The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 51
  1. #1

    User Info Menu



    I have been trying to get this tune. It's one of my faves and already pretty jazzy to start with.
    Problem is that it doesn't seem to be suited to guitar, or at least I cannot seem to get the vibe of it.
    I think I know the progression, to me it seems like C#m G#m7 for the verses with room for some m7 m9 on C# for a little spicing up
    then the chorus seems to be AMaj7 G#m7 going to B in the final change before back to C#m in the verse.
    Problem is my playing makes it sound like a bloody flamenco! I don't know where I'm going wrong.
    The chorus doesn't flow well at all.
    Any advice on how to get the vibe of this would be appreciated. I know it's hard without a vid, however I am embarrassed enough about hearing my own playing without being publicly humiliated too, so no vid, just some direction if you can.
    If you can't then that's okay too, I understand I may be asking the impossible and if so I appologise for taking up your time.
    Oh, if the vid doesn't embed itself its spinning the wheel by GM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    You should reconsider posting a clip of yourself. You’ll get good feedback on exactly where you’re going wrong.

    Nobody is going to tease you. We all start from the same place. Never forget that.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    You should reconsider posting a clip of yourself. You’ll get good feedback on exactly where you’re going wrong.

    Nobody is going to tease you. We all start from the same place. Never forget that.
    I am aware of my own irrationality, something I am processing and hopefully dealing with.
    Right now I struggle with anyone listening in (except my grandkids, who are both better than I on their respective instruments).
    If others are around I switch to a solid body without an amp. So as helpful to me as it would be, I am still experiencing too much fear to engage with that one (even therapists have their own issues, thankfully mine is pretty harmless in the scheme of things).
    I would love to and in the future I will do so, but for now I will have to ask you to roll with my neurosis and accept I am flawed for the moment...

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Just to add a little more craziness to the mix, I don't have a problem playing bass with others listening.
    to answer the next question, I really don't know !

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    I suggest you take it in pieces. Skip the intro initially and learn the verse. Then move onto the chorus.

    You might try learning the bass line first. Maybe put it in a loop and then play along on guitar. Often, the bass notes will give you clues about the chords. Keep the rhythm simple and straightforward. Once you nail the song down you can always embellish. Good luck.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
    I suggest you take it in pieces. Skip the intro initially and learn the verse. Then move onto the chorus.

    You might try learning the bass line first. Maybe put it in a loop and then play along on guitar. Often, the bass notes will give you clues about the chords. Keep the rhythm simple and straightforward. Once you nail the song down you can always embellish. Good luck.
    Thank you for responding.
    I like the idea of bass line first, I used to play the bass to it years ago, I'm left handed and played bass left handed but learned the 6 string right handed. Translating one to the other is too tricky at the moment as I find my hands just don't want to comply, they go in the wrong direction. So I generally don't view them as the same thing.
    I will follow your advice completely and see where I end up.
    Thank you again I really appreciate your help.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
    I suggest you take it in pieces. Skip the intro initially and learn the verse. Then move onto the chorus.

    You might try learning the bass line first. Maybe put it in a loop and then play along on guitar. Often, the bass notes will give you clues about the chords. Keep the rhythm simple and straightforward. Once you nail the song down you can always embellish. Good luck.
    Oh my gosh.....
    I decided to listen to the instrumental version to work out the bass line properly.
    I now realise that I played it wrong for years, the changes I thought were there don't exist. at least not as I thought.
    What a dumb ass!
    Thank you again, I feel somewhat stupid for not doing it previously.
    oddly enough I like it more now.

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    What exactly is your problem? Playing the groove? The Melody?

    Regarding the changes I made a sheet for you, maybe it's of help.

    I went through it again and found that I misheard some chords. So I corrected it and uploaded a new sheet. It's now the entire form.

    Attempting to learn a song and struggling to get it-gm-1-jpg
    Last edited by DonEsteban; 06-16-2022 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban
    What exactly is your problem? Playing the groove? The Melody?

    Regarding the changes I made a sheet for you, maybe it's of help.

    Omitting the Intro, sheet starts, where the guitar comes in, see notes.

    The form is repeated one more time (3 in total AFAIR) and fades out on the C#- chord

    Attachment 92103
    that was so very kind and unexpected, thank you so much.
    seems i wasn't too bad with my assessment after all.
    Its the feel of it I am struggling with, the main body C#-G# I am working out slowly, but I lose the dark moody tone when the chorus hits in. I sound like I'm about to have a jolly old knees up with a bunch of spanish ladies in pretty dresses. I don't seem to keep that dark moody nature which I am now getting in the verses.
    so it is probably a mix of losing the groove and messing up the melody.
    Taking out the vocals has been helpful as I used to be playing part of the vocal sound as I heard it then.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Well it's a Reggae. So playing the typical off-beat chords would be the first thing I'd try.

    The bass is the most important instrument together with that recurring high pitched trumpet or whatever that is, which is basically replacing the off-beat guitar. Rimshot is very important. Just playing that and the bass could reproduce most of the feel IMHO.

    But there's so much more in it. Lots and lots of stuff going on in the background, the guitar comes back, there's the the choir and a whole brass section. Loads of flown in sound snippets and FX. And always this high pitched trumpet thing.

    Stripping all of that reduces the song to it's basic melody which is...well .... rather simple. So singing and playing a guitar/voice only version can hardly show same results.


    Edit: Just listened to it again. Don't forget that Japanese flute (starts in the intro) There are tablas and lots of strings...

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban
    Well it's a Reggae. So playing the typical off-beat chords would be the first thing I'd try.

    The bass is the most important instrument together with that recurring high pitched trumpet or whatever that is, which is basically replacing the off-beat guitar. Rimshot is very important. Just playing that and the bass could reproduce most of the feel IMHO.

    But there's so much more in it. Lots and lots of stuff going on in the background, the guitar comes back, there's the the choir and a whole brass section. Loads of flown in sound snippets and FX. And always this high pitched trumpet thing.

    Stripping all of that reduces the song to it's basic melody which is...well .... rather simple. So singing and playing a guitar/voice only version can hardly show same results.


    Edit: Just listened to it again. Don't forget that Japanese flute (starts in the intro) There are tablas and lots of strings...
    This right here is really useful.
    I have been listening to the instrumental again a few times and you are so right, cutting out the stuff that makes it what it is does leave very little.
    I have started playing less as a result and a lot slower too, using embellishments to cover the brass, I am getting closer I think.
    Perhaps I will post a vid of myself as part of my personal resolution once I feel close enough to warrant bugging people with my sloppy playing, although this exercise has helped me understand what I am doing and as a result is tightening up howI play somewhat.
    I really do appreciate the assistance, I think it has helped me with more than just 1 song.
    Thank you for indulging my weirdness!

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    \: xo ox xo xo / oo xo oo xo :/

    You could "cuff" (which I think is the term reggae musicians used) on 2 and 4.

    Or you could play something like the rhythm I wrote out above. That's two measures with a letter for each eighth note. x is a chord, o is a rest.

    Play along with the record and try to get it to feel good. Words fail for this, but you're trying to make it groove in the reggae style.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    By the way, that ‘flute’ motif at the beginning sounds a lot like the intro to Herbie Hancock’s Watermelon Man.

    (edit: just googled it, and yes it was sampled for George Michael’s track.)


  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    I was a bit stunned when you said it was a reggae song initially. I couldn't hear it at all.
    I listened to it several times and didn't get it.
    Then as I had it on another time, the phone rang and I went off to take the call, upon my return a dance version was playing and it was clear as day.
    Now I can't unhear it.
    I am really impressed with your perspicacious intellect, your musical skills and knowledge appear quite magical.
    I will attend to your latest advice in the morrow and see where I go. I am amazed at how different I am playing after following your guidance, I could have played forever more and never picked up on the points you have mentioned. Even my granddaughter stopped what she was doing earlier just to come and listen to my playing, so I showed her several different parts I plan to play over each other in order to make the whole song.
    I'm working on emulating the hi-hat using ghost notes, a bit like nile rodgers does although not as good.
    So Thank you very much, I cannot express my gratitude enough.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    By the way, that ‘flute’ motif at the beginning sounds a lot like the intro to Herbie Hancock’s Watermelon Man.

    (edit: just googled it, and yes it was sampled for George Michael’s track.)

    There's a horn bit around 2.5 mins that also sounds like the horn playing just before it goes ......"one of these days you're gonna bring some home to me".. its about 5 notes in GM and 7 in the HH.
    Herb is genius, I'm sure I saw him on the muppet show years ago....

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    actually I think it was a detective show called hammer or something like that...
    maybe it was muppets too...

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    He was certainly on Sesame Street, the clip is on youtube.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    He was certainly on Sesame Street, the clip is on youtube.
    Ahhh that would be it. muppets/the street, almost the same thing. dunno where detective show came from then?
    it's probably my mouldy old brain doing a dodgy moment .

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Well . . . hello, D . . . newly found friend and practitioner of subtle irony . . . "Spinning the Wheel" is a natural R@B song, irrespective if it was once played in Reggae Style, and the reason you're struggling with it is that you don't have the "feel." It's that simple. Listen to some "Old School" R@B and after a while, it won't seem so intimidating. I have the same problem with Kabuki and Gregorian Chants . . . but that's another story. Here's one of my favorites . . . listen to the vibe of Brother Green and the very tasty horns and guitar licks in the background. Follow the pathway . . .
    Marinero


  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Miles Davis had a part as a pimp in Miami Vice once, that was a bit weird.

    One night I turned on the TV and was surprised to see Herbie’s face staring out of the screen in a bizarre sci-fi film (Valerian). Apparently he is a sci-fi fan and jumped at the offer of a cameo role in the film.

    Attempting to learn a song and struggling to get it-d726251f-d789-41cc-9c8b-5ba647367456-jpeg

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Well . . . hello, D . . . newly found friend and practitioner of subtle irony . . . "Spinning the Wheel" is a natural R@B song, irrespective if it was once played in Reggae Style, and the reason you're struggling with it is that you don't have the "feel." It's that simple. Listen to some "Old School" R@B and after a while, it won't seem so intimidating. I have the same problem with Kabuki and Gregorian Chants . . . but that's another story. Here's one of my favorites . . . listen to the vibe of Brother Green and the very tasty horns and guitar licks in the background. Follow the pathway . . .
    Marinero
    Hello, I'm glad you stopped by.
    It's nice to know we have similar tastes in music, I love old skool R&B.
    So while the subject is here I want your opinion....
    Do you reckon Minnie Ripperton knew what she was actually singing here? My guess is she was being rather subtle herself to see what she could get away with back in the 70s. I mean check out her pic... perhaps not so subtle after all.
    Its not as in your face as Jackie wilson and Laverne Barker with think twice version X
    so do you think innocent accident or purposeful badness (for the time)?


  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doktah B
    Hello, I'm glad you stopped by.
    It's nice to know we have similar tastes in music, I love old skool R&B.
    So while the subject is here I want your opinion....
    Do you reckon Minnie Ripperton knew what she was actually singing here? My guess is she was being rather subtle herself to see what she could get away with back in the 70s. I mean check out her pic... perhaps not so subtle after all.
    Its not as in your face as Jackie wilson and Laverne Barker with think twice version X
    so do you think innocent accident or purposeful badness (for the time)?

    Hi, D,
    R@B says what it means and there is certainly a double-entendre of the physical/spiritual sense. I played saxophone full-time from '68 to the middle '70s in exclusively R@B/Funk bands before going to Jazz/Rock Big Bands and it was a very special time in my life since I loved the music and still love "Old School" today. It expresses in simple, honest terms the human experience of love, loss, sexuality, sensuality, and the happiness and angst we often feel in life. For the record, Minnie was never one of my favorites but she represents a style later expressed very successfully by Sade in the early '80's. Here's Marvin Gaye. . . "Got To Give It Up" that we opened our second show every night for 1 1/2 years.
    Marinero


  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    I went through it again and found that I've made some mistakes. So I made a new version of the chord sheet. It's now the entire form.

    Here it is:


    Attempting to learn a song and struggling to get it-gm-1-jpg

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    \: xo ox xo xo / oo xo oo xo :/

    You could "cuff" (which I think is the term reggae musicians used) on 2 and 4.

    Or you could play something like the rhythm I wrote out above. That's two measures with a letter for each eighth note. x is a chord, o is a rest.

    Play along with the record and try to get it to feel good. Words fail for this, but you're trying to make it groove in the reggae style.
    Okay, I have been practicing this an awful lot, I'm determined to do this justice. It's the first song I have really got into the nitty gritty of playing properly. I have made it by in the past, getting songs to kind of sound how they are supposed to sound but using the excuse of "artistic licence" to not really learn properly. This has been quite exciting and eye opening having had a really good nudge into listening properly, and the majority is down to your kindness and excellent ears.
    I have come to the conclusion that this was not exactly a great choice from a guitar playing sense as there isn't much guitar playing at all.
    However, it has been the perfect choice for me as I am not sure I would have listened as intently as I have if it were an "easier" guitar song.
    I have worked out a huge amount of the different parts, including the hi-hat (which I can emulate quite well squeezing the E and B strings together up by my bridge pick up and plucking them both over the humbucker screw with heavy mute and a lofi reverb with a longish tail).
    So to my question... I know I cannot play all parts at once, (I am currently learning the organ part) there is too much going on. So I need a way to record each part like a multi track and layer them together. Do you know of a real cheap or free computer thing that will help me to achieve what I am after?
    It needs to be cheap or better still free as I am saving my Queens to get a new White Falcon (I have always wanted one, so why the hell not?) and I have already broken into my fund on a whim previously.
    Is there such a thing available or am I looking at big bucks? I know I could get a looper for part of it, like the hi hat, high pitched horn thing and a bit that bops every 4 notes, as they play almost continuously, but again the less I pay out, the quicker I get my Gretsch goose and with that the better I will sound instantly because I will have a new bit of kit that costs a lot of money (that bit is a joke, before anyone tells me I will still sound as crap as I do now, I know!)

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban
    I went through it again and found that I've made some mistakes. So I made a new version of the chord sheet. It's now the entire form.

    Here it is:


    Attempting to learn a song and struggling to get it-gm-1-jpg
    You are an absolute star, it is now my new screensave!