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Sorry. I think I sowed the seed ie. my wanting info on the chord every note info which took the thread off piste.
Originally Posted by Yka59
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05-18-2024 12:22 PM
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If op walks away from a thread that tends to happen. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Basically, jazzguitar.be threads go like this: Originally Posted by AllanAllen
OP: What's the quickest route from Chicago to Atlanta?
Poster 1: Atlanta's so muggy this time of year
Poster 2: you should go to Door County Wisconsin, now that's beautiful in late Spring
Poster 3: Wisconsin? Fuck the Packers. Go Lions!
Poster 4: Lions suck. But that Detroit style pizza ain't bad
Poster 5: Hey, we're getting off topic, we were talking about Door County
Poster 6: Hey, where's the OP?
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Lol at poster 5, calling to revert back on topic.. to a tangent. That's accurate.
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I don't really think, with all due respect to him, the OP has much more to do here. He admits to not knowing music and only doing TAB. He chose a book which has definitely been criticised for being too chordy. In fact, that was the very basis of his starting this thread, because he realised himself things weren't right.
He's said now he needs to start with something a lot simpler and basic. As I said before, if only I could show him a book that would give him what he needed to learn but I've no experience of CM books. I wish I had.
There are lots on Google and Amazon but, not knowing them, it would be foolish merely to point to one just to be helpful. In fact, that's the worst kind of help you can get. That's why, if he's reading this, I would definitely go to a decent music/guitar store and find one that resonates with him and that he can see will be properly useful to him.
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Ah yes, the old Jazz Guitar Chord Melody section of the local music store. Originally Posted by ragman1
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I wouldn't ask how to get to anywhere on a jazz guitar forum, not even a jazz guitar store. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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OP, if you're still out there: take lessons from a teacher who can play chord melody well.
Chord melody is an advanced skill and you don't yet have the basics down, so trying to learn this from a book is going to be very difficult. A good teacher can assess your strengths and weaknesses to get you where you want to go more quickly than if you waste years dabbling around in one book or another, becoming increasingly frustrated and no closer to your goal.
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I didn't play through the whole thing, but it looks like nearly all of it can be played as a series of shapes where you play the top line with your pinky. In cases where there are 5-note voicings, bar a couple of string (he doesn't show fingerings, but I assume the shapes involved are presented elsewhere in the book). You can pick/strum the chord on every 1/8th note or beat as written, or just hold the shape and move your pinky to play the melody.
Honestly, it's not crazily overly chordy. It's actually pretty logical (at least the part of the example I played through), at least as an exercise. But the idea that a chord under every note is somehow is not valid? I'm mean come on ... Van Eps, Ted Greene, Howard Alden, Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Pasquale Grasso, etc., etc., they all do it a good portion of the time. If it's all you do, sure, an entire performance of it can be tiring (while simultaneously impressive), and I'd rather hear Joe Pass (who rarely does it) solo than pretty much any other player. But it's certainly something worth exploring.
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That's why I asked the OP what the books were. I've always been impressed by the chord per note style. Rather Barry Harris in a way. Originally Posted by John A.
I guess it could be argued that regardless of how much jazz theory one knows, and if you are a reasonably good player to physically play the written chords, and you have time on your hands you could pull off these written arrangements and sound credible.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Which in most cases will consist of 2 or 3 books - and that may be an exaggeration.
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I was thinking it would be closer to an old book of John Mayer transcriptions Originally Posted by Mick-7
Which in most cases will consist of 2 or 3 books - and that may be an exaggeration.
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Yka59 -
I don't know where you are but I come from a seaside town in the UK. There are several really good music stores there and, as far as I recall, all of them stock an extensive range of books, scores, tutorials, etc, for a range of instruments. Guitar is popular so they tend to focus on that. The books are current editions by current authors, like on Amazon, and also include reprints of older but popular ones like the Mel Bay and Hal Leonard series.
The point, obviously, about going to a store is that you can browse and have a good look at what you're buying whereas on the internet it's all a bit pot luck. As I said, that's just a town on the south coast. In London and other major cities you can get anything you want. So I don't know what those guys above are chortling about. Perhaps books are a lost cause in the States.
I see getting a teacher has been recommended and, technically, it's not a bad move. The drawback is that they're expensive and finding a good one is very, very hard, especially when it comes to jazz. Most of them teach classical and pop.
So good luck with it all. Seek and ye shall find. If you want something badly enough life has a habit of helping you out.
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Yes and no. I acknowledge that it is likely easier to find a good jazz teacher for in-person instruction in a major metropolitan area than in a rural one, and we don't know the OP's location. Originally Posted by ragman1
However, online teaching has put world-class players into the teaching business for anyone with a decent internet connection. Want to study with Herbie Hancock, Jonathan Kreisberg, Martin Miller, or Bruce Forman? You can. Last time I checked (admittedly a while ago), all of these players were giving online lessons. With COVID receding and touring opening up, live online lessons may now be harder to come by, but I'm sure all of the canned video that these players have created is still available.
Now... if you are a real beginner and need hands-on tutorial regarding mechanical technique, online is not so great for that. But it sounds like this player has a lot of the basics down.
Agree that private lessons require more cash outlay, but consider that money spent on a fruitless approach can be replaced but time spent on the same cannot...
Just some thoughts ...
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You people have to be yanking my lariat.
I've literally *never* heard anyone, ever play "Misty" as anything other than a a medium-up tune.
Not live, anyway. No, nobody does it copying Groove Holmes's arrangement, but similar tempo. Not in NYC, not in Paris, not in nowhere...maybe I heard some torch singer try to sing it a few times dead slow, but, I never heard it otherwise than medium-up, as an instrumental version.
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^ Dur dur, how about the actual composer of the tune playing the literal definitive version?
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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This has to be the first version I ever heard.
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Hi
Havn´t read all answers here but on this site you´ll find an answer:
Fly Me To The Moon Jazz Guitar Lesson - Melody & Solo
There are several other tunes in that blog.
Free Jazz Guitar Lessons
Generally just play a chord pr bar (or everytime it changes)
Good luck
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Right under our noses!! Originally Posted by Uffe Steen
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Hi. Thank you for an answer that's related to my question, you are one of the few :-) I started of with jazzguitar.be and now I want to go on further that's why I got the book that holds standards that I like. :-) Because this website is 10+. No offense to the others whom seemed to have some inside discussion were I'm totally lost! And just for your information, I live in Prague, Czech Republic and there really isn't any chord melody books in the music/book shops here, surprise but a fact. Originally Posted by Uffe Steen
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Not surprised at all really...this stuff is pretty "niche." It's our niche, though. Originally Posted by Yka59
I think the big thing to takeaway here is that any book is just giving you one perspective...it's up to you to take what you can from it, and set aside what doesn't work.
In the meantime, as a person who plays a lot in this style, I can tell you that learning other people's arrangements is probably a dead end...the real key to unlocking this style of play is really knowing your chords, be able to play any chord you need in at least 3 different spots on the neck, and know how to put any melody note you need on top of them. This is stuff you can work out yourself without a book, for the most part
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Chord Melody books are great for stealing an idea or two here and there but they are a trap. Learning to create your own arrangements is the path to enlightenment
I recommend you check out Barry Greene’s video “How I create Chord Melody arrangements”. $15 for endless inspiration.
Using a lead sheet for the standard “Polka Dots and Moonbeams” Barry gives you the tools to create your own.
How I Create Chord Melody Arrangements - Essential - Barry Greene Video Lessons
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Still a lot of very fine players have done all sorts of things with this tune, including the composer. I don't know where things like "forbidden" even come from. And "rules" like this really just come from our preferences and our perceptions of the song and jazz tradition. But in fact "Misty" was originally an instrumental that Garner composed on a plane flight. His own playing of it over the years is far from the tender ballad most of us imagine, that came after the words were composed (by someone else) and matched to the already-widely-played tune. A look at the history of performances of this tune reveals a range of approaches. So while we personally might like to keep players coloring within the lines, jazz players, of all musicians, are not the people to insist on something like that. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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For chordmelody I think the main thing is, basically, always knowing what interval the melody (top) note forms in relation to the root of the chord and filling in the gap (when/where you want to) according to what's available under your fingers (knowing chord inversions, extensions etc. really helps BTW). Also, you can chenge the quality of the chord (reharmonise etc.). These are the fundamentals and you don't even need books for that... but you do need your ear and chords + chord inversions and extensions (though books are great, too).
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Yka59 -
Okay, you're in Czechoslovakia, I understand, so no CM books. Also, do not go for Barry Greene (sorry, alltunes). Barry is an extremely advanced player. His stuff is not, repeat not, for beginners.
If you look at the 'How I create chord melody' site, the writing there says:
'Interested in taking your chord melody playing to the next level? In this one hour masterclass, I discuss several methods including the dominant, chromatic and diatonic approaches. You'll also find out about other topics like counterpoint and various techniques for spicing things up in these arrangements!'
You're not at the first level yet so it's virtually impossible that this one is for you. Look for something that starts at the beginning. Please!
This might do it, see what you think, it looks clear enough to me.
Chord Melody Guitar: Best Starter Guide For 2021 - FretDojo
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