1. #1
    Del Sasser guitar comping from Jamey Aebersold`s Cannonbal Adderley.

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  3. #2

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    You know what? I transcribed the compin' on an Abersold play along of "Autumn Leaves" a while back--taught me a lot.

    Who plays piano on this one? Might be cool to transcribe the Abersold and transcribe the comp off the actual record. Compare the two.

    An old teacher once told me that getting piano voicings on guitar is cool, but the real reason to transcribe piano is for the rhythm. I used to rally against his words, but now I think he was right. Cannonball always had happenin pianists in his bands from Bobby Timmons, Victor Feldman, to Joel Zawinul and Hal Galper. Cannonball could sound great alone on a stage in Carnegie Hall, but his bandmates were no slouch either.

    That all said, very tasteful and cool what you pulled from that Abersold track. Might be more worthwhile to transcribe what the rhythm section was doing rather than use it solely as a play along.

  4. #3
    Thank you for the tips. Indeed, the rhythm section would be an excellent source of information, both comping and understanding the harmony itself. I was able to observe some nuances between original recording and play along, also some between the sheet music and the recording by Jayme Abersold, for my perception. Cannonball was a master of live sessions and the sense of structure that the bandmates maintained during long improvisations was incredible. Such fantastic players like Sam Jones, Louis Hayes, Walter Booker, Paul Chambers, Cedar Walton and so.

  5. #4

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    M --

    You're not locked-in rhythmically. For example, the third phrase of the "A" section is always late. And as your solo starts I can feel the tension of 'not locked-in.'

    Rhythm is a key to music and it is the key to jazz. If you're rhythmically locked-in and you play a 'wrong' note people will go, 'Wow, mahn, that's outside, it's so deep.' If you play all the right notes and you're not not locked-in, people will go, 'Wow, mahn, I like what you're trying to play.'

    There are two ways to work on this and I recommend using both.

    The first is, listen harder to the people (or here, the track) you're playing with. Maestro, you are playing withRonnie Mathews (p); Sam Jones (b) and Louis Hayes (d). At least two of them were Cannonball Adderley's own rhythm section so you can take it as a fact that they are locked-in.

    The second is, work with a metronome. Play quarter notes, play eighth notes, play with the metronome being synchopated. Once your pulse is locked-in play the head to this tune with a quarter beat and then with a half-note beat and then with a whole-note beat.

    Keep going, M. A little bit of work on locking-in can yield a lot of progress!

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
    M --

    You're not locked-in rhythmically. For example, the third phrase of the "A" section is always late. And as your solo starts I can feel the tension of 'not locked-in.'

    Rhythm is a key to music and it is the key to jazz. If you're rhythmically locked-in and you play a 'wrong' note people will go, 'Wow, mahn, that's outside, it's so deep.' If you play all the right notes and you're not not locked-in, people will go, 'Wow, mahn, I like what you're trying to play.'

    There are two ways to work on this and I recommend using both.

    The first is, listen harder to the people (or here, the track) you're playing with. Maestro, you are playing withRonnie Mathews (p); Sam Jones (b) and Louis Hayes (d). At least two of them were Cannonball Adderley's own rhythm section so you can take it as a fact that they are locked-in.

    The second is, work with a metronome. Play quarter notes, play eighth notes, play with the metronome being synchopated. Once your pulse is locked-in play the head to this tune with a quarter beat and then with a half-note beat and then with a whole-note beat.

    Keep going, M. A little bit of work on locking-in can yield a lot of progress!
    Hi Sam, you're right, it's a essencial part of the practicing to get inside the rhythm section and keep the changes working. It's quite a job be in time and with the changes on hand. Thanks for the tips!

  7. #6

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    Sam has a great point. I find myself working on my rhythm and time more and more these days. Rhythm, time, articulation, and dynamics.

    Those ingredients are often over looked in the "jazz guitar learning community"--but I would include them as part of your chops. They add spice and flavor to anything that you play on any instrument in any genre. Classical violin? Listen to Jascha Heifetz play a concerto, then listen to a star college student playing the same piece. Same notes. Same amount of technique/ chops. Jascha plays it better because of rhythm, time, articulation, and dynamics.

    My mentor had me transcribe comps in the past. Bobby Timmons playing comping behind Lee Morgan on "Moanin". Wynton Kelly compin' behind Hank Mobley on "Remember" or... behind anyone for that matter. Ton of people to pay attention to just for comping. Told me that the voicings were great to cop, but the secret was in the rhythm and HOW you play the rhythm. Sing it. See if you can sing the attack and rhythm exactly. What is loud? What is soft? What is long? What is short? Where does the comping phrase begin? Where does the phrase end? How do you know? What about transcribing some drummers and do as they do... but make it work on guitar? Philly Jo? Max? Elvin? Connie Kay?

    That type of stuff. Get down to the details, but don't focus all your energy on the notes... focus more on the HOW instead of the what
    Last edited by PickingMyEars; 03-07-2021 at 03:47 PM.

  8. #7

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    Yea mauri, that'd a fun tune. nice sound and solo sounded fun, was nice use of blues.

    yea like sam said.... there was no rhythm, but there is also more than rhythm. Just as important is how you use rhythm.
    The tempo sounds like it just to fast for you, right.

    It's nice to see you posting about comping, I've been saying for years... that is much more important than blazing solo etc... But Comping is also like soloing.

    The 1st step is to understand and feel FORM. The AABA is just the basic reference, where you start. How to break down the sections and how they relate to the overall form is also just as important to being able to lockin.

    Generally after the overall rhythmic organization or Feels of tune and each section are set... your comping is just like taking a solo.... you play lead lines. Lead lines are just melodic figures on top of the the changes, they help create the Harmonic motion... (chord grooves) so you don't just play backing tract vanilla changes.
    Lead line are just like soloing with licks that help and interact with the soloist. They give life, harmonic and melodic life to your comping Rhythmic feels.

    Don't take this as a knock on your playing, very few guitarist can cover. I don't really think I remember any players on this forum really covering. It's difficult, like soloing with chords and you need to be able to listen and react with the soloist and rhythm section.... in real time. (disclaimer... my memory sucks, if someone reads this and has posted examples of comping...I apologize )

    Anyway.... the way most start is to work on short chord patterns. Like and of the 4 bar sections of the tune. Just vamp the changes and develop a rhythmic groove, then start working on the melody on top, the line can obviously move around within the changes.

    What you'll start to hear and see is that there is space in between the stronger accent points. The accent points are usually just the rhythmic patterns that repeat, they become the strong points. You then have the space between that repeating pattern which becomes the weak area, where you use more changes to create another part that supports the Strong pattern.... I have always just called this the weak side. It's just another area that you can expand the harmony, the chords to imply the strong repeating harmonic Rhythm...the locking rhythmic groove.

    Yea you then need to also see the bigger picture, the section and tune etc... but that becomes easier once you can make a smaller section lock. In the tune the 4 bar phrases.

    The B section can break the pattern, like above the feel is slowed down....

    I can tell you you'll have a lot more fun comping in rhythm section as compared to taking solos. At least I have over the years.
    also great comments from pickingmyears

  9. #8

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    I think that a key issue is to be able to hear where your time is compared to where it should be.

    Apparently, it's pretty easy, while you're playing, to think you're on it, and then, when you listen to a recording, you can hear that you're not.

    The optimal way to improve is to play with a great rhythm section and then record it and critique it later.

    My experience was that stuff I thought was okay at the time turned out to be cringe-worthy when I listened back.

    Gradually, my ability to hear the difference improved.

    If this doesn't make sense, I'd suggest checking out some of Reg's youtube videos. He has top level time feel on every note or chord he plays. Try imitating that.

    Another thing that might be helpful is practicing with a backing track while recording into a DAW. Then, you have the ability to see the wave form. There is a limit to the benefit of a visual approach to an aural medium, but it can improve one's appreciation for where a note is with respect to the click or beat.