Comping with a piano player

[JazzIsGood]

Great example here of piano and guitar working together and not stepping on each other.

Check it out at 56 seconds, the piano player is taking over and then decides NAAHHH I'll let the guitar keep going.

[AllanAllen]

The best way I found to comp with a piano is to stop playing. I saw Bernstein do it and copied it because it’s easy.

[Jimmy Smith]

^ Booooo. Have 1 instrument play time and the other play more lick based. It isn't necessary for 1 to always lay out.

[AllanAllen]

I think the guys I’ve played with are used to playing alone… without a metronome. Learning how to fill all the space in a wobbly meter.

Anyway, OPs video was really great

[RLetson]

I've heard the guitar instructors at Augusta's Swing Week workshops say of Robert Redd that he plays really well with guitarists, never intruding on their space. (I understand from one of my playing partners that this is not a universal trait.) He's also just generally a fine player and a nice guy. A memorable moment: at one of the nightly dances, he started a tune in the wrong key, but instead of restarting, he modulated his intro around through several keys until he got to the right one. The rest of the band loved it--and it was entirely musical.

[JazzIsGood]

Yes, agree with Allen, I often don't play at all when piano is comping. On the rare occasions that I do play it's 2 notes and more of a rhythmic device. I've heard Benson play full big 4-5 note chords with piano and for some reason it works great. I've always thought it has something to do with the rhythms he's playing, but I don't really know, I'm honestly not that advanced. Still learning.

BTW that's not me in the video. It's Ilya Lushtak. I assume he's one of the best out there because lots of the old legend guys from the Hard Bop era pick him to play guitar. He's got a record with Frank Wess and Hank Jones from a few years back and I've listened to him ever since. Come to find out he also played for a while with Charles Earland and I love Charles Earland (organ player). So I've been eating up all the new Ilya Lushtak videos that have been coming out in the last few weeks.

But back to the comping thing, I've played at some open jams lately and heard a lot of piano/guitar clashing and it really ruins the vibe. This really should be the first thing they teach you in jazz guitar lessons, but apparently it's not. People who are decent jazz guitar players will just shit all over the song with loud comping and huge chords over a piano player. Neither of them is listening and it sounds like crap. It's become a pet peeve of mine. So I was excited to see a situation where guitar and piano are so tuned in to each other that they comp one at a time and are in communication about the whole issue of comping.

[Jimmy Smith]

But back to the comping thing, I've played at some open jams lately and heard a lot of piano/guitar clashing and it really ruins the vibe. This really should be the first thing they teach you in jazz guitar lessons, but apparently it's not. People who are decent jazz guitar players will just shit all over the song with loud comping and huge chords over a piano player. Neither of them is listening and it sounds like crap. It's become a pet peeve of mine. So I was excited to see a situation where guitar and piano are so tuned in to each other that they comp one at a time and are in communication about the whole issue of comping.

Yep, moronical behavior is bad. That's a valid peev. Also a peev of mine is the idea that piano and guitar can't comp successfully together. A lot of people think this. I mean how noob of a notion is this? Each instrument has control over how many notes they play, the register they play them in, and what rhythms they use. A ridiculously simple solution is 1 instrument, doesn't matter which, plays time in the mid range with fuller chords, and the other instrument riffs a little higher up with thinner chords.

[rpjazzguitar]

In groove based music with more or less regular rhythmic patterns in the comping, one chord instrument can focus on pulse and the other on ornamentation.

It's possible to have both playing pulse, but, sad to say, you have to both be very good at it. The idea can be to create one impressive rhythmic pattern out of the two instruments. I play with multiple pianists, one of whom will do that. The others don't think like that. Other times, it's two patterns but they work together. Listen to Djavan's original recording of Serrado to hear it.

Taking turns works but I always think it's a little jarring to the listener. And, I find that it takes a few bars for me to get used to (or adjust) the guitar comping sound after getting used to the piano sound.

If the pianist is doing "stick and jab" comping, the guitar can't follow it and may have difficulty even phrasing with it. So, the guitar, at that point, has to get simple and predictable to avoid chaos. On swing, e.g., and-of-four; Charleston rhythm; and-of-two + four. Legato on the changes. Something.

On average, the pianist does what he does and the guitar gets what's left. I think a strong rhythm guitarist can assert himself well enough to change that balance, but he has to be very good to do it.

[JazzIsGood]

One thing I like as a listener is when the next verse arrives, and some changes come with it. Maybe the drummer changes from brushes to ride cymbal, and guitar stops comping and piano takes over (or vice versa). It's nice to have some development and keep things interesting.