A Month of Rhythm Guitar

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, basically, there is an Em triad in a Cmaj7, so it's not even really a "sub" I guess.

I've always been really into chord synonyms when comping, getting as many different uses out of shapes as I can...this swing stuff is that on steroids kinda...every shape can be so many things...

Alright, so where to from here? A different tune? try this one with 2 note chords and eventually a 1 one tenor line?

Trying to find chord synonyms is how I get end up in the weeds when I'm working out a song. Ever since I found Bm7b5 is a rootless G9. I haven't found any as useful as that one, but I keep trying.

[mr. beaumont]

Trying to find chord synonyms is how I get end up in the weeds when I'm working out a song. Ever since I found Bm7b5 is a rootless G9. I haven't found any as useful as that one, but I keep trying.

The rootless 9/ m7b5/ minor 6 connection is one of the most useful things in chord-dom.

I guess the real trick is not getting hung up on synonyms and really just looking at how to create nice leading...

So I think of songs as having "movements" in them...so for example the C section here is 2 4-bar movements. The melody is kind of dictating that to me. So over each movement, I'm trying to create movement in half or whole steps, in this case, downward. So when I was coming up with this, I tried not to think about EVERY possibility, but rather, ok, I'm starting here, where's the closest place I can grab the next chord?

[pcjazz]

Interesting...so with the 10ths, the opposite of accentuating the inner voices, now we're muting the inners and hearing the outers...I'll have to try.

Do you know any players who used this a lot?

I think you can hear it all over the place, not so much as a consistent comping strategy but as a way of connecting chords and building movement over static progressions and turnarounds. It sounds very Basie to me.

[AllanAllen]

for C major the 10th is x3xx5x they are really simple, it's built into the standard E or A shape chord a very nice way to sound like you know what you're doing. Play diatonic chords but only hit the root and third. I think they're at the end of Jesus by The Velvet Underground.

Sixths would be the comping on the Allman Brothers version of Stormy Monday (Live at the Filmore) or the end lick (during the fadeout) on Born in Chicago by Butterfield Blues Band (on their first album).

A bunch of non jazz examples, but you'll hear it.

[mr. beaumont]

I definitely know how to play them, im just not sure I've heard them used in the context of swing rhythm guitar much.

[Christian Miller]

Re the light pick thing…. I’ve not had a huge opportunity to pick up a guitar over the past few days (except teaching) but I spent a few minutes strumming my Loar with a light pick and my increasing feeling is ‘where have you been all my life?’ My feeling is you get a lot of ringing upper harmonics in the sound.

im going to have to work up some old school arrangements with this….

I think I was coming from the gypsy jazz thing where we bash the strings with breeze blocks, but the strings in this case are way lighter (.10 or .11 albeit higher tension than electrics)

[Christian Miller]

I think you can hear it all over the place, not so much as a consistent comping strategy but as a way of connecting chords and building movement over static progressions and turnarounds. It sounds very Basie to me.

10ths being the backbone of left hand stride piano…

[rlrhett]

Not rhythm guitar, but I assume you know that 10ths are the foundation of Martin Taylor’s solo guitar arranging/improvisation. He teaches playing 10ths and building melody notes on top of them.


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[Christian Miller]

Another property of 10ths being that if you add a 5th, 6th or 7th in the middle you have open triads and shell voicings. Add two voices and you have drop 2’s. All of which are our basic vocabulary for jazz chords…

A cycle 4 can be voice of as a series of stepwise descending tenths with alternating 7ths and 6ths in the inner voice. This voice leading scheme has been used afaik since the early 17th century… and in fact probably that’s where cycle 4 came from … but it’s also very familiar from jazz rhythm guitar.

so much of guitar harmony is based on 10ths.

[AllanAllen]

Still no examples of comping with 10ths. Just discussion of how important and useful they are.... maybe they aren't so important if nobody can post a clip of it in jazz context.

[Christian Miller]

I did a lesson on tenths a while back

[pcjazz]

Christian's video is a very good introduction to things one can do with tenths on the guitar. Barry Harris taught inner-voice movement in tenths on both 7 and 8 note scales. The most in-depth treatment I am aware of is vol. 3, chapter 1, of Van Eps' Harmonic Mechanisms, "Articulated Tenths". See also chapter 2, "Articulated Sixths". It's hard to come up with specific illustrative examples because tenths are everywhere in this music, especially on guitar. Van Eps calls the tenth interval "one of the mainstays of harmony, a virtual backbone ... The tenth intervals are almost always present in three and four note open voicings." I like to use "naked" tenths (and sixths) to move between more complex chords when playing swing rhythm, for example in turnbacks and walking lines. They are also great for fast tempos, easy to grab and move while stating the basic harmony.

[AllanAllen]

[QUOTE=pcjazz;1261880]Christian's video is a very good introduction to things one can do with tenths on the guitar. Barry Harris taught inner-voice movement in tenths on both 7 and 8 note scales. The most in-depth treatment I am aware of is vol. 3, chapter 1, of Van Eps' Harmonic Mechanisms, "Articulated Tenths". See also chapter 2, "Articulated Sixths". It's hard to come up with specific illustrative examples because tenths are everywhere in this music, especially on guitar. Van Eps calls the tenth interval "one of the mainstays of harmony, a virtual backbone ... The tenth intervals are almost always present in three and four note open voicings." I like to use "naked" tenths (and sixths) to move between more complex chords when playing swing rhythm, for example in turnbacks and walking lines. They are also great for fast tempos, easy to grab and move while stating the basic harmony.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so we are talking about a tool to toss in, and not straight 10th comping. I was way off in the weeds. Thanks

[dot75]

Again - not rhythm gtr but Martin Taylor's 10ths 101

[pcjazz]

Okay, so we are talking about a tool to toss in, and not straight 10th comping. I was way off in the weeds. Thanks

That’s it, see post #28 above.

[mr. beaumont]

Not debating the usefulness of 10ths, just sticking to the basics here before getting saucy

[rlrhett]

Also, I’m sure it is self evident, but we are not talking about comping with 10ths when you are playing with a bass player.


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[pcjazz]

Also, I’m sure it is self evident, but we are not talking about comping with 10ths when you are playing with a bass player.


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Depends which octave you play them in.

[mr. beaumont]

You guys do realize what kind of rhythm guitar I'm talking about here, right?

[rlrhett]

Something like these guys?




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[mr. beaumont]

No dude. MALCOLM YOUNG.

[rlrhett]

Yeah, OK. We all aspire to the greats. But keep it achievable. Maybe think Izzy Stradlin.


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[mr. beaumont]

This week I've decided to dissect "Take the A Train," and to try a chorus of two note chords, and a chorus of one note chords. Then time to ponder and explore the benefits of each...

[Reg]

Cool thread ... I'll add vid and go from there

[mr. beaumont]

Cool to have Reg aboard, this video has a bunch of great ideas, even though it's a different thing than what I'm after.

Here's some materials for A Train. Ill do a playthrough later today.