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I'm looking forward to your next video!
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
And I totally agree with you, that this is really woth to spend some time on!
Once I realized, that this stuff is also a lot about splitting up the frequencies in the rhythm section, so you're not getting in the way of each other it helped me a lot to structure my role in other styles too.
Image taken from Matt G. Buttermans thesis* about the role of the guitar in the count basie rhythm section, which can be downloaded here
*super interesting in-depth view on all of this stuff. I printed that whole thing and worked through it as a teenager
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05-09-2023 03:22 PM
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Yes, this is huge. And can definitely apply outside of this context. Originally Posted by Webby
I'm looking forward to your next video!
And I totally agree with you, that this is really woth to spend some time on!
Once I realized, that this stuff is also a lot about splitting up the frequencies in the rhythm section, so you're not getting in the way of each other it helped me a lot to structure my role in other styles too.
Image taken from Matt G. Buttermans thesis* about the role of the guitar in the count basie rhythm section, which can be downloaded here
*super interesting in-depth view on all of this stuff. I printed that whole thing and worked through it as a teenager
And of course the other thing, as Emily Remler said: "Nothing's corny if it swings."
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The month comes to a close...but doesn't. So much to do...so much more to learn...
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Thought I'd share a fun find, some phenomenal recording of some fantastic rhythm guitar playing. My study begins tomorrow!!!
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I had a gig last weekend and tried to record a little bit with my phone on the music stand.
So here's me sightreading through some weird Chick Webb tune:
Paul
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Sounds like that Allan Reuss style Jonathan Stout is into.
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Originally Posted by Webby
It seemed like you hung on chords or a riff for bars at a time. Am I hearing it right? I think at one point you stayed on a static chord for 8 or more bars. Am I making things too hard trying not to repeat myself?
I feel like a wave of reality just crashed over me.
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I can guarantee you I wasn't focussing on variation. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
This is just me literally sightreading through that chart for the first time, doing my best not to mess things up.
Paul
Edit:
I just checked the chart again, and you're totally right. There is one point where it stays on Ab for 6 Bars, and I 'm pretty sure I just stayed on the same voicing. I really don't want to make this Sound like I put that much thought into it at that moment (I did not! I' m sure I was only thinking about that kick on the 4), but listening to it again I'm not sure switching through different voicings would have sounded better. This is totally up to taste though. To me that part just feels more static. Not every gap has to be filled i guess.
Even with more preparation I don't worry too much about that stuff though. If I feel like filling up some space I'll do, if I don't I won't.
PaulLast edited by Webby; 05-23-2023 at 02:56 PM.
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I don't think I heard him hang that long, but there's a few stretches in that tune where a chord hangs around a bit.
It's easy to get too cute with this stuff, Webby here is doing it right...it's about RHYTHM first...everything else is gravy.
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I will go brave and send this out of my rythmn on the old D'a. I too have taken to playing the basic 4. It does help time. On the cheap recoding but one has to use what one has.
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Hello all.
I thought I'd revisit this thread as the Month of Rhythm Guitar became the Summer of Rhythm Guitar (with a healthy dose of Bossa) and now the Fall is calling me for...more Rhythm Guitar.
I've decided to report my "learnings." I still in no way feel I'm an expert here, but I think what I share could be helpful for some...so here are some musings, and then some chord shapes that I think are the most useful. And if you already know this stuff feel free to move on, but should you be starting out with this style I hope it is helpful.
RULE OF RHTYHM GUITAR. (Ok, more like just guidelines)
Play the 6th, 4th and 3rd string when possible, or rather, at least FRET them. More on that later.
The middle strings are the most important, particularly the 4th string. But it sounds good to play more strings, even if you don't hear the pitches.
The 2 and 4 are slightly accented, but better to achieve that by playing more strings on those beats, or changing the position of the picking hand slightly, with 2 and 4 striking a little further back (1 and 3 being right about the bottom of the neck) than to try playing harder on those beats. It's not polka.
At fast tempos, the 4th string alone (with neighboring strings muted) can sound great. Also works if there's a bigger group playing. Bigger the band, smaller the chords. Faster the tempo, smaller the chords.
The 4th string can be thought of as a quarter note counter melody, but before you get cute with that, play the damn tune correctly.
Voicings can have a root, 3rd, or 5th on the bottom generally. Voicings with a 7th on the bottom exist, but they are not my favorite.
The left hand fingers kind of "bounce." They might stay down a little longer on beats 1 and 3. But aim for evenness first. Just as it isn't polka, it also isn't "le pompe."
Diminished chords can help you move between voicings, but getting too busy defeats the objective.
If you have more than one bar of a chord, use the second to help move to the next chord, if possible. Jumping around all over the neck doesn't sound great and it can affect accuracy. There's always exceptions, yes...
You CAN play a fifth string root, or a note on the second string, but why?
Maj6 and major triad are almost always better than maj7 for a I chord. The maj 7 voicing 5/3/7 works because there's no root rubbing against the 7th. The R/7/3 voicing kind of sucks.
There is NO SIN in playing a triad. Not every chord needs color.
Even if you're only "playing" one or two notes, it sounds good to fret the "correct" note on the sixth string. A muted string with the finger in the actual chord sounds better than a random muted note.
Dominant chords-- it's not really our job to play all the fun extensions. Play the tritone, maybe the root or 5th. b5 and #5 on the bottom isn't usually the best choice.
Minor chords, m6 or minor triad for tonic minor, usually.
Thick picks aren't necessarily better.
And get the back of the guitar OFF your body.
Archtops are the best. A smaller bodied flattop works surprisingly well.
Here's some charts:
Probably all common knowledge, but hey...maybe it helps somebody.
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You playing with anybody?
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Hopefully you one of these Thursdays! I'll come down and play rhythm for y'all.
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You're welcome anytime. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Really like the videos in this thread. Very authentic sounding. I love all of the movement between chords and need to learn how to get a handle on that.
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I just had some time to spend on a longer train ride, and got to re-listen "Songs from lonely avenue" by the Brian Setzer orchestra. Brian is doing a pretty good rhythm job, and he's actually playing a vintage Stromberg just like Freddie. Just wanted to share a tune, because I think modern big band recordings with proper rhythm guitar are rare, and the whole Album is beautifully recorded. The arrangements by Frank Comstock are great too.
He's playing full chords though, but he's playing without a piano. What I really like is how well He matches up his quarter notes with the Bass.
Paul
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I had a gig last night, so here's some rhythm with my band:
Paul
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It's nice to see, Paul, that you make a thick highlighting on the repetition marks on your chart. I do the same. Don't know how often I overlooked those marks in the past and played further on...
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Wow… a 5 hour gig. That’s impressive
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Funny story on that. I had just strung up an arch top I had made and it was late at night. I was tired, and the finishing had not gone well. I started playing the guitar, and it sounded just OK. I had promised this guitar to charity auction, and I was a little let down. I kept playing, and then suddenly I noticed a richness in the tone I hadn't noticed before. I was particularly noticeable when playing some bluesy rhythm. I tend to fret full drop 2's on the bottom four strings even if, like you, I don't always strike all the strings (but that's for another story). It sounded deep and rich. I perked up. What was this? Where was this tone coming from? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
As soon as perked up, the tone flattened out again. I was crushed. Convinced I was imagining things, I settled back into the guitar. Probably better said I slumped back into the guitar... and there it was again! I couldn't tell if my mind was playing tricks on me. I focused and tried to hear it clearly, and as soon as I did it disappeared. This went through three or four cycles before I could figure it out.
I assume most of you know what was happening. Depressed and tired I had slumped into the guitar pulling my belly from the back of the guitar. Every time I focused I would straighten up pulling the guitar to me. On this particular guitar the back was very active and was supporting the tone beautifully, but when pressed against a pillow of blubber it was dampened.
So, yeah. At least on some guitars, get the back off your body!
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Yeah, I try to always have my charts marked up. Better safe than sorry, right? Originally Posted by bluenote61
It's nice to see, Paul, that you make a thick highlighting on the repetition marks on your chart. I do the same. Don't know how often I overlooked those marks in the past and played further on...
I think I never played that long before, but that was a special event. That Lindy-Hop community has been booking us for so many years, and this was their 10th anniversary. It was quite demanding, but still lots of fun! Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Paul
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Any recommended resources for working on all the movement happening in some of these videos? Walking up to the next chord, or adding some voicing variation when the chord lasts for awhile. I hear some players changing nearly every beat.
I understand walking up diatonically if you’re on the tonic or playing a diminished chord on a V for a b9, but that’s about it.Last edited by diode; 12-11-2023 at 09:51 AM.
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Extremely basic exercise for you. If you're going from say, minor VI to a major IV, when you want to move change the VI to major and go down the neck chromatically. You get the idea? Change the chord you're on to the type (major, minor, dominant) of the target chord and walk over to it. Check out Don't Get Around Much Anymore for an example of this in a tune. Originally Posted by diode
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