrangers also just really don't know how to write for guitar. One example I can remember was a cart that eplicitly asked for FG-Style comping, and then had kicks written out during a loud tutti passage matching what the horns were playing. Bass and Drums kept on walking though. In that context it's not like I'm adding something to the horn-phrase, you only notice that the pulse gets lost for two bars. This might be a pet peeve of mine, but I just hate that feel of the rhythm dropping at random because of stuff like that. A look at the drum and bass charts (or at lest the players faces) might help decide if it makes sense to play a kick.

This is especially true, if it's a "Piano/Guitar" chart.

Reduce the Chords: I think that section two bars before letter B is a great example. It's cool to get them right, but when it's about just getting through the tune it's often cool to just focus on the chords on 1 and 3 (chances are they are the more important ones). If you take that phrase /Bb7 E7 Eb7 A7/ would turn to just /Bb7 Eb7/, and if you look at the chart again the left out chords are just chromatic approaches, so leaving them out doesn't hurt too bad. The more you do it, the more ou can trust our ear, when a chord change really needs to happen. A lot of it is just decoration.

Dirty Secrets: If I really get lost I'll keep on playing muted quarter notes. You're at least keeping the pulse going on like that, which (in my book) should always be the main focus. And the chance that nobody notices is pretty high (I'm speaking out of experience there!). You can also try to just keep hittin' the 3rd string and switching to improvising a guideline, when you get lost in the changes. Just following oyur ear and switching from a chordal approach to thinking horizontal.

Fast kicks with changing chords can be dificult to fret. Just playing octaves (instead of full chords) can sound a lot like playing the chords.

These are just the first things that came to my mind.

It's been a very long time since I played in a big band but I remember having to dissect some of the charts to understand why the arranger had written those particular chords. It was often not clear from the guitar part alone, I'd need to see the piano and/or horn parts too to get the big picture. Doing that allowed me to find shortcuts - simpler chord voicings and/or fewer chords. After all, no one really pays attention to what the guitarist in a big band is doing unless he's obviously screwing up or until it's his turn to solo - it's a lesson in humility.

This is great advice actually!



@AllanAllen: I think you sound great on that clip you posted!

Paul

[Webby]

Just found that part from John Claytons Book:

[AllanAllen]

Band chart questions seem on topic for this thread…

Bar 20, B+7(b5)

WTF does this even mean?

Second page has a B+7(b9) so maybe the First One is a typo?

[mr. beaumont]

Band chart questions seem on topic for this thread…

Bar 20, B+7(b5)

WTF does this even mean?

Second page has a B+7(b9) so maybe the First One is a typo?

To me, it means play an A on the 4th string, maybe a D# on the 3rd.

Even more egregious is the E major chords in the next line that look like Eb's because the genius who did the typesetting couldn't draw a damn 6.

[AllanAllen]

I also don’t like the mi7(b5) instead of ø we have a clean symbol for that.

[Mick-7]

Some arrangers are rather clueless about guitar voicings, what can and can't be played on the instrument, I'd guess that's the case here. I'd want to see the piano player's chart.

But I'd think F9, the tritone sub of your mystery chord:

For example:
x-2-3-2-4-3 (F9/B = B7b5/b13)
or
x-2-1-2-1-3 (F9/B, F9#11)
or
x-2-1-2-1-1 (F7/B, F7b5)

But you really only need to play one altered tone, F or G, as I said: F7/F9

[mr. beaumont]

I also don’t like the mi7(b5) instead of ø we have a clean symbol for that.

Agreed.

[AllanAllen]

I wish I had time to learn MuseScore so I could rewrite these and make everything uniform.

Add that to my ever growing to-do list.

[starjasmine]

I'd listen to what's going on in the rest of the arrangement and choose the subset of notes that "matter" or "sound best."

• These chords might just be the same thing the piano has, which reflects what the horns are doing, none of which you necessarily need to play.
• If you really want to play the b5 and #5, you could omit the root to make it less difficult, but it would still be a good stretch. Let's face it, bassist has the root covered if not the piano and maybe even the bones.
• If you try reeeeally hard (especially if you have big hands or short scale or some fortuitous combo of both) you can wrap your thumb onto the 6th string to play the root.

Good luck with that one!
EDIT: I like Mick-7's idea (F9) better than bullets 2 and 3

[pawlowski6132]

I think of B+ as B augmented meaning a sharp five. B+7 would mean to add a dominant seventh.

B+7(b5) would therefore mean to also include a flat fifth.

I guess enharmonically, You could think of the Sharp fifth here as a flat six so in other words an alternate way to notate this cord would be B7(b5, b6).

Don't ask me how to play that.

Band chart questions seem on topic for this thread…

Bar 20, B+7(b5)

WTF does this even mean?

Second page has a B+7(b9) so maybe the First One is a typo?

[AllanAllen]

I think of B+ as B augmented meaning a sharp five. B+7 would mean to add a dominant seventh.

B+7(b5) would therefore mean to also include a flat fifth.

I guess enharmonically, You could think of the Sharp fifth here as a flat six so in other words an alternate way to notate this cord would be B7(b5, b6).

Don't ask me how to play that.

That doesn’t make sense though. There are plenty of dom7 chords without an add7. Music tends to make sense, it’s why I like it so much.

[AllanAllen]

Piano chart didn’t help. Bass has a B octave. Melody is a whole note C on that bar.

I could probably drop out based on this.



Looking further, skipping saxophones, that’s too much transposing this early in the day.

Trombones are B D# A C so yeah, that should say b9.

[mr. beaumont]

Don't overthink it. It's a B dominant going to an Emaj in the next bar. Play the 7th or 3/7.

[Mick-7]

I wish I had time to learn MuseScore so I could rewrite these and make everything uniform.

Add that to my ever growing to-do list.

Music notation software is too much work if you only want to write chord charts, I've been using this shareware app, Chordwriter, for 20 years now (no longer available) .

ChordWriter-v.2

The diagrams look like this:


This app has good reviews, but it isn't free: Neck Diagrams-Download

Trombones are B D# A C so yeah, that should say b9.

So C Melodic Minor voicings.... (b9, #9, b5, #5)