-
Do any of you comp for another guitar including a bassline? I was listening to this video posted in another thread by dutchbopper, and on one song (at 10:26), that walking bass comping really sounded good to me. Is this hard to do at a high level? Do you regularly do it? Does is sound good to you? Thanks
Last edited by AlsoRan; 02-20-2022 at 03:10 PM.
-
02-19-2022 10:10 PM
-
Done well, it sounds great.
Hard to do well.
-
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
I’ve been doing it for decades, first on a 6 (often with a drop D 6th) and for the last 25+ years on a 7 (which really takes it to a new level). I run a jazz jam at a local club and my house band backs / augments the jammers. Before Covid, I did many duet gigs with another guitar. So I’ve backed many players this way. It’s a challenge and a great education in both theory and rhythmic exploration. The downside is that I have to keep the bass going while soloing unless the other player can pick it up. You and the audience don’t miss it if you do a whole tune without it - but once it’s there, it’s missed when it stops.
Here’s a 30 second example - see what you think.
I like an archtoppy tone for this, but with tight bass. The guitar is a Forshage-designed Tele 7 from Matt Raines with a pair of Lace Alumitone humbuckers. This was mic’ed from that RE cab on the floor behind me, driven by a 7.5W triode tube amp.
-
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
That is it! And you are so right about missing it when doing a duet and the other guitarists does not use this approach.
I have heard some really good comping (IMHO) on this forum, but I have not heard many use this style. I have even heard some call it "hokey" or "a gimmick." But to my ears, it is a valid approach to comping that brings it's own nice flavor.
-
By the way, I edited the first post to include a timestamp where walking bass is used. Go to 10:26 and you will see what I was referring to.
-
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
i view my playing as a bunch of sliders that I can blend, so single notes/chords is like a spectrum rather than one or the other. Register, whether or not I am primarily concerned with the bass line or middle voices (or soprano) when comping are other issues. Ideally I can then tailor my playing to whatever situation it is without a fuss based on my listening.
For this reason I also want to play primarily with a pick all times, regardless of the gig, (maybe a little hybrid where absolutely necessary). This is limiting in some ways and very challenging in others, but it means ultimately there are no transitions or bumps in the road, in this I am very much influenced by Peter Bernstein. The only other option that I’d be comfortable would be to play fingerstyle only which has comparable if quite different challenges .
I like the guys comping in the video btw; they play beautifully together and I feel that the walking bass bit is kind of loose and natural, it doesn’t feel like a set piece thing like when gear demo YouTubers do it…
-
Thanks, Christian. It's great to hear the thoughts of a long-time Jazz player. Let me look for a dang refund on the Walking Bass course that I just ordered since you say it is worthless. I will just go back to my hole and be a nobody again.
Just kidding! But seriously, I love your honest, from the heart assessments. Its good to know how artists really feel about a topic.
-
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
No that's just my own preference. I just want continuity in my playing. I'm not going to say Joe Pass is wrong lol.
-
I think it can be a great sound and do utilize it occasionally. I think it sounds best if you do it sparingly and not on every tune of the whole set. Even just falling into walking for a bridge of a tune and then back to chordal comping can give the solo a nice lift and energy. Same thing for the last 4 bars going back to the top of the form for the next chorus
Recently I was helping an All-State jazz band for high school kids since there was no piano player or guitar player available. The bass player had to miss the rehearsal I was at, so I was playing walking bass lines for the full 4 hour rehearsal. It was great practice and exposed that I only have a handful of patterns that I fall back on every time for walking a bass line
-
Originally Posted by Paulie2
Yes, my friend, I think I like your approach of using it sparingly. I like a little variety in the comping section, especially when its used with purpose to such as to raise or lower the energy. The idea of using it in the turnaround section is nice. I am just beginning to experience what you said about the bass patterns possibly being a limiting factor.
How did you hold up for four hours? That is Jaco-type stamina!
-
This is a popular technique for guitar duos so is a useful addition to the tool kit. I personally enjoy doing it but don't always enjoy playing against it. Single bass notes are sometimes too high in the register so can interfere with a soloist. It also doesn't drive the rhythm as strongly as say four-in-the-bar, IMO. So, it's may be OK for a chorus or two. Then using pick, combining bass, fuller chords, and four-in-the-bar lifts things to a new level. I can't think of any examples, but Martin Taylor and Howard Alden both have great guitar duo accompaniment styles. Howard Paul of Benedetto guitars also has a great accompaniment style. For me, the most important thing is driving the rhythm and keeping out of the way of soloists.
-
A good lesson on this from Tim Lerch.
-
You can basically play the bass root note to the chord plus 1 (or no) other bass note chord tone leading into the next chord and it will be adequate. It doesn't have to be a full legitimate bass line to swing and sound full. Just get in the habit of playing the root and maybe 1 or 2 other bass note chord tones while playing the chord and you're on your way.
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 02-21-2022 at 11:01 PM.
-
It's a great sound. Just don't go in and out of it abruptly. Make it a distinct change of texture.
-
Hi !
I might look arrogant but for me, playing walking bass and chords is the easiest thing I can do, even if it's impressive (except when I play), it's simple and efficient.
You should try to play walking basses first, then you add the chords and you will see it's simple.
The most difficult thing for me is to play with a bass player.
I'm not a good example because I'm just strumbling and noodling.
-
There are some tricks I borrowed from Joe Pass.
For example when you play CM I play CM7 Dm7 Em7 Dm7
When I have to play CM7 / CM7 / Dm7 / G7
I play
CM7 Dm7 / Em7 Eb7 / Dm7 Dm7 Am7 Ab7alt / G7 Am7 Bb7m Bm7(b5) / CM7
Don't play this everywhere but it can make a good effect when your partner plays a little bit too diatonic.
On the other hand it might sound too mechanical when it's overplayed.
Or kind of, chords' name hasn't got any kind of importance.
That is important is how the bass moves.
This is what I was talking about, I know it's ugly but when there is a soloist, it can sound good if this comping can be a bit forgotten in the mix.
That's just my experience, it's easy to play the way I do and I think anyone can do better.Last edited by Lionelsax; 02-22-2022 at 08:37 AM.
-
I do a lot of guitar duet stuff with a friend of mine and I often do walking bass, but it's not the only technique I use. I think it's important to mix it up - walking bass lines, half-time bass, both with and without chords; chords without bass in various harmonic rhythms, counter-melodies. Ditto for accompanying a singer, though some need pretty straight four to the bar playing so as not to lose the form.
-
If you want to hear state of the art duo playing with walking guitar bass, you should check out the duo album with Howard Alden and Kenny Peplowsky. I've never heard better.
-
Originally Posted by sgcim
-
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
So his overall advise was keep-it-simple since you don't wish to step-on the other player \ soloist.Last edited by jameslovestal; 02-23-2022 at 03:08 PM.
-
Originally Posted by sgcim
-
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
-
^^^Here's Howard Paul playing with another guitarist. FFWD to about 112 and you will hear how the walking bass changes to pick and four-in-a-bar, which is what I was talking about above. If you FFWD to Howard Paul comps you will see he uses a pick with plenty of small up strokes.
^^^FFWd to 144 and it's clearer what Howard it doing. What a contrast to how the other player comps.
^^^Here's Martin Taylor with Andreas Oberg. Notice how Martin effortlessly creates drive. Not only is the bass walking, so are the chords. There's a lot of half steps going on, but the economy is worth taking note of. He doesn't have to make big changes to his fingerings.
-
I would if I could, but I can't, so I don't. All for the best, I think.
-
Folks, I am hearing at least two distinctly different types of walking bass in this thread.
The first type was where the comper plays a bass line and throw in different chords/chord fragments. The second type seems to have the comper actually play chords, moving them around such that he/she creates a bass line.
This is getting more and more complicated.
I am working with this course, right now. I can already feel my barre chording getting stronger. This is secondary to my other studies, but after listening to the various videos, it is something (else) that I want to master. Thanks, All.
Jazz Walking Bass Guitar Lessons - Sean McGowan - TrueFire
Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah (Christian Scott)
Today, 12:32 AM in The Players