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Mostly for Allan, I'll do some more of these and post them here.
This a sort of page of notes for a book I may write. This is an examination of a sort of voice leading skeleton that forms the basis of some well known standard melodies. There's a bunch of these. It's a bit like Jerry Coker's Hearing the Changes or the LEGO Bricks book, but rooted more in voice leading/counterpoint rather than chord symbols.
I want to ground it in jazz repertoire and practical improvisation but drawing from what I've learned from historical (c18) improvisation approaches.
Sorry, no tabs yet ;-)
EDIT: corrected some mistakes and added a tune
Last edited by Christian Miller; 02-26-2024 at 05:36 PM.
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02-26-2024 11:23 AM
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Hopefully I'll get a cancellation this evening so that I can dive in....or else I may have a coffee and burn the midnight candle.
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What I love about Christian is that he could get my eyes completely glazing over with those first 3 lines, and then he hits me with the "not just curly wig music" line and I'm back in, excitedly telling myself "ok, let's play through this!"
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Other good example tunes would include The Serpent's Tooth, Do a Deer and Memories of You
Any others?
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Fantastic. Don't hesitate to include your rapier wit. I want the Full Monte!
Alan
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That's Full Montes, Alan.
Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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Opps, nevermind. You did it correctly ;-)
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Must try the full monte on this one.
G / G# / (A-7 - Bm7) / (C - Dm7) / (A-/E - Fmaj7) / D7/F# / G
Hope nobody walks past
Gotta put the kids to bed now. Hopefully won't be too tired later otherwise I'll try to do more tomorrow.
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The melody in this case doesn’t quite follow the voice leading schema I don’t think? Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Must try the full monte on this one.
G / G# / (A-7 - Bm7) / (C - Dm7) / (A-/E - Fmaj7) / D7/F# / G
Hope nobody walks past
Gotta put the kids to bed now. Hopefully won't be too tired later otherwise I'll try to do more tomorrow.
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Are you going for 5/3 6/3 throughout? Change the melody to suit Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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So … yeeessss? At least maybe for now. The examples I gave have the 5 alternating with 6 over the rising bass etc, and are fairly clear examples I think. You could probably abstract it more. Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Are you going for 5/3 6/3 throughout? Change the melody to suit
But I’m not seeing it here, it starts with a 6th and moves to a 5th in that first bar for instance, and that E is pretty much a pedal. I think I’d need to look at this one a little more to get a feel for it.
The same chord progression could have multiple voice leading schemas. An example of one that has a similar chord progression to Mean to Me etc but uses a different voice leading line would be Bewitched. That’s not a sequential melody but built from a pedal note and a moving lower voice.
Actually I feel like the key thing for the Monte is the ascending melodic sequence for at least two steps. In this case it’s sort of like a sequence but not quite.
Interesting - don’t know this tune. It looks more like bewitched? Moving top voice alternating with a pedal. Not sure what you’d call that. An oblique sequence?
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Now a tricky one is - is Ain’t Misbehaving one?
It feels like Montes to me, with the ascending sequence and all that, but doesn’t have the 5-6 thing going on. It’s just fifths. So not sure really.
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The pick up note is a D. You could put it on 1 and play 1& (DE). Finishes on a D too. Next bar E is 6. A7 starts with a 5 then...It kinda falls apart.
I must really revisit all this again. Not only in theory but compositionally as well.
These are great exercises to do. Tired now but will do more soon!
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It’s a different way to think Originally Posted by Liarspoker
The pick up note is a D. You could put it on 1 and play 1& (DE). Finishes on a D too. Next bar E is 6. A7 starts with a 5 then...It kinda falls apart.
I must really revisit all this again. Not only in theory but compositionally as well.
These are great exercises to do. Tired now but will do more soon!
Btw the 5-6 voice leading isn’t the only pattern that could be a Monte. There are some others. As soon as you put dim chords you end up losing the 6ths which is what we see with Ain’t Misbehaving.
You also get 5-3 like G on C#o7 going to F on Dm say. Very satisfying. Blackbird does it.
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Yes, I must read up on it again.
Also I have to write a short piece in Hungarian Minor for the MGH Patreon group. I might try a monte or a different schemata, or combine a few
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Reading that, I'd never really noticed the sexual undertone to "Do A Deer" before. Oscar Hammerstein also came up with "June Is Bustin' Out All Over" so maybe it was no accident. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
According to this guy, bestiality and sexuality was a common theme in Rodgers & Hammerstein musicals:
"Oklahoma!" is one of the dirtiest movie musicals of all time - Jason Cochran
Didn't mean to hijack your 'curly wig' thread, Christian. Nice stuff. Carry on!
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I don't think I'll be clicking on that link Originally Posted by PMB
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The diatonic version should be usable with any scale... Originally Posted by Liarspoker
I suppose you could also see it as a cycle 6 with the third chord missing.
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5
3 = Fifth Outside - Third Bottom
6
3 = Sixth Outside - Third Bottom
Is that what that means?
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Figured Bass Reduction isn't a recipe is it? I can't figure it out.
This is great work Christian. Thanks so much.Last edited by A. Kingstone; 02-27-2024 at 09:39 AM.
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Kind of depends but standard use is that we list the big numbers first regardless of the voicing. Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
So root position is always 5 3 (or just 5, or nothing)
And first inv is always 6 3 (or 6 for short)
A sixth chord is 6 5 3 (or 5 3 for short)
I haven’t used to much shorthand here, but the diatonic third is implied unless specified. (Might change that in the book to make it clearer.)
So 6-5 means 5 3 - 6 3.
The reduction 7-6 for Barry harris exercise implies shell voicings (7 3 - 6 3 in longhand.)
All intervals are diatonic unless altered
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If you start in with hemi-semi-demi quavers my brain will explode.
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Don’t worry,I have trouble telling a quaver from a crotchet. US system FTW Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
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hemi-demi-semi-quavers Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
Did you write a book Alan? I recall reading something to that effect?
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Originally Posted by Liarspoker
hemi-demi-semi-quavers
Did you write a book Alan? I recall reading something to that effect?
I did! I used bastardised Canadian English mind you.
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I'm totally confused by those numbers (5, 3, 6 etc). Do they have a name I can use to look up on wikipedia to better understand?
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