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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
    Lot’s of good explanations here. It think rag’s it the clearest. The question that needs asking now it how to play over the changes. If only that F#7 was F#m7, right? If each chord is two beats you have a turnaround, so you outline the chords. You can treat the F#7 as a altered chord resolving to Bm7. Keep it as one phrase resolving to the I chord Amaj7. There are plenty of stock phrases out there where you will get ideas of how to play over these changes. It is one of the most important progressions in jazz, and being able to play fluidly over the changes is the important thing.
    Yeah - although you don’t have to play F#7 but if you do just target the A# (3rd) - not enough time to worry about a scale here. I’d probably just use an F# triad

    But this is how I’d play it. Which is to say; I would play the chords.

    Not much theory there. Practice is kind of the important thing. Theory is just a fairy story I tell students to get them to stop asking questions and do the bloody work haha

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
    You can treat the F#7 as a altered chord resolving to Bm7.
    The thing is.. you can do that. But while playing you know very well that it does not do that at all. Since the player knows where it actually goes next, to think it "want's to resolve to Bm7" is just bending reality.
    I didn't think like this before this thread

  4. #28

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    Take a simple Blues form... I'll write out in "E" for the OP

    / E69 ... / D#-7b5 G#7b13 /...( C#-9 F#7alt / B-9 E7b9 ) / (going to the IV chord... Amaj7)
    / Amaj7../ F#-9... B13..... / E69 ............... / G#-7 C#7#9 /
    / F#-9 ... / B13 ................. / E69 C#7#9.... / F#-9 B7b13#9/

    I would probable use a Bb13 as sub for the E7... theory thing but that's not the point....

    The Chord progression or specifically... the CHORD PATTERN or C#-9 F#7 B-9 E7b13 is not a iii - vi - ii - v...

    it's a common jazz CHORD PATTERN.... III VI II V of the target, it's like an approach chord or a secondary Dom. or a related II- of a Dom. Chord. If the tune was in Minor instead...

    The Chord Pattern world harmonically reflect the Minor Tonality... again a 12 bar blue form, 1st 4 bars.

    / E-9 / B7b13 / ( C13 F9 / B-7 E7alt ) / ... to the IV chord or... A-7 / the IV chord is Minor and the Cord Pattern is a III VI II V of the Minor Target Chord, the IV-7./

    I could actually label roman numerals ... bIII-7 bVI7 II-7 V7 of IV-...but most would know or hear because of Minor harmony.

    Personally... it's too bad, the actual theory possibilities or how to play over those standard changes isn't discussed. But as Christian pointed out, most students have enough trouble just getting their technical skills together...No use talking about something you can't play anyway.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    The thing is.. you can do that. But while playing you know very well that it does not do that at all. Since the player knows where it actually goes next, to think it "want's to resolve to Bm7" is just bending reality.
    I didn't think like this before this thread
    Yes emanresu... in the big or macro picture, of course. But part of playing in jazz styles is being able to hear and play...
    many possible musical organizations and usually all going on all the time.

    Generally we would just label that F#7 resolving to B- as a micro Tonal target. Target harmony that musically works within the bigger picture.The better you get performing... or the better you get... understanding, or even both,LOL. The easier it becomes to perform. The music will slow down.... your choices of what to play have relationships with what's been played before, what will be played later, which all related to what has been performed for decades. Which is where Chord Patterns come from, common practice of jazz performers over the years... not what's notated on the lead sheet.

    It's like chords aren't actually notated out note by note, it's somewhat expected that we understand what chord symbols imply in different musical contexts from how they have been performed. Which created common practice and then we try and understand what was done and why, or what was the possible musical organizations can be, which makes it work. Which opens more doors of possible applications of use.... Chord Patterns are simple example of jazz common practice.

    With musical understandings of what is played, you become aware of what can be played. Jazz typically isn't memorize examples, and your now a jazz player. Jazz is more in the directions of what are the possibilities of performing of a tune...usually live. Or not

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Yes emanresu... in the big or macro picture, of course. But part of playing in jazz styles is being able to hear and play...
    many possible musical organizations and usually all going on all the time.

    With musical understandings of what is played, you become aware of what can be played. Jazz typically isn't memorize examples, and your now a jazz player. Jazz is more in the directions of what are the possibilities of performing of a tune...usually live. Or not
    Reg ..at a point of realizing that "I'm a musician" it goes deeper..beyond the mechanical scales/chords patterns/theory..

    In that space between sleep/wake..melodies/harmonies are mine and I understand them..NO..I AM THEM..

    and from a corner booth in a dimly lit bar..a couple listens to a band play..and the man says to the woman.."..see..jazz musicians..they are all crazy.."
    Last edited by wolflen; 09-09-2021 at 09:08 PM.

  7. #31

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    and from a corner booth in a dimly lit bar..a couple listens to a band play..and the man says to the woman.."..see..jazz musicians..they are all crazy.."

    LOL... that's a given. That balance of life is where we realize, we are not the norm.