Attempting to learn a song and struggling to get it

[rpjazzguitar]

Okay, I have been practicing this an awful lot, I'm determined to do this justice. It's the first song I have really got into the nitty gritty of playing properly. I have made it by in the past, getting songs to kind of sound how they are supposed to sound but using the excuse of "artistic licence" to not really learn properly. This has been quite exciting and eye opening having had a really good nudge into listening properly, and the majority is down to your kindness and excellent ears.
I have come to the conclusion that this was not exactly a great choice from a guitar playing sense as there isn't much guitar playing at all.
However, it has been the perfect choice for me as I am not sure I would have listened as intently as I have if it were an "easier" guitar song.
I have worked out a huge amount of the different parts, including the hi-hat (which I can emulate quite well squeezing the E and B strings together up by my bridge pick up and plucking them both over the humbucker screw with heavy mute and a lofi reverb with a longish tail).
So to my question... I know I cannot play all parts at once, (I am currently learning the organ part) there is too much going on. So I need a way to record each part like a multi track and layer them together. Do you know of a real cheap or free computer thing that will help me to achieve what I am after?
It needs to be cheap or better still free as I am saving my Queens to get a new White Falcon (I have always wanted one, so why the hell not?) and I have already broken into my fund on a whim previously.
Is there such a thing available or am I looking at big bucks? I know I could get a looper for part of it, like the hi hat, high pitched horn thing and a bit that bops every 4 notes, as they play almost continuously, but again the less I pay out, the quicker I get my Gretsch goose and with that the better I will sound instantly because I will have a new bit of kit that costs a lot of money (that bit is a joke, before anyone tells me I will still sound as crap as I do now, I know!)

There are a number of free or low-cost options.

All you need is an "audio interface". You plug your guitar into at one end and then plug the output of the audio interface into your computer.

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (about $100 new and commonly available used) but various devices will accomplish the same task.

Then, download Reaper, which is free to evaluate and $60 to buy, last time I looked. Reaper is a full featured studio and a lot of pros use it. I'm not suggesting it's equal to ProTools, but it works great and has a lot of capability.

At that point you have a recording studio.

My son does it on his Android phone -- don't know which app. He programs in some of the parts and plays the others into the mic that's part of his earbuds. This doesn't get you high quality recordings, but it can work for the practice purpose you're describing and it's free, or close.

[Doktah B]

There are a number of free or low-cost options.

All you need is an "audio interface". You plug your guitar into at one end and then plug the output of the audio interface into your computer.

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (about $100 new and commonly available used) but various devices will accomplish the same task.

Then, download Reaper, which is free to evaluate and $60 to buy, last time I looked. Reaper is a full featured studio and a lot of pros use it. I'm not suggesting it's equal to ProTools, but it works great and has a lot of capability.

At that point you have a recording studio.

My son does it on his Android phone -- don't know which app. He programs in some of the parts and plays the others into the mic that's part of his earbuds. This doesn't get you high quality recordings, but it can work for the practice purpose you're describing and it's free, or close.

This place is full of star people and you are one, thank you.
I don't have a phone, I got rid of mine about 20 years ago. I hate being contacted any time anywhere.
I find it such an invasive part of modern life, I just don't want to play that game.
I am so very old school that this is the first social media I have been part of for over 15 years, it stops patients looking me up.
I will check out the bits you suggest. I don't need pro equipment, if I live another 100 years I would never make pro grade.
Free or close to free is good enough for me, I don't think Slash has anything to fear from me learning the guitar.

[DonEsteban]

Reaper: +1

use it every day

[Doktah B]

Reaper: +1

use it every day

okay, so what interface do you recommend?
I was just this moment looking at reaper, is that $60 per month or year?
it does look cool, and i would get to play with it for a couple of months first before buying.... sounds like it's worth checking out, if they accept payment from uk. it does say an american bank. maybe they take paypal? I'm off back there to check.

[Doktah B]

that looks similar to CS6 video editor, I have played with that quite a bit.

[RayS]

okay, so what interface do you recommend?
I was just this moment looking at reaper, is that $60 per month or year?
it does look cool, and i would get to play with it for a couple of months first before buying.... sounds like it's worth checking out, if they accept payment from uk. it does say an american bank. maybe they take paypal? I'm off back there to check.

While Reaper is not free! you can use it forever and it won't cost anything ..just buy it after your "unlimited" trial......it's a one time 60$ !!! Fantastic software......Track, Edit, Record, Mix , Bounce, whatever it can do it all....I'm a sound pro and have not needed PT in years....Reaper's the tool..... It can be as simple as you want but also as complex as you can make it...wonderful invention.....


Ray

[DonEsteban]

okay, so what interface do you recommend?
I was just this moment looking at reaper, is that $60 per month or year?.

It's 60$ for 2 major updates. So if you get in @ version 6 you're covered until version 8. Typically that's 2 to 4 years (or even more).

Worth every penny, cent or whatever currency you're thinking in.

Payment is processed by some 3rd party company (some fees might apply)

[Doktah B]

While Reaper is not free! you can use it forever and it won't cost anything ..just buy it after your "unlimited" trial......it's a one time 60$ !!! Fantastic software......Track, Edit, Record, Mix , Bounce, whatever it can do it all....I'm a sound pro and have not needed PT in years....Reaper's the tool..... It can be as simple as you want but also as complex as you can make it...wonderful invention.....


Ray

Ray

thanks Ray,
One off payments count as almost free (especially at 60 bucks), it gets cheaper each year!
it does look rather cool, I fell asleep watching the tutorials (because it was late not because it was dull) last night.
It reminds me of CS6 movie editor, it looks pretty much the same in how it works.
Once I sort out the bit to plug the guitar into it's mine!

[grahambop]

I also use the Focusrite scarlett 2i2 and Reaper, works perfectly.

I produce nearly all my youtube videos in Reaper too (it has a basic video editing capability). Since the audio track is already there, it’s usually easier to import and sync the video file to it and do simple edits inside Reaper, rather than in another program.

[Doktah B]

I also use the Focusrite scarlett 2i2 and Reaper, works perfectly.

I produce nearly all my youtube videos in Reaper too (it has a basic video editing capability). Since the audio track is already there, it’s usually easier to import and sync the video file to it and do simple edits inside Reaper, rather than in another program.

so you used it for boplicity?
that's the kind of idea I had for this, to do the different parts separately then blend it. I know it has drum plug ins etc but I want to do it all on my Brent goose (Hofner verythin, it's brown and I kinda like geese) seeing as I have been working out ways to get the different sounds as close as I can.
I also plan to play it all rather than cut and paste (if that's a thing? I think it's called sampling in music isn't it when you do a little bit then repeat that in a loop over and again?) This has been really good fun learning this tune, I am so very grateful for all the help and advice.

[grahambop]

so you used it for boplicity?
that's the kind of idea I had for this, to do the different parts separately then blend it. I know it has drum plug ins etc but I want to do it all on my Brent goose (Hofner verythin, it's brown and I kinda like geese) seeing as I have been working out ways to get the different sounds as close as I can.
I also plan to play it all rather than cut and paste (if that's a thing? I think it's called sampling in music isn't it when you do a little bit then repeat that in a loop over and again?) This has been really good fun learning this tune, I am so very grateful for all the help and advice.

I used Reaper to record the audio for Boplicity (6 guitars + a bass track). However I didn't use it for the video editing, I don't think that would have been possible in Reaper. It required multiple-screen video collages and lots of syncing of separate video parts. So for the video editing I used Powerdirector (and even then I had some techy issues which needed some workarounds).

But for anything simple, i.e. just guitar + backing, I do the whole lot in Reaper. If your computer had enough guts, you could probably record the parts for a whole symphony in Reaper, as far as the audio is concerned.

[RayS]

If your computer had enough guts, you could probably record the parts for a whole symphony in Reaper, as far as the audio is concerned.

Indeed you can....you can actually record a multitrack of a symphony and (with reaper app as a base in Cohler Classical) edit with 4 point editing and source -destination editing for extra $$$ ....Very powerful tool indeed.....

FYI Reaper macos 6.00 launched on dec 3 2019......


Ray

[rpjazzguitar]

I've done a number of projects with Reaper.

For some, I've been a sideman. I'm sent a reference track and I play along. Some of the tunes have been over 650 bars long with all kinds of changes. So I record a section at a time. The final version may be twenty tracks.

For others, I've been the leader. I've mixed down MIDI stuff exported from MuseScore with live tracks. I used MIDI instruments from each. That included writing out bass lines (the acoustic bass sound works for me) and drum parts. Drummer may contribute 8 or more tracks to be mixed down. All pretty straightforward in Reaper. Sometimes, I've preferred the MIDI stuff to the live.

Editing capability is deep and I barely scratched the surface. But, I do know how to slice up and move wave forms. How to fade in or out, EQ, FX and a few other basics. Some of that could be less than fully intuitive, but maybe that's because they're putting the controls of jumbo jet onto a laptop screen -- you have to be tricky to make it all available.

At no point have I thought of doing anything Reaper couldn't do. I thought the $60 was a bargain.

[Doktah B]

Okay, I have a theory question, imagine one is playing a chord, barre across the 4th fret not playing the low E. fingering is root 5th root -3 5th then raising the -3 by a whole step. what am I playing?
I know it's C#, but C# what to what?
also, same barre except playing it as a G#. Root 5th root -3 5# root, to root 5th root -3 5 root, to root 5th root 3 5 root, to root 5th root 4 5 root.

can someone explain what I am doing just so I can get my head around it. as in what are each of the chords called. I know they are different flavours of the same thing. thanx.

[rpjazzguitar]

Okay, I have a theory question, imagine one is playing a chord, barre across the 4th fret not playing the low E. fingering is root 5th root -3 5th then raising the -3 by a whole step. what am I playing?
I know it's C#, but C# what to what?
also, same barre except playing it as a G#. Root 5th root -3 5# root, to root 5th root -3 5 root, to root 5th root 3 5 root, to root 5th root 4 5 root.

can someone explain what I am doing just so I can get my head around it. as in what are each of the chords called. I know they are different flavours of the same thing. thanx.

A good shorthand is to put in the fret number starting with the lowest string. So, a C major at the 8th fret would be 8 10 10 9 8 8 .
Use 0 for open strings and X for deadened strings.

I couldn't figure out what notes you were playing from your message.

[Doktah B]

A good shorthand is to put in the fret number starting with the lowest string. So, a C major at the 8th fret would be 8 10 10 9 8 8 .
Use 0 for open strings and X for deadened strings.

I couldn't figure out what notes you were playing from your message.

I appologise for the gobbledegook:

X 4 6 6 5 4 to X 4 6 6 7 4

4 6 6 4 5 4
4 6 6 4 4 4
4 6 6 5 4 4
4 6 6 6 4 4
I think that's it, thank you for responding.

[rpjazzguitar]

X 4 6 6 5 4 That's Db Ab Db E Ab. So, you really have 3 different notes and Db E and Ab. If you call Db the root, that's R b3 and 5. Dbm.

to X 4 6 6 7 4 That's Db Ab Db Gb Ab. This one has R 4 and 5. Dbsus, I guess.

I leave the rest to you. Being able to identify the notes on the fingerboard and knowledge of how chords are constructed are the two things you need to know. Plenty of resources around to learn that stuff.

4 6 6 4 5 4
4 6 6 4 4 4
4 6 6 5 4 4
4 6 6 6 4 4
I think that's it, thank you for responding.

[Doktah B]

X 4 6 6 5 4 That's Db Ab Db E Ab. So, you really have 3 different notes and Db E and Ab. If you call Db the root, that's R b3 and 5. Dbm.

to X 4 6 6 7 4 That's Db Ab Db Gb Ab. This one has R 4 and 5. Dbsus, I guess.

I leave the rest to you. Being able to identify the notes on the fingerboard and knowledge of how chords are constructed are the two things you need to know. Plenty of resources around to learn that stuff.

4 6 6 4 5 4
4 6 6 4 4 4
4 6 6 5 4 4
4 6 6 6 4 4
I think that's it, thank you for responding.

okay thank you. I am aware of what the individual notes are which is why I can identify them as root, 5th minor3rd etc What I am unsure of is what they become collectively, so like you pointed out C#m and C#sus (as in C#sus4?)
I know there are 2 roots and a 5th, minor third and a sharp 5th on the first of the G# configurations i listed, I just don't know what chord it becomes with a minor 3rd and sharp 5th for instance. the rest of it is easy as it's just the basis of a power chord R+5. it's the flavour I don't get .

I think the second one ( 4 6 6 4 4 4 ) is just G#m ( R 5 R 3m 5 R) simply because it's Root 5th and minor 3rd, it just happens to have three Roots and two fifths.

[Doktah B]

if I am correct the 3rd one ( 4 6 6 5 4 4) is just G#? ( R 5 R 3 5 R)

[Jonathan0996]

1202793[/URL]]Oh my gosh.....
I decided to listen to the instrumental version to work out the bass line properly.
I now realise that I played it wrong for years, the changes I thought were there don't exist. at least not as I thought.
What a dumb ass!
Thank you again, I feel somewhat stupid for not doing it previously.
oddly enough I like it more now.

I’m glad that approach was helpful to you. And don’t feel stupid. Stupid people don’t learn from their mistakes.

[Doktah B]

I’m glad that approach was helpful to you. And don’t feel stupid. Stupid people don’t learn from their mistakes.

Thank you for your kind encouragement, I have come a long way since I started this adventure and it's been a blast!

[rpjazzguitar]

okay thank you. I am aware of what the individual notes are which is why I can identify them as root, 5th minor3rd etc What I am unsure of is what they become collectively, so like you pointed out C#m and C#sus (as in C#sus4?)
I know there are 2 roots and a 5th, minor third and a sharp 5th on the first of the G# configurations i listed, I just don't know what chord it becomes with a minor 3rd and sharp 5th for instance. the rest of it is easy as it's just the basis of a power chord R+5. it's the flavour I don't get .

I think the second one ( 4 6 6 4 4 4 ) is just G#m ( R 5 R 3m 5 R) simply because it's Root 5th and minor 3rd, it just happens to have three Roots and two fifths.

466454 is G# D# G# B E G#.

So, boil it own to G# B D# and E. That's R b3 5 and #5. No obvious name for that chord. 7b13 have 5 and b13 (same note as #5, but an octave up. But 7b13 also has a b7 and maybe a 9. So, you'd have to write G#(b13) (omit b7) or something similarly unwieldy. If you were writing a tune with that chord, in that inversion, you'd have to spell it out on a staff.

But, if you start with E, you get R 3 5 nat7. That's an Emaj7. If you want the low note to be a G#, you could write Emaj7/G#.

[Doktah B]

466454 is G# D# G# B E G#.

So, boil it own to G# B D# and E. That's R b3 5 and #5. No obvious name for that chord. 7b13 have 5 and b13 (same note as #5, but an octave up. But 7b13 also has a b7 and maybe a 9. So, you'd have to write G#(b13) (omit b7) or something similarly unwieldy. If you were writing a tune with that chord, in that inversion, you'd have to spell it out on a staff.

But, if you start with E, you get R 3 5 nat7. That's an Emaj7. If you want the low note to be a G#, you could write Emaj7/G#.

Ah, okay, that makes sense, which is why I felt stuck. It would mean the final one ( 4 6 6 6 4 4 ) would be a G#msus4.
The odd one is a passing phrase that seems to work as part of the transition between the C#m to G#m as an 8th note. it sounds horrible on it's own but seems to work real nice as a bit of tension laden infill.
Thank you for helping walk my mouldy old brain through the fog.

[Doktah B]

I have been busy in theory this morning, apparently it might be a minor 7th ( R b3 5 b7) if I am reading correctly. 5# and b7 are the same thing aren't they?
edit: I just thought about it. ignore me, I am confusing myself again!

[rpjazzguitar]

Ah, okay, that makes sense, which is why I felt stuck. It would mean the final one ( 4 6 6 6 4 4 ) would be a G#msus4.
The odd one is a passing phrase that seems to work as part of the transition between the C#m to G#m as an 8th note. it sounds horrible on it's own but seems to work real nice as a bit of tension laden infill.
Thank you for helping walk my mouldy old brain through the fog.

4 6 6 6 4 4 is G# D# G# C# D# G#. Eliminating the duplicates, it's G# D# C#. Root 5 11 or R 4 5. It's a G#sus triad.