The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    First of all sorry for my English.

    Very interesting subject here.
    I completely agree about the "learn-by-ear" system.......but unfortunately I'm almost 60 y.o. and (maybe) it's too late for me. Anyway I think that as loang as you have fun when you play and (very important) you can give some happy feelings to your audience....who cares if you are reading a book or not ?

    I also have "invented" a system to give a score to a Jazz player (LOL).

    - If you can play the melody of a tune by memory (no sheet music) = 0.5 points [Single notes or chord melody, it doesn't matter]

    - If you can play the changes of a tune by memory (no sheet music) = 0.5 points

    So 1 POINT for each complete tune. Maybe you can have some troubles improvising on the changes....but you have a lifetime to improve

    Personally I have a terrible 15 POINTS SCORE.

    I think that with above 50 POINTS SCORE you can consider yourself a pro Jazz musician.

    What's your SCORE ??

    Ettore

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    I wonder how many of you forget tunes and the progressions after some time or how easy is it to get a tune completely to memory. So how easy it is for most of you to forget tunes?.
    [DISCLAIMER: This is intended for beginners only. Judging from the "discussions" I've seen, the rest of you are all so smart that there's no point in discussion.]

    JOT IT DOWN!
    After a month, I've forgotten how I played a song. If I didn't make notes, I'd have to start from scratch. It don't take long and I get close, but it's never the same because I'm always learning new grips, new stuff. I always wonder what I'd lost as I tend to inject whatever I'm studying at the time into the mix. Three months later, I'm a different musician. Especially now that I'm retired. No structure, you know. Tuesday...? You don't say. Hours and Months escape me. At least I know if it's Summer or Winter. I take pride in that. Mow the lawn or shovel snow.

    IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GRIPS!
    The complete guitarist works around the chord. Unless he's just a wanker who only plays "Lead Guitar". And those who don't play single-notes and only play chords are wankers, too. "Oh, I'm the LEAD Guitar...!" "Oh, I'm the Rhythm Guitarist!" I actually recall hearing this back in the Sixties. They outnumbered Complete Guitarists then. I blame the Beatles. Why not... Every great guitarist noodled around the chords. They all said so somewhere in interviews: Johnny Smith, Herb Ellis, Joe Pass... You can take it to the bank. Of course, that was before Berklee Scales... 1970 B.S.

    GET A BOOK!
    You either write things down or you start over. It's important to write things down. You need your "book". All big bands had a book which contained their arrangements. They had to pay an arranger, so they made sure they kept books. It should be of manuscript paper and you should be able to read at least enough to pick up the melody again after a holiday. You need to write in the key signature and time signature at the start. You're probably copying from some form of sheet music, anyway. In fact, buy a book, (like Mel Bay put out, two volumes of standards written for chord-melody) and then copy it and alter it for your arrangement.

    CHORD SYMBOLS, CHORD GRIDS, CHORD STACKS!
    Chord symbols are a shorthand, a snapshot compared to a filmstrip. Reading stacks is better, but no one wants to read anymore. The symbols don't make the lines obvious. If chord symbols were compasses, a trip to Chicago would land you in Winnipeg. However, they can help, but a better thing is a chord grid with the symbol above it to show how the grip lays on the FB.

    MAKE CHORD GRIDS!
    Do what Johnny Smith did in his book, and that was to simply draw six vertical lines on the stave, to create a grid with the five stave lines. Then fill it in with the chord. Easier than using a stamp pad. Make sure that the size of the stave paper is such that you can read these grids. So the first stave on the page has the chord grids and the second stave on the page has the melody written out. Beneath the melody, write the Scale Degree of the note, and/or the letter name of the note. It depends on one's level of illiteracy. I use 'em all.

    MAKE MELODY GRIDS!
    Repeat Johnny Smith's idea with the chord grids for melody. At strategic locations on the stave below the melody stave, draw six vertical lines. Now you can fill in the notes that you play for those 2 or 3 bars. This gives you the string, fret, and position for that group of notes. You can even number them in the order of which they are played.

    BASS LINES, TOP LINES!
    You can reserve a stave for the Bass notes, probably written in half-notes. Just above them, write in the Treble notes, or top notes of the chords. It would be clever to write in the other two lines in between them, if you care to. Now your into SATB chord stacks. If you're never going to read, well... Otherwise, tie the stacks together with those added notes you play with your pinky finger.

    LYRICS?
    If you want, jot them down below the melody stave. They aid greatly in memorisation. They also help you from getting lost easily. They may help you with your rendition so that you don't turn a Torch Song into a Jazz Waltz.

    IN-FORMATION!
    You need to indicate inversions, omitted chord tones, fills, arpeggios, double-stops, articulations... You may not write music, but you can copy... You can use letters and numbers and FB grids. I can write music a lot better than I can read it.

    REDUCED CHANGES.
    Keep a few sheets with the skeleton changes sketched out. Reduce the progression to its basic I-V7. This displays the tune structure and is easy to remember, plot a root path, and understand the changes. Then have another sheet with some added 2m7-57's and Passing Chords... As your embellish your progression with subs, extension, alteration... start a new sheet. Number or Date the sheets. It doesn't hurt to make a note about subs you used or articulations (bends, vibrato, chimes...)

    FB-NAV.
    Make another grid to show your Root Path on the FB. Plot a course! Graph paper works well for a lot of this. This is like a roadmap along the FB. They may be roots, or the lowest note of your chord grip. This will also prevent runout when you get towards the nut.

    CHEAT!
    You know, if you are trying to avoid reading, use the bloody scale degree numbers, or maybe the interval numbers of the chord stack.

    PUT IT ON ON THE TAB!
    Don't be ashamed. Tablature has a real value here. We have the melody and chords and soloing written in notation or grids, but what about mapping the music to the FB? You need fingering, neck positions, shifts, and there are several places on the FB where music can be duplicated. Some form of TAB can instantly let you know where you plotted your arrangement on the FB. Music can't do this very well, unless you clutter up the notation with annotations.

    LUTE TAB.
    Funny that the Lute was originally played by tablature. They were smarter back then. Our generation is like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy... We grow dimmer with each generation. But we think we're smarter, eh?. Music was more refined and complicated in the past. All the rules were written out generations past. Remember that computers, television, recording, studios, and radio were invented by your grand-parents' generation. You and I just use them...

    TEDIOUS BUT NEEDFUL
    You'll be spending money on Manuscript Paper, but what else are you going to spend it on, anyway. Your time saved is valuable. You need your "Book", or call it a journal. A place to noodle & doodle, Give it a distinctive cover. I titled mine "Bread & Butter Tunes". Keep it safe or keep it in a fireproof safe. Keep it at home or make a travelling copy. You'll be happy down the road that you did write something down. Sometimes a visual cue will revive your memory. Like BINGO! - Time Well Wasted! Something you could pass down to your prodigy son... or daughter. Tell them at first that you can't, and they'll respect you more and will start asking you for it. Life's funny that way.

    Johnny Methane: I sat down in my room on Monday and began to improvise. The next day I improvised it again; dropping the improvs I didn't like and keeping the ones I did. I improvised it all week. On Saturday night I improvised it again on stage. They loved it. When asked, I replied that I had improvised it. Now they want to interview me in Improv Magazine!

    ::
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 07-16-2023 at 10:08 PM.

  4. #53

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    If I know the melody well enough to sing it, I can play it.

    For those tunes, I can often scuffle through a chord melody if the changes are reasonably conventional.

    Where it can break down is when I have to do it on stage at a brisk tempo.

    I prefer to have the chart in front of me as a safety net, except for tunes I know really, really well.

    I've worked on it for years, never quite getting it up to the level I aspire to.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I prefer to have the chart in front of me as a safety net, except for tunes I know really, really well.

    I've worked on it for years, never quite getting it up to the level I aspire to.
    I really don’t like having charts in front of me. But I routinely forget tunes and stuff so that puts me in a bit of a predicament.

    I sort tunes I know into three lists.

    The first is tunes I probably never have to practice ever again. Stella, All of Me, etc. I could probably not play those for a decade and still remember them. I don’t have a ton of tunes on this list.

    The second list is tunes that I know reasonably well. Maybe I’d have to take a quick look at the end of the B-section before playing it without the chart, or maybe I known it well but don’t have a chord melody or something. This is the biggest list by far.

    The third list is tunes that I remember but that are new (and presumably not as secure) or tunes that I have a hard time remembering. Maybe I could play them from memory if I had a few minutes to refresh. That kind of thing.

    I find that the separate lists really help because it makes my practice more effective. I spend most of my time on list 3 obviously. If it’s list 2, then it’s mostly creative practice like harmonizing the melody or working through a line I learned or whatever. List 1 I don’t spend much time on anymore.

    I also always learn melodies on single or pairs of strings. Probably for the same reason RP likes to be able to sing them. Just makes them more of an ear thing than a muscle memory thing.

  6. #55

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    It’s mostly in the melody for me, and also I need to be able to hear the chords in my mind. I’m quite stupid musically, so it takes me a long long time to internalise a melody.

    I actually think some tunes I learned a long time ago are kind of learned in a bad way. I have to revisit them to get them out of the grips thing and be able to play them more flexibly. Transposing keys can help.

    Sometimes I learned slightly janky changes or the melody slightly wrong.

    Muscle memory plays a part, but aural memory is more dependable.

    The more tunes you learn, the better you get at relearning them fast

    I personally really don’t like it when people plonk a chart in front of me for a tune like that for ‘safety’. If it’s something I don’t know, fine, but for something I know a bit, I just end up staring stupidly at the chart and not using my lugholes. I also try to look at a chart for one chorus and then turn the phone or sheet over. It makes for better playing.

    For standards obviously. For more modern tunes, it’s less obvious. Chords don’t follow the melody in such a standard way. Ii V I, I-IV-I, turnaround, moves to relative minor and so on. There’s no too much out there.

    Modern tunes and originals need a different approach.

  7. #56

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    I try to listen to as many versions of a tune as I can to get the melody and lyrics into my memory. I often look in the Internet Archive for early shellac recordings of a song and now I have a problem: Beautiful Love was originally in 3/4 and now I have serious problems to imagine it as the 4/4 tune being played nowadays LOL

  8. #57

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    I think people who are good at learning tunes don't have to work very hard at it.

    They remember the sound of the tune the same way as a non-musician. Most people can sing some songs and they'll know immediately if the chords are played incorrectly. So, they know the sound.

    What separates some players is the ability to find the notes and chords, on the fly, from hearing the sound -- same as most of us can do with a 12 bar blues.

    If you can train your ears and fingers to do that, sort of without any input from the likes of you, you'll suddenly know a lot of tunes.

    For mere mortals, try a lot of repetition.

  9. #58

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    I have this problem as well. remembering melodies/chords so i dont need the chart.

    i now a local guitarist here, Doug McDonald..knows 100's of tunes and doesn't need charts...He plays with singers all the time, so knows all kinds of stuff in all keys.

  10. #59

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    It is very useful to think of changes as sequences of Roman numerals. I found out that I did that intuitively. Maybe this video can help some.


  11. #60

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    I'm using lego bricks.


  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzgtrl4
    I have this problem as well. remembering melodies/chords so i dont need the chart.

    i now a local guitarist here, Doug McDonald..knows 100's of tunes and doesn't need charts...He plays with singers all the time, so knows all kinds of stuff in all keys.
    Are you in the Palm Springs area? I used to see Doug in the LA area many years ago. Very nice man. Went to my house once about 30 years ago. Solid player. Does he still play in the area?

    How about you? Any jazz gigs in the area?
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 07-18-2023 at 01:47 PM.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    I'm using lego bricks.

    Are you using the Cork/Elliot method successfully?

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Are you in the Palm Springs area? I used to see Doug in the LA area many years ago. Very nice man. Went to my house once about 30 years ago. Solid player. Does he still play in the area?

    How about you? Any jazz gigs in the area?
    Hi Yes, La Quinta/Indio area..more east valley..but ya Dougs down here and plays around town during the season, I see he has been out of town alot too..LA, Vegas..Not too many places to play jazz anymore down here, there still a few but no place that is strictly jazz, they dried up. used to be a place called AJs on the Green in Cat city that Doug ran the jam session. Was way cool 6-7 years ago now its closed.

    I do jazz gigs but they are mostly privates at the country clubs, corporate events etc..

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    I wonder how many of you forget tunes and the progressions after some time...Well sure enough got to memorizing tunes working on them daily then down the road I will forget them although relearning is easier. So how easy it is for most of you to forget tunes?...some tunes I have played over the 40 years are just all there always...However I tried to learn some tunes that are not played as much...I got it memorized then stop playing it for awhile and boom it is gone...I just manage to forget changes too easy...would like to here some thoughts.
    Buy one:
    Jerry Coker's "Hearing The Changes"
    David Baker's "How To Learn Tunes"
    Jerry Coker's "Improvising Jazz"

    Better yet, buy them all.

    Also, visit Ralph Patt's Website, Guitar Guy, Jim Bottorff, New Orleans Jam Book. Ralph Patt reduced each song to the most essential chords. Easier to remember.

    I've found some success in using encapsulation. Memorise the chord changes as groups, or standard changes. Then Mix & Match. A modular approach. Less to actually memorise.

    [RC SR MW WM BD SGB BS SB TD]
    Rhythm-Changes: 1 67 27 57 or 1 67 2m7 57 or 1 6m7 2m7 57
    Sears-Roebuck Bridge: 37 67 27 57 or 3m7 67 2m7 57
    Montgomery-Ward Bridge: 17 47 27 57
    Ward-Montgomery Bridge: 47 17 27 57
    Back-Door: 5m7 17 4M7/4m6 or 5m7 17 4M7 7b7
    Sweet Georgia Brown: 67 27 57 1M (Also Balling The Jack, Up The Lazy River)
    Basin-Street: 1 37 67 27 57
    Strutters-Ball: 1 27 57 1
    Tadd Dameron Turnback: 1M7 3bM7 6bM7 2bM7

    There's many more:
    Chromatic Dominants: 47 37 3b7 27 or 17 77 7b7 67

    Passing Chords:
    Vaudeville: 1-1#o7-2m7-57, 1-3bo7-2m7-57, 1-5bo7-2m7-57
    Vanilla: 1-2m7-3m7-3bo7-2m7-57-1
    1-1Aug-1M6-2m7-57
    RC Shortcut: 1M7-1M6-2m7-2m6

    Now you can memorise Misty as a BD, RC, SR. This beats memorising every chord. Instead of trying to remember 1M7, 5m7, 17, 4M7, 7b7, just remember BD. When you think BD those five chords should be in the muscle memory and just roll out. You can then make the minor adjustments along the way. Following every chord of a chord chart won't help you much in tune memorisation. Understanding how four bars of changes sounds and chaining them together will.

    Then you can compose variations and movement by applying tritone subs, inversions, extensions, alterations and modulations, different string-sets. You're in charge.

    Many tunes use the same changes with only minor variations. Some tunes work well as medleys and you can memorise two or three Bossa's for the price of one.

    I keep a song-list of my repertoire in playing order and I cycle through it over time, never skipping a tune. Start with Tune No.1 and play your repertoire through to the last song on the list. Not to be done in one sitting, but over practices. In a week or two I've played all my tunes and then start over. Use it or lose it.

    Keep a book of your repertoire, preferably manuscript paper, especially if you make your own chord arrangements. Arrangements are easy to forget.

    ::
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 07-21-2023 at 02:47 AM.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator


    Ralph Patt reduced each song to the most essential chords. Easier to remember.

    ::
    Ive never seen this before. This is very handy. Some of the changes are the same that I’ve been playing for a long time but others are very handy. I like the Come Rain or Come Shine changes here, for example.

    Great suggestion, thanks.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzgtrl4
    Hi Yes, La Quinta/Indio area..more east valley..but ya Dougs down here and plays around town during the season, I see he has been out of town alot too..LA, Vegas..Not too many places to play jazz anymore down here, there still a few but no place that is strictly jazz, they dried up. used to be a place called AJs on the Green in Cat city that Doug ran the jam session. Was way cool 6-7 years ago now its closed.

    I do jazz gigs but they are mostly privates at the country clubs, corporate events etc..
    I go to the restaurant Enzo's in La Quinta since the head chef there, Vito, is part of my wife's Italian family.

    I wonder if you played at an art festival about 8 months ago at La Quinta. Your avatar photo looks similar to a guy I saw playing jazz there. Not going there until it cools down but when I do I hope I catch one of your gigs and maybe run into Doug.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I go to the restaurant Enzo's in La Quinta since the head chef there, Vito, is part of my wife's Italian family.

    I wonder if you played at an art festival about 8 months ago at La Quinta. Your avatar photo looks similar to a guy I saw playing jazz there. Not going there until it cools down but when I do I hope I catch one of your gigs and maybe run into Doug.

    ahh ok, ya i know where Enzos is..i actually used to do a steady gig at The Grill on Main in Old Town LQ. it was a rock gig, but anyway, ya i used to do that art festival years ago..that wasn't me this time..the guy in my avatar picture is Phil Lesh from the Grateful Dead.