Adding intros and endings to standards

[Christian Miller]

It’s a good rule of thumb to get started. In common with most things in music it’s far from ironclad

[pcjazz]

One of the more obvious problems with asserting that intros must end on V is that many well-known standards don’t start on I.

[AllanAllen]

Is Mickey Baker suggesting you do this with a singer? I think we’re comparing apples to oranges. The instrumentalist knows where the note is on the instrument a singer has to go by ear.

[Avery Roberts]

Is Mickey Baker suggesting you do this with a singer?

Maybe, maybe not. He has considerable experience, as a studio musician, and with working with singers. So I doubt he would be immune to the needs of a vocalist.

From his biography in book 1: "In the last few years Mickey has established himself as an outstanding popular recording artist, doing most of the Jazz, Rhythm and Blues recordings for RCA Victor, Columbia, Decca, Capitol, Atlantic and other recording companies. Mickey has worked with such famous artists as, ... Ella Fitzgerald ... Dinah Washington ... " My note: that's circa 1955.

Edit: (Jan 29 2023) Another thought that has come across my head is that singers should be trained musicians. A good singer given a note on an instrument should be able to sing a note at any interval above or below that note. It's called "relative pitch". A good singer should also have very good time. As good as any instrumentalist.

I once had the task of auditioning singers. And I was surprised that almost all of them had no training in music at all! I would tell them (in my usual gentle manner of course) "you need to take lessons". Well you couldn't imagine the insult that arose from that simple statement. I tried to explain: "Look, drummers, guitarists, pianists, horn players etc. need to take lessons, why not singers?". Some took my advice, some didn't.

Cheers - Avery Roberts

[Avery Roberts]

One of the more obvious problems with asserting that intros must end on V is that many well-known standards don’t start on I.

Agreed! There is also the situation where the melody does not start on the tonic but the harmony does start on the tonic. So yes a "one size fits all" approach certainly will not do. The introduction really has to be tailored for the particular situation at hand.

I think in his course Mickey Baker was starting with showing what he felt was the most common situation and then working outwards from there. That's the only way I can see that his assertions would make sense.

Cheers - Avery Roberts

[Avery Roberts]

Here are 10 introductions by Jens Larsen.

Cheers - Avery Roberts

[Christian Miller]

You won’t find many cast iron rules in music beyond ‘use yer flipping ears m8’ and ‘play Dancing Queen if you want to surreptitiously clear a dance floor’

everything else is a RULE OF THUMB. Including all the theory stuff people like to go on about as if it’s some sort of Cosmic Truth instead of stuff that may turn out helpful. (Pythagoras has a lot to answer for haha)

Older players like Mickey (and younger players who do more than hang out on the web) had ‘street smarts’ drawn from experience and advice from mentors and older pros…. they knew that that intro rule wouldn’t work every time, but might prove useful nonetheless.

If you want a rule that works every time, maybe give music a miss, eh?