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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    To be honest a lot of modern jazz harmony post Bill Evans is sort of bass - some sort of cluster of four or notes belonging to the relevant mode - melody note.
    thats so funny , and kinda true !

    well played ....

    ps BTW Anyone here wanna talk about Identity politics , intersectionality ,post modernism post truth and
    gender fluidity etc ?


    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  3. #27

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    the other thing is ....

    beyond the the basic study of ‘music theory’
    (ie the study of building chords in thirds
    two note chords , 3 note chords , 4 note chords , 5 note chords (nine chords) etc etc on up , youall know the drill)

    i’ve got a TON more insights and value out
    of studying how actual tunes go together

    so basically i believe ‘music theory’ is like
    chilli .... a little or a medium amount is ok
    depending on taste , but watch you dont
    have too much !

  4. #28

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    Hey alez... you need a Reference for function to have a Relationship. Function isn't designed to work in isolation.

    If you want to understand and use complicated musical concepts... you usually have musical organization which creates guidelines. The guideline seem to be what your after.

    When you make choices as to what something is and how it functions (with music), your either starting with a REFERENCE...or implying a REFERENCE.

    Obviously... just because functional harmony guidelines define where and how chords are designed to go.... one has to actually go there.

    Maj/Min functional harmony defines guidelines for how notes and chords react to each other... in musical contexts and which notes, (tendency tones), have the most control in that musical context.... all with a tonic reference.

    You can expand those guidelines with use of Modal Concepts in which tendency tones become modal characteristic pitches with different guidelines for tendencies.

    All this is always in regard to a REFERENCE. When you have a reference or imply a reference... your implying guidelines. (general rules... also have a reference ).

    Pingu's point and reference to chili is cool. Personally.... you need performance skills, if you have your technical and performance skills together.... you can use all the theory you want. expand to food analogy etc...

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    ...I've got a TON more insights and value out of studying how actual tunes go together...
    Indubitably !

    My first inclination is to say "Forget About It! All the scales and tricks and Internet Lesson click-bait. At the beginning stage, our first responsibility is to learn the tradition. The master tells the apprentice what to do without giving any theory. The apprentice learns the craft and develops all kinds of questions while working and producing products. Don't ask why, the master won't even speak with you. Eventually the apprentice figures it out alone and "owns" the tricks of the trade. You can't buy experience. The master will assist in secret because they know what you are going through. They went through it, too. They will only foster your education as you assist their shoppe.

    We need to read, play and memorise as many tunes as we can find. Develop a repertoire of 33 Tunes. Your favourite jazz standard tunes. Know how to comp the changes in a few places. Play the melody. Start with the Real Book, BUT memorise the tunes. Only then will you know the proper questions to ask.

    I still know all my "times tables" at my age. My teacher never 'splained why it works. We just memorised it. Today, teachers spend the whole year 'splainin and no one can read OR write OR 'rhythmatik... It's the utmost vanity to ask why when one should simply try. We should do the time first!

    You've got to walk this lonesome valley
    You've got to walk it by yourself
    Nobody else can walk it for you
    You've got to walk it by yourself.

    Jesus walked this lonesome valley
    And he had to walk it by Himself
    Nobody else could walk it for Him
    He had to walk it by Himself.

    You must go and stand your trials
    You have to stand it by yourself
    Nobody else can stand it for you
    You have to stand it by yourself.

    Historically, Jazz is considered by most to be an aural tradition, gleaned from others while young and maintained through life by playing often with your "cadre" of musical associates in the root cellar. Tunes were rarely played from the written word, unless one was woodshedding by themselves in the barn. There was no-time for tyros on the band-stand.

    Life in 1900 was fraught with hardships and boredom. Impromptu Sports & Hobbies were an important part of a child's upbringing to provide a medium for passing the time when not busy as they matured into adults. Music was prized by most. Children were taught to play piano, violin and wind instruments. There were no "time vampires" lurking about like video-games and internet-sites to suck off one's valuable time and leave them with nothing gained but the latest propaganda. People amused themselves with whittling and harmonicas while watching the trains arrive. And they got good at music.

    For jazz musicians, it's critical to have a pocket-full of standards handy. One can then sit-in at ease or meet-up with players on trips. Although the Real Book was a tome of awe back in the 70's and it's still indispensable in your library, it's no fun playing with one's nose in a book. Better to feel like flying down a known road. On the other hand, memorising tunes, their changes and melodies, can be a tiring and time consuming process. Life may get in the way, unless one knows how tunes are crafted...

    It behooves a jazz musician to know how tunes are put together, the Mix & Match, the encapsulation of phrases into musical cells. We should know how to think on our feet before claiming to be ready to jump in with an ensemble session, taking a quick gig, attending a studio session, starting with a new group when getting the call from a band that is already working.

    Three Great Books On Tunes & Changes
    (The following information is gleaned from internet reviews and ads, but I have all three books and would recommend them fully to anyone learning standard jazz changes to play tunes. Quoted prices are nominal and approximate. I'm not a seller, I'm a retired reader.)

    Improvising Jazz $15.00 128 pages.
    A great little book by Jerry Coker, 1964.
    A book for all instruments! Fits into your instrument case, and stays there!
    A Vade Mecum at 7.25" x 9.25" x 0.5".

    A smallish book, it looks deceiving, however it can be read over and over and physically kept in your instrument case like a "Strunk & White" for jazz, ready when you want it. Keep it next to your instrument for ready reference, especially at those awkward moments when the ensemble becomes stuck for material to play. There's a vast number of topics presented in this book; a major source material for reference, packed with usable info you'll need time to absorb. A book which can and probably should be read many times.

    Although superseded by larger, more expensive and comprehensive works, its a classic that every jazz musician should own. A gem published in 1964, packed with insight and applicable improv techniques as relevant today as they were 57 years ago. Its language is aimed at beginners, but it's a fun read for musicians at any level.

    An excellent source of unique perspective, advice, and experience from noted jazz musician and educator, Jerry Coker, who focuses not only on how to play, but how to learn and develop further and gain further depth and perspective. Jerry Coker's dedication to jazz education is evident. This book had to be written as an aide-memoire for his first year students.

    An analysis of melody and functional harmony, its one of the first systematic attempts to organize jazz theory. Meant to be an easy-to-follow, self-teaching guide giving insights into jazz improv.

    A comprehensive summary of jazz theory and how it can be applied to various situations, from the solo performer to the band. Very concise writing and technical coverage, a book to check out if other theory books don't "sum it up" well. A lot to take in on the jazz theory side.

    Chapter Topics:
    Outlining major concepts of jazz in band settings: Blues, Harmony, Swing
    Basic theory, such as chords and scales
    Superimposition and altered extensions
    How poly-chords work
    How to employ melody and rhythm and develop an individual melodic style
    How to develop ideas for motifs and modified them in improv.
    How to make a solo interesting to various listeners
    How to approach the first jam session; organising a jazz ensemble session
    How to develop the ear
    How to transcribe from recordings.
    How to combine intellect with spontaneity

    Each chapter has practice ideas at the end: practical exercises and musical examples

    Full-Page Charts that are understandable and clear, showing:
    Possible chord superimpositions
    Possible tone extensions for various chord types
    Applicable scales
    Six common turnarounds
    The dozen variations on 12-Bar changes by substitution
    Suggested Piano LH voicings

    The book is 90% discussion and application with the big Appendix at the end providing 84 characteristic chord progressions (32-Bar tunes) to illustrate the entire discussion. All types of chord changes to practice. Written like boiler plates (See Ralph Patt's Vanilla Tunes Site) they're worth the price of admission, categorised by common features, modulations, starting chords and written in Roman Numeral notation to fit any key. To avoid royalties, it contains only the changes of standard tunes without titles or melodies.

    Appendix D tunes (suggested/guessed at titles, not exact):
    01. Why Not
    02. Our Love is Here To Stay
    03. Chelsea Bridge
    04. Piccadilly
    05. Prelude to A Kiss
    06. Lil' Darlin'
    07. I Cover the Waterfront
    08. Rose Room ( In A Mellow Tone)
    09. Street of Dreams
    10. Undecided
    11. The Chase
    12. Bright Eyes
    13. Opus No.1
    14. Crazy Rhythm
    15. This Can't Be Love
    16. Broadway
    17. It's Almost Like Being in Love
    18. Just Friends
    19. Moonglow
    20. I'll See You in My Dreams
    21. Be My Love
    22. There'll Never Be Another You
    23. Blues (Like Blues For Alice)
    24. Algo Bueno (Woody 'N' You)
    25. I'll Keep Loving You
    26. Best Thing For You is Me
    27. I'm Getting Sentimental Over You
    28. Tour De Force
    29. Stella by Starlight
    30. Good Bait
    31. Get Happy
    32. Topsy
    33. Jeepers Creepers
    34. Tour De Force
    35. Five Bros.
    36. Airegin
    37. I Didn't Know About You
    38. Star Eyes
    39. Taking A Chance On Love
    40. Broadway
    41. Polka Dots & Moon Beams
    42. S' Wonderful
    43. Once In A While
    44. Tea For Two
    45. Prelude To A Kiss
    46. Baubles, Bangles And Beads
    47. Godchild
    48. Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea
    49. If You Could See Me Now
    50. Parisian Thoroughfare
    51. Lover
    52. I'll Remember April
    53. Long Ago And Far Away
    54. Autumn In New York
    55. China Boy
    56. Fairyland
    57. Idaho
    58. My Old Flame
    59. Opus No.1
    60. Chelsea Bridge
    61. Easy Living
    62. Darn That Dream
    63. Half-Nelson (Ladybird)
    64. For Heaven's Sake
    65. In A Sentimental Mood
    66. Smoke Get In Your Eyes
    67. Best Thing For You Is Me
    68. If I Had You
    69. They Can't Take That Away From Me
    70. I Never Knew (Morning Fun)
    71. These Foolish Things
    72. My One And Only Love
    73. Rosetta (Yardbird Suite)
    74. Don't You Know I Care
    75. Gone With the Wind
    76. Tangerine
    77. I Love You
    78. Too Marvelous for Words
    79. How High the Moon
    80. Tune-Up
    81. Solar
    82. Laura
    83. Cherokee
    84. Star Eyes

    PS: Also check out these tunes with:
    Ralph Patt, Guitar Guy, New Orleans Jam Book, Jim Bottorff, Song Trellis, iReal Pro, Ted Greene,

    Jerry Coker co-authored a larger, more expensive book entitled Hearin' the Changes - Dealing with Unknown Tunes by Ear 1997 $30.00. Having both of these books is a real treat for blowers and compers who chase the changes.

    This larger book is the definitive study of changes from hundreds of carefully chosen tunes from the jazz musician's repertoire, comparing them, linking them by commonalities, and codifying harmonic traits that clarify our understanding of how progressions work.

    A means to learn and memorize tunes more easily, it's key to acquiring the skill to recognise and cognise changes by ear. It explains how we hear and understand music, establishes methods by which we can learn to develop our musical hearing more efficiently, and addresses the importance of attitudes that affect the learning process. It also offers encouragement, suggests ways to continue study, and ways to personalize the materials beyond what is presented in this book.

    Appendix A
    Lists the 500 tunes used in this study, indicating which tunes contain more than one harmonic trait or cell, to facilitate more efficient choices of tunes to learn. Gathering "Like" tunes together as you develop your repertoire.

    Appendix B
    Valuable tips for ear training.

    Appendix C
    Charts or "road maps" for ten tunes, in Roman Numeral Degree Notation, showing how changes can be more easily understood, memorized, played, and transposed to any key.

    Another great book in this vein is:

    Jamey Aebersold Jazz Volume 76, How To Learn Tunes: The Quick and Easy Method for Remembering Melodies and Chord Changes
    by David Baker 1997 $30.00

    A quick and easy method for learning and memorizing melodies and changes to any tune in any key with the most commonly used changes. It teaches how to recognize and remember cells visually and aurally. The book, CD and supplement provide composition that will have you memorizing and understanding how changes work. Leave the fake books behind? Well.. Bit a quick glance of the chord chart at a jam session may be all you'll need after digesting this book.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-18-2021 at 12:17 PM.

  6. #30

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    Now... that's a post SN. cool.

    I would only add... even Jerry doesn't really get past basic old school definitions and explanations of what Function is and how it can work with Jazz. He does make point that the Reference of Function, he generally referred to or implied root or a pitch, doesn't change with use of subs, deceptive cadences etc... anyway like alex was trying to define how E7 is just a diminished or leading tone etc...

    Sometimes you need to get past the Tritone... open the modal door and try and get past the room being a closet. It can become a different world... Or not.

  7. #31

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    I think one way to look at harmony is that the melody and the bass line contain all the essential musical information. Whatever you put in the middle voices are harmonic colors, rhythmic embellishments and voice leading. Anything can work, it's just trial and error (the middle).
    Last edited by Tal_175; 05-20-2021 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #32

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    x 7 x 5 3 7 ......... this chord does really sound like Cma9
    I came up with this fingering:

    x 7 10 7 x 7

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnoL
    I came up with this fingering:

    x 7 10 7 x 7
    That's an alternative. I don't like it for pick playing for obvious reasons.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    ps BTW Anyone here wanna talk about Identity politics , intersectionality ,post modernism post truth and
    gender fluidity etc ?
    To the 'Roman Numerals' thread with you.
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-21-2021 at 06:01 AM.